crash - crash - crash - crash. !@#$#@!

users
#1

Everyday, I organize my life around two large LO spreadsheets. I'm running ver. 4.2.1.1.

Since the last major update (ver. 4.2.1?), my day begins with a serious of crashes - only after I save both sheets (separately, of course) 6-12 times, each time after some small operation, do they get stable. Usually. Mostly. Except when they aren't.

I'm doing wild, exotic things like moving rows around, and inserting rows, or filling in columns with data copied from other columns.

I'm SO ready for the next version.

Anyone have a clue when it's due to land?

Thanks,

t.

#2

Tom,

Tom Cloyd wrote

Everyday, I organize my life around two large LO spreadsheets. I'm
running ver. 4.2.1.1.

Since the last major update (ver. 4.2.1?), my day begins with a serious
of crashes - only after I save both sheets (separately, of course) 6-12
times, each time after some small operation, do they get stable.
Usually. Mostly. Except when they aren't.

I'm doing wild, exotic things like moving rows around, and inserting
rows, or filling in columns with data copied from other columns.

Not sure your work flow is going to be stable on any spread sheet
program--too many moving parts.

But if ALL you are interested in is a solid Spreadsheet, perhaps have a look
at an alternative. Gnumeric comes to mind--http://www.gnumeric.org/

Otherwise, the "mature" LibreOffice 4.1.6 is very stable (but at the end of
its development life).

I'm SO ready for the next version.

Anyone have a clue when it's due to land?

The 4.2.4 "fresh" build is just rolling out now.

But my suggestion would be to test the calc component for 4.3.0 where there
has been very substantive refactoring work to improve its function and
stability. It is available now in its initial alpha build--personally I'd
give that a go--it is here:
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/

Stuart

#3

Tom,

I should have added a note regards option of doing a parallel installation
so you can test the versions side-by-side to identify the best stability for
your work flow.

See this Wiki page:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel

Regards,

Stuart

#4

4.2.3 is the current release version.

Why do you think that 4.2.1 is current?

4.2.4 will be released very soon though.

Or you could always roll back to 4.1.6 (prior stable branch).

#5

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
To clarify: the higher that 3rd digit the more stable the release is (that
is a bit of a simplification but it kinda works well).

So if stability is the main issue then the 4.1.6 is better than the 4.2.1.
The 1st and 2nd digits say more about features and advances in
compatibility with MSO formats but "you can't make an omelet without
breaking eggs" and the new features can sometimes cause unexpected problems
on some real-world machines. Testing can only go so far. So i tend to try
to get the highest 1st and 2nd digits for myself but give all my colleagues
the highest 3rd digit i can reasonably manage (without breaking a sweat).

Usual causes of crashing is an unstable version of Java. All versions
become unstable quite quickly, often even before release. If you have to
use Java try to keep updating it at least monthly. Mostly we steer well
away from using Java if at all possible. It is now highly unlikely that
you'll ever need Java active in LibreOffice so switch it off in LO
Tools - Options - Advanced/Java
and untick the box that asks if you want to use java. If LO grumbles at
some point then you can always switch it on for that task and hopefully
switch off again afterwards. The only exception is if you are using
Accessibility tools such as screen-readers or if you are using Base with
the internal back-end.

Another cause is low settings in "Memory"
Tools - Options - Memory
and just ramp everything right up. The defaults are set for machines with
low Ram.

Hopefully that helps a bit? i thought we had already gone through these
options so if it's still happening there is probably some other issue. I'm
just hoping that some of the above was unclear before.
Regards form
Tom :slight_smile:

#6

[...]

Thanks for your ideas.

My LO is always downloaded from the LO site, not the kubuntu packages. I'm currently running 4.2.1.1. When I check for updates via Help > Check for updates, I'm told that "LibreOffice 4.2 is up to date."

That 4.2.3 is out and available is news to me. I'm downloading it right now.

t.

#7

Hi :slight_smile:
Ahh, yeh. The check for updates is probably checking the repos of your
distro then or not really checking at all! Sorry about that! It does work
if you do get the version from your package manager but i only do that on
machines that are difficult for me to reach.
Apols and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#8

Progress report:

I've installed Version: 4.2.3.3, Build ID: 882f8a0a489bc99a9e60c7905a60226254cb6ff0

I've had 5 "vector::_M_range_check" crashes in a row, in one of my large multi-sheet spreadsheet documents. What I'm trying to do that's causing the crashes is delete about 10 rows in a sheet. Nothing more.

This error is the phantom that's been haunting me for weeks. Usually, if I never do two significant things to a sheet without saving between them, I can avoid the crash. When that doesn't work, I try deleting columns and replacing them with columns from other sheets. Somehow, this will ultimately get me to a point the crashes stop...until the next day, when it starts all over again.

I'm still working with the sheet to try to move it along. I have little choice. The sheet is that important.

t.

#9

Tom,

Believe you REALLY should get off of the 4.2.x branch and move onto the 4.3
now in alpha.
Devs have really put a lot of effort into exactly these issues for the 4.3
release.

First 4.3 alpha pre-release is
here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86/

or perhaps work with the nightly builds of master (4.3.0.0alpha1+) from
here: http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/ you'll very quickly
identify if your work flow is going to ever be supported.

Try them first in a parallel install, and perhaps side-by-side with
GNUmeric.

Stuart

#10

This bugs are fixed in 4.2 branch too. You can find Windows daily builds
for 4.2 branch here :
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/libreoffice-4-2/Win-x86@42/

Best regards
JBF

#11

Hi :slight_smile:
Errr, the numbers beyond the 3rd digit don't mean much to most of us here.
We do have a few devs here who might notice but it's probably beyond most
of us.

Splitting off individual worksheets sounds like a great idea. Hopefully
none of the sheets do calculations based on figures calculated in other
worksheets do they? It's unlikely [crosses fingