Book-writing with Writer

users
#21

I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on my tablets. All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper one that works best for tablet reading. I choose something along the page size used for paper-back books. So I format the page to about 4 by 7 inches, with a small margin size. Then I export it to a PDF file. Of course, if I want to create an ePub document format instead, for Kindle or Nook, then I use an external package called "Calibre". I run it on a Ubuntu/Linux system, but it come in Windows as well. [if I remember correctly]

I also can save the book file via printing to CUPS-PDF and making sure that my exact fonts are embedded properly. LO 4.1.x release notes shows the "embed font" as a checkbox option.

There use to be an extension to export to ePub, but I do not know if it is a good one or not.

SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats and use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or book that works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets. For Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those glyph/letter combinations available. But I never saw the need to use them. I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or printed one. There are fonts specifically created for their readability for books. Most text books tend to use such fonts, as well as physical books you buy.

#22

Couldn't agree more.

I've found the best way to start is write short document consisting of all the parts you need.
Learn the appropriate Writer terms and functions.
Get everything to format properly down to the last little item.

Save your template and your good to go.

By the time your done with it, you'll understand your own created format, that it becomes second nature.

Then write your book.

The longest document I've done was 64 pages from and old Lotus Wordpro that I had to totally redo in Writer.

I am pretty happy with the results.

Hope this helps.

#23

I have heard rave reviews about Scrivener, but was not impressed when I
looked at it, but then I don't usually write books...... It looked
very robust and comprehensive, but a bit complex as far as setting up
your templates, but I suppose the same can be said of writer.

There is also a latex lab for google docs which I have played with if
you want to be that granular....

#24

Kracked_P_P wrote:

I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on my tablets. All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper one that works best for tablet reading. I choose something along the page size used for paper-back books. So I format the page to about 4 by 7 inches, with a small margin size. Then I export it to a PDF file. Of course, if I want to create an ePub document format instead, for Kindle or Nook, then I use an external package called "Calibre". I run it on a Ubuntu/Linux system, but it come in Windows as well. [if I remember correctly]

I've done the same thing by formatting the page size of a PDF file to fit my Kindle screen. Of course, with PDF, you lose a lot of the functionality of the Kindle (or Nook), such as scalable fonts and the continuous flow of text without page breaks, etc. For that, you need the e-book formats (Mobi for Kindle, Epub for Nook). This is where my OCD kicks in for I've found that most programs, such as LO, and even LyX and Markdown, lose some formatting in the translation to HTML, which is the basis of Epub. Of all the programs I've tried, Atlantis does the best job of retaining my formatting and it exports directly to Epub and Mobi formats. I've used Calibre and find it really good, but again, my results have been spotty. So far, I haven't been able to get a good conversion of a PDF to Mobi with Calibre (maybe it's user error on my part). There's a lot to Calibre and I haven't fully explored it yet.

SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats and use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or book that works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets.

I do the same with Atlantis and export directly to Epub and Mobi formats.

For Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those glyph/letter combinations available. But I never saw the need to use them. I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or printed one. There are fonts specifically created for their readability for books. Most text books tend to use such fonts, as well as physical books you buy.

If you're saving to an e-book format, ligatures aren't necessary, nor is margin justification or true typographic features. But, if you're going to print that puppy, you want it to have all the typographic excellence you can get and, right now at least, that excellence is lacking with typical word processors. For print excellence, you can't beat LaTeX.

Virgil

#25

With documents of under 500 pages, less than 100 images, and less than
100 tables, MasterDocuments may not be worthwhile.

With documents of 5,000+ pages, several thousand images, several
thousand tables, and assorted other objects, system performance takes a
nose-dive, when MasterDocuments are not used.

Note: The biggest issue/bug with 5,000+ page documents, is that LibO
has (¿had?) a limit of 2^64 style changes per document.

jonathon

#26

Yes, if you fix the page and font size to what works for you, then it may not be right for others. Well, I still can take the TXT file and convert it to a ePub file. But, the Calibre package [Ubuntu 12.04] and gives me both Nook and Kindle page formatting under the ePub exporting, for whatever reasons. I have the ability to use both Kindle and Nook apps on both of my tablets, even though one is a Nook. I have seen a Kindle app so you can read your Kindle books from your Amazon "library" on you Nook tablet. I have not tried that, but my old tablet had the Kindle app on it and I was reading some books bought/downloaded from Amazon. Mostly free ones though. Will see later if I can read them on my Nook..

