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I cannot get to shows, do to travel/mobility issues, but it would be
nice to find some good Tux items online from "good quality" vendors.
One day, I hope there will be artisans that will work on a good mascot
for LO.
Of course, I once placed the Writer icon in the "belly" of a Tux image.
I wish I had your experience with Linux. All of my efforts with it on my Sony VAIO laptop have been met with frustration.
I recently shared my frustrations with LO on both Ubuntu and Mint (through "Wubi" installations) not recognizing the libhyphen hyphenator even though it shows in my file system. When Tom suggested that Wubi wasn't the best way to go, I uninstalled my Wubi installation and began to experiment with several live CDs to see how different distributions worked. Here's what I found:
openSuse Live CD: LO worked well with the hyphenator, but it wouldn't play Youtube videos.
LinuxMint Live CD: It played YouTube videos, but did not recognize the LO hyphenator. Version 15 also won't run a Bible program that I tried to install.
Ubuntu Live CD: Same as Mint, but it runs the Bible program.
Debian Live CD: It played YouTube Videos, it recognized the LO hyphenator, but on my laptop, it didn't recognize my wireless modem adaptor. I had to plug in an ethernet cord to access the Web.
Puppy Linux: I really like Puppy. It runs entirely in RAM, and is lightning quick, but is obviously very sparse, with "Gnome Office", i.e., AbiWord, Gnumeric, etc. rather than LO. But it runs YouTube videos just fine.
I tried both Ubuntu and Mint on a jump drive where I could actually save settings and install additional programs. I found the software installation process curious compared to Windows. With Windows, I download the latest file, double click on it in "Downloads" and it installs. With Linux, I can use Software Manager, but the versions on the GUI repositories are woefully out of date. For example, I use ReText, a markdown editor which is currently on version 4.1, but the version at the Ubuntu/Mint repositories was in the 2.x range. To get a more recent version meant going to the command line "Sudo apt" this, "Sudo apt" that, etc. Hardly intuitive after nearly three decades of GUI computing.
I then tried to "do it right" and dual boot install the Debian system. Yes, I know that Debian is less user friendly than the other distros, but I liked its totally open source attitude and relative simplicity, even if it meant using the command line more. I was willing to learn.
I found a great YouTube video walking through the dual boot install, and I followed it to a "T". It worked great, I rebooted into Debian and all was good. I then rebooted into Windows and, again, all was good. I then tried to reboot into Debian again, and it wouldn't boot. It hung up with a message saying it stopped waiting for a "thermal-module.sys" or something like that. I then got a blank screen with a clock cursor that I could move, but nothing else happened. I tried rebooting several times, and the same thing happened each time. I then read online that a recent version of the Linux Kernel has been overheating some laptops; I don't know if that was my issue, but it scared me. I never dreamed that an OS could actually do physical harm to my hardware.
I realized I would have to go online to a great Linux community (and I mean "great" sincerely) to find out what was wrong. I'm sure that, given enough time, I could figure it out. But, at some point, I decided that actually computing was more important than trying to make it a supplemental OS working. And, for me, it would always be supplemental as I need some programs that only Windows offers.
All of my Windows versions from 1.0 (yes, I had Windows 1.0) through Windows 7 have worked well for me, and I have never paid for a Windows OS, except as it was included in the price of my computers. In my experience, LO has always worked better on my Windows systems than any of the LO systems I have ever tried.
I mean no disrespect to Linux or penguins. I honestly share your passion for Open Source. I use FOSS programs whenever I can. As I have stated before, I *really* want to like Linux, but every time I have tried it, either with a Windows installer, Live CD or even "true" dual boot (I once had a true Ubuntu dual boot), I run into a some roadblock that requires a large investment of time to chase down. I feel that, with Linux, I'll spend more time maintaining my OS than actually getting work done.
So, I'll continue to use Windows until it stops working or MS comes up with some licensing scheme that suddenly turns me into a criminal by just using their program.
Virgil
I run Ubuntu 12.04 on my systems, including dual booting.
Mint has some network printer issues that Ubuntu did not.
I use the dual booting on a DELL and a Gateway laptop - DELL and older
slower dual core, with the Gateway a newer and faster dual core. The
only booting problem I had was when I upgraded from Vista to Win7 Pro,
it messed the dual booting ability till I ran a Utility disc.
I choose Ubuntu since it was the only one - 9.xx days that worked with
my old HP laptop's sound system from the Live CD. I wish that Ubuntu
did not drop the Live CD and DVD diferences. Now the Live disc is not
large at all, not compared to the 12.04/12.10 versions.
I choose MATE desktop to work as the GNOME 2.x did with Ubuntu 10.04's
version. I do not like Unity at all.
For me, the LO hyphation system works fine. I run version 4.05 for LO
and 12.04 for Ubuntu right now for my default system.
I started with DOS but did not get to use Windows till 3.x. I saw 2.x
but never used it. I use to install Windows 95 and 98 from floppy
drives onto a IBM PC that had a hard drive of no more than 20 to 40 MB,
let alone GB.
But I got into Linux from the point that I could not afford to purchase
new hardware or any new software, so I had to use old hardware and find
free sources for the software. In the end, I even when to the free OS
of Ubuntu.
As for overheating laptops, I tend to get them in the "heavy side" since
the thicker ones tend to have a bit better heat sink and fan options to
keep then laptops cooler. Actually, for Windows try SpeedFan utility to
see how hot the various parts of you laptop is getting. My newer one is
a lot coller than the older/slower one. Of course that old dual core
DELL was not "powerful enough" to create movie DVDs out of MP4 and AVI
file, according to DELL's tech people, even though the single core HP
laptop, 2 years older than that, could to this without any problems.
But as I stated, the heavier, and the thicker, the laptop is, more
lickly it would run cooler than these new super thin ones.
As for the Repositories, well some distros are way behind others for
package versions. Debian seems to be father behind than most others
that are updated regularly. I run Ubuntu 12.04 LTS [long term support]
and 13.10 is to come out this month. Some of the repository packages
are not up-to-date as the 13.04 versions, but I should be using 12.04LTS
till 14.04LTS comes out, or at least on most of my Ubuntu systems.
Of course, you do not need to stick with the repository packages, for
software like LO, since there are other newer version available for
download from the software developers. I have only once stuck with a
repository version for LO, and that was for only a few months. Actually
I will update my desktop to 4.0.6 when it comes out, while one of my
laptops will have 4.1.2 on one of its boots, maybe the Windows boot,
like I have 4.1.1 right now.
Hi 
Most versions of Gnu&Linux (Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Redhat, openSuSE) all include a default set of programs. Often the same program in each one. For example most of the examples have Firefox and LibreOffice by default.
However, you don't have to stick with the defaults. You can install other programs and if you feel the need then you can uninstall programs.
By default most versions of Gnu&Linux (lets just call them distros) have a set of "repos" (=repositories) which are a bit like vast warehouses of programs and other software. Typically it's all been tweaked or at least checked to make sure it kinda runs on your distro. Again you don't have to stick with the defaults. You can add other repos. Ubuntu has all sorts of fancy names for different types, such as "PPA"s, but almost all distros have extra repos that you can add to a default install in order to have a wider choice of software packages.
A typical reason might be to deal with copyright issues. Some countries have very strict laws trying to prevent people from using certain things while other countries are more about individual people's 'right' to freedom and liberty. So in the USA it might be illegal to give people codecs that would allow them to play Hollywood movies, or even YouTube videos. In other countries they might not be so restrictive. So a lot of distros split a lot of the multimedia stuff into a separate repo run by a separate projects. Those projects then attempt to warn users to check the laws of their own country to make sure they wouldn't be breaking the law by using that repo. If those projects did get tied up in courts due to bogus claims it wouldn't affect the main distro.
Luckily for me i live in one of those countries that is quite happy to let people watch quite a lot but not happy enough to let us watch absolutely everything. So, for Ubuntu or Mint i add the "Medibuntu" repos. For Debian i would add their multimedia repos and similarly for openSuSE and Redhat. Then whichever distro i was using i would install VLC and mplayer to make sure i got all the codecs i'm ever likely to need (although i probably have to promise to make sure i don't use certain ones or at least hold my hand in front of my face, or something).