For printed books, I still will go with the "easy to read book fonts" and some seem to not need the ligatures. The only thing might be needed is some spacing options between words and letters for fully-justified text. Jean Hollis Weber, our main documentation editor, can tell you how much a pain that can be to get the lines and paragraphs to look "right" with fully right and left justified text within a document. Hyphenation helps but not completely in that department.

Actually, I was looking at a new book and I was shocked that the printed paper-back book cost almost $5 LESS than the Nook and Kindle file version[s]. You would expect the printed book to cost more, and but not the e-book file to cost more. Well, since some people claim printed books are "dead", and no one would want to buy a printed copy, someone decided to make the e-book versions more expensive, so the publisher could make a really big profit. I doubt the author is getting more money out of such a sale. He would get the same income per book, no matter what the format; hard-cover, paper-back, or e-book.

#27

"Pablo Dotro":
I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take the
form of a self published, free ebook. And while I have created very
long, complex documents before, I have never formatted them as a book.

But I find that there is a gap between
the techniques described there for working with templates, styles and
master documents... and the actual craft needed to make them work.

The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign.

#28

Since you seem to have a similar view to me, regarding major project, here's my thoughts...

That similar view is to search out and find the right tools before actually starting the project. I've got some personal ideas that need some kind of document output, so I'm looking at, or at least trying to look at, all the available alternatives to the ubiquitous office suites, which may or may not be the best tools for the job.

First, I've only had time to skim the posts, I may have misread or simply missed something here and there.

Lyx has been mentioned. I just took a quick look at it, and was dismayed to find it has, essentially, zero support for .doc/docx files. And, if memory serves, few export formats if any. :frowning: Why, I don't know, just about every other text program I've looked at does. :slight_smile: So it's been removed from my computer... for now. LOL Maybe there is a way to convert it's files, I did not do any searching for something.

Someone mentioned Scrivener. I'm in the process of using the demo, off and on, right now. Even if you don't use this program for the final output, I'd recommend it solely from the aspect of the user's ability to keep all his research notes within your Scrivener project, from PDF files to personal notes to web pages to images. Yes, it will open web pages from within Scrivener, no need to open your browser to view them.

A plus side for you, it would seem, is it directly supports the eBook format. I know nothing about the ebook format, but if that's where you are really going, I'd at least look at this.

At the moment, my biggest personal concern is how it would handle images in the final output. I have not investigated this yet, but need to.

It's not expensive, IMO, $45 US. I do plan on purchasing it simply because the ability to put all my research in the project where it's seems to be extremely easy to access. Even if the final output is done some other way. One advantage of my Mac, the Mac natively produces PDF files, but I don't know how good the output will be.

There are a number of Scrivener tutorials on YouTube, and it comes with a 500+ page manual, all done in Scrivener. Yes, you heard me right, a real live manual in PDF form. And tutorials are built into the program.

Someone mentioned DTP. I.E. a program like Adobe Pagemaker. Which, you obviously don't want to purchase for this.

There is a free DTP program called Scribus, http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus

The Lite version of Calamus is shareware, http://www.calamus.net/calamus/lite.php I used the paid, commercial version on the Atari platform years ago, liked it, but haven't used any DTP software for years.

Serif.com has a reasonably priced DTP program, PagePlus X7, http://www.serif.com/pageplus/

Whether any of these programs do much, if anything, for ebooks I do not know.
And neither will you if you don't check them out.

I had not heard of yWriter, so I'll have to check that out. Have the page in my browser as I write this post.

If/when you settle on something, I wouldn't mind knowing why you picked one over the another. The email address on this post is valid, please use it if you wish.

#29

"Pablo Dotro":
I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take the
form of a self published, free ebook.

please dowload the eLAIX extension, there is a manuel for how to start a ebook with LO

#30

Urmas wrote:

The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign.

You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher.

Virgil

#31

The poster might want to look at this page.

http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html

In the list, there is information about some publishers and services, with some references to e-book self publishing. IT might be worth a look.

If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there may be some good information there to guide through the process.

#32

Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid.

Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the "hipiers" link suggested below.

Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book, "Writers Tune-up Manual."

Virgil

#33

Hi :slight_smile:
I think ani-privacy is an array of automated processes that is waaay out of anyone's control now.  Just click on the "Spam" button and let your filters learn what to block and what to accept.  People love to share intimate details of their life with everyone across the planet (Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking is enormously popular).  We have actively encouraged companies to collect information on all of us.  Just avoid thinking of it as spooky and let them drown under the weight of the data.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#34

hipiers.com does not send out spam emails, or it should not since the owner of the domain is against spam as much as we are.