The odd one out is Puppy. It's a whole lot more painful to install anything in Puppy so it's much better to stick with the defaults for everything. On the plus side it is much easier to create a fork that has slightly different defaults. These are then released through their community in much the same way LO has pages and pages of Extensions. Some of those forks have quite huge communities in their own right. Instead of calling them "forks" they call them "Puplets" just to be cute (anyone got a bucket hand?). I'm fairly certain there is at least 1 puplet that has LibreOffice by default but probably by now there are tons of them.
Regards from
Tom
Hi
Several different issues all in one thread.
Whenever you install Windows or upgrade, such as from Xp to Win7 the Windows installer kindly 'fixes' the MBR to point at the Windows boot-loader (NTldr). Windows can't see non-Windows stuff and even has trouble with other versions of Windows. So the Windows boot-loader only lets you boot into the version of Windows that you have just installed (or upgraded to).
Whenever you install almost any other OS they tend to default to 'fix' your MBR to point to their own boot-loader (usually Grub or Lilo). That automatically finds all OSes on your system, even ones on other drives or even on any usb-sticks that happen to be plugged in at the time. It creates a "boot menu" listing all the different OSes, allowing you to choose which one to boot into.
If your MBR has been 'fixed' then it is usually fairly trivial to re'fix' it to whichever boot-loader you wanted. There are various special tools which can also do the job. Personally i just use almost any LiveCd/USb of almost any distro to run just a couple of commands and that's it re'fixed' again. Having a special tool to run the couple of commands seems a bit extravagant [shrugs]
Does
fix = mend
always? So in newspapers when they say a race was fixed do they mean the race had been broken? So why is it said as an accusation? Similarly with the MBR. It is "fixed" to ensure that only one boot-loader has any chance of winning. All the rest might as well not even be in the race at all.
Regards from
Tom
Hi
Nicely said Virgil! 
You almost make it sound like you are not already in the club just by using LibreOffice and a bit more besides!
The Tux penguin is a mascot of Gnu&Linux but used a bit more widely in OpenSource generally too. I was thinking of using a cuddly toy as a way of sounding out the IT department. Only people "in the know" would recognise it and you might see a flash of a grin from just 1 individual and be able to make contact with that person when the Windows fanboys aren't around. Like a super secret symbol used by a secret society so members can recognise each other. Like 2 fishes or dodgy handshakes or logos.
Regards from
Tom
Hi
Have you tried looking for merchandising in
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/
and other big-name sites? It might be worth hunting around on your distro's main sites.
Regards from
Tom
"Tom Davies":
Whenever you install Windows or upgrade, such as from Xp to Win7 the Windows installer kindly 'fixes' the MBR to point at the Windows boot-loader (NTldr).
Windows backs up the existing boot sector and adds it to the boot menu via boot.ini or BCD entry.
"Tom Davies":
By default most versions of Gnu&Linux (lets just call them distros) have a set of "repos" (=repositories) which are a bit like vast warehouses of programs and other software.
...Because Linux is inherently broken and cannot run vanilla builds of software. Also repositories keep prehistoric versions of apps only, backporting only the security issues fixes, which have to be manually picked from the developer's VCS and manually patched in. So to fix a bug in Foo 0.8.1 you need to upgrade your entire OS to get Foo 0.10.3 instead of simply installing 0.8.2 or 0.11.1.
It was really "nice" of Windows to stop allowing me to boot into Ubuntu
after I upgraded from Vista to Win7. I had to use a boot "fixer" disc
to give me back my Ubuntu. At least that laptop is the one I use only
once in a while, since I have a small drive in it, compared to my other one.
I just use them for conversation starters that can lead into LO.
One day, I will get some actual Tux and other items, but I no longer
work in an office, but out of my apartment.
Perhaps these are reasons why most modern operating systems (Mac OS X,
iOS, Windows 8, Android) have "stores" built-in, which essentially
**are** repositories.
If you can't distinguish between concept and implementation, please
don't say anything at all.
Urmas wrote:
...Because Linux is inherently broken and cannot run vanilla builds of
software. Also repositories keep prehistoric versions of apps only,
backporting only the security issues fixes, which have to be manually
picked from the developer's VCS and manually patched in. So to fix a
bug in Foo 0.8.1 you need to upgrade your entire OS to get Foo 0.10.3
instead of simply installing 0.8.2 or 0.11.1.