I do not know anything about Scrivener or its web site.

Did you do a Google or Amazon search for "writer info", a book search, or some other one that might make you think you are a writer of some type of book or manual? If you did, you may have triggered a advertisement from Amazon.

When I look at my weather site, it displays advertisement based on my searches on Amazon, Google, and even Tigerdirect.com [computer and electronics web store].

Of course, you could always use the "Private Window" option in Mozilla Firefox to reduce your web footprint and not give, the web sites you visit, your info that is stored in your bowser, such as email address and other things you do not want given out. Every browser I know of has personal information stored in it. The trick is to make your browser not have this info available to the sites you visit. Firefox has the "private window" option. [File > New Private Window].

#35

Hi :slight_smile:
Errr, just my own personal opinion of course and on "a bad hair day"

Try watching "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", particularly the scene with the peasants working in the field and claiming to be "an autonomous collective" and then admitting their lord was out to lunch. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Kracked_P_P---webmaster <webmaster@krackedpress.com>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" <users@global.libreoffice.org>
Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 13:40
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer

Hi :slight_smile:
I think that "Private Window" is based on a "standards" agreement that went through the US Senate and was heavily lobbied against by hefty US companies that were grumbling that they needed to invade everyone's privacy in order to be able to sell their products and make America great (they meant the US, but obviously they ignore the southern half of the continent and the 50% of the remaining land mass that is Canada).

The result is that websites are sent an extra bit of information about you and that bit is your intention to be anonymous and that information, along with all the rest, can be logged by whichever site you visit.  Some governments (ie not just in the US) agencies see the desire to be anonymous (ie a "loner") as suspicious so once they have figured out how to do it then they might put you higher up

any lists they might keep (if they can handle the volume of data) and, of course, companies can just ignore the request for privacy or even see it as a challenge.

Individuals 'rights' versus corporate profits.  Which tends to win these days?

Outside of the USA such things are normal and common-place and have been going on for centuries.  Occasionally one country or other produces a piece of paper that claims individuals have rights but those usually turn out to be "business as usual" fairly quickly or even plummet into an even worse situation for some time. 
Regards from 
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster <webmaster@krackedpress.com>
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 12:58
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer

hipiers.com does not send out spam emails, or it should not since the
owner of the domain is against spam as much as we are.

I do not know anything about Scrivener or its web site.

Did you do a Google or Amazon search for "writer info", a book search, 
or some other one that might make you think you are a writer of some
type of book or manual?  If you did, you may have triggered a
advertisement from

Amazon.

When I look at my weather site, it displays advertisement based on my
searches on Amazon, Google, and even Tigerdirect.com [computer and
electronics web store].

Of course, you could always use the "Private Window" option in Mozilla
Firefox to reduce your web footprint and not give, the web sites you
visit, your info that is stored in your bowser, such as email address
and other things you do not want given out.  Every browser I know of has
personal information stored in it.  The trick is to make your browser
not have this info available to the sites you visit.  Firefox has the
"private window" option. [File > New Private Window].

Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid.

Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the
"hipiers" link suggested

below.

Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book,
"Writers Tune-up Manual."

Virgil

Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer

Urmas wrote:

The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write
will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most
likely InDesign.

You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for
final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be
creating a "self

published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking

#36

For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself
to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel
Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project.

As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the
original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray
tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter
and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page
novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long
for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of
the formatting codes inserted by WP.

I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect
*does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the
dozens of different document processing applications I have used over
the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring
strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it
fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel).

Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer
in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you
want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even
use it for letters.

Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup"
style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and
page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have
their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

#37

Wolfgang,

I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. When I used WP, everything was very typewriter-like, with commands being inserted in a linear fashion until they were changed by a later command. Hence the reason <reveal codes> was so essential with WP.

Virgil

#38

"As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document.

#39

I'll reiterate this again -- if you're self publishing (and you intend on doing so with Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, KOBO, etc... you will have to convert whatever file you create into .mobi or .epub format. The best tool for that task is Calibre. And the best way to do that is to save a doc as an .html file (in LO), import it into Calibre, and then covert it. That's what I've done for every novel I've published.

#40

Virgil ,

the secret of styles for ebook publishing is the "OutLineLevel" you can uses any style but change your paragraph styles to the correct OutlineLevel

TITEL = OutlineLevel 1

             Subtitel = OutlineLevel 2

                     Subsubtitel = OutlineLevel 3 etc...to 9