Well, it's clear you're clueless. Have you actually used Linux and
installed apps on it?
"James Knott":
Have you actually used Linux and
installed apps on it?
I've been using Linux since 2001, and that is exactly as the matter stands.
Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
It was really "nice" of Windows to stop allowing me to boot into Ubuntu
after I upgraded from Vista to Win7. I had to use a boot "fixer" disc
to give me back my Ubuntu. At least that laptop is the one I use only
once in a while, since I have a small drive in it, compared to my other one.
I have never had a problem with not being able to access Linux when
Windows is on the system. Windows installs will always break the boot
loader, so you have to be prepared to deal with that. However,
reinstalling Windows from the DVDs has never trashed Linux, though I
have heard some recovery discs will. So, as a rule, unless I have no
alternative, I install Windows first and then Linux. With my ThinkPad
E520, the first thing I did was to build the recovery DVDs and then used
the Windows tools to shrink the partition, to make room for the Linux
install. I have not had to reinstall Windows 7 since then. On my old
ThinkPad, I did reinstall from DVD, but it did not touch the Linux
partitions, only the boot loader.
Mirosław Zalewski wrote:
If you can't distinguish between concept and implementation, please
don't say anything at all.
It's quite clear he doesn't know what he's talking about or is a troll.
He's doing the same thing on the OpenOffice list. It's amazing how
these guys come out of the woodwork whenever MS is running into a bit of
difficulty.
Please ignore the troll, he's not even a very good one.
"Urmas" consistantly posts information about LO and linux that puts it
in a very bad light, but mostly is very obviously wrong, and
occasionally not so obviously wrong.
Well, «Umas», as a long-time GNU/Linux user, I wish to point out that
your comment to the effect that «to fix a bug in Foo 0.8.1 you need to
upgrade your entire OS to get Foo 0.10.3 instead of simply installing 0.8.2
or 0.11.1» is utterly false ; new updates of the various applications I use
are offered to me more or less daily, and in many cases, I can automate the
process by subscribing to so-called PPAs. Of course, the above assumes that
«Foo 0.10.3» is intended as a stand in for a generic GNU/Linux application
; it, rather, it is intended to refer to a specific application which you
produced all by yourself, then, indeed, your description may very well be
true....
Henri
It was the upgrading [overwriting with new install] from Vista 32-bit to
Win7 Pro 64-bit that messed with GRUB.
I had my Ubuntu installed like I like it and did not want to wipe the
entire drive for the Vista to Win7 "upgrading". It takes a lot of work
to install Ubuntu 12.04, plus MATE d.e., and all of the packages I want
and setting up all of the printers and such just like it was before.
Then there are the endless amounts of updates that Ubuntu would do. So
I really do not like to wipe the drive just to install the newer version
of Windows.
At least it was not setting up my main desktop. When I replaced a bad
primary drive [/sda], it took over 15 hours to install, tweak, etc. all
of the packages, plus all of the files back from backups and STILL I am
finding that I missed a tweak or package.
"Tom Davies":
By default most versions of Gnu&Linux (lets just call them distros) have a
set of "repos" (=repositories) which are a bit like vast warehouses of
programs and other software.
...Because Linux is inherently broken and cannot run vanilla builds of
software. Also repositories keep prehistoric versions of apps only,
backporting only the security issues fixes, which have to be manually picked
from the developer's VCS and manually patched in. So to fix a bug in Foo
0.8.1 you need to upgrade your entire OS to get Foo 0.10.3 instead of simply
installing 0.8.2 or 0.11.1.
Umas,
I have installed vanilla versions of LO on Ubuntu and derivatives and
openSUSE without any issues.
The advantage of the repository is when a new version is released, it
will automatically be updated and only one version is on the machine.
Currently I have several office suites installed on openSUSE 12.3 and
they coexist very nicely including two versions of LO - one from the
repository and one direct install.
You can install "unofficial" repositories that have newer/current
versions of various packages.
-- Jay Lozier jslozier@gmail.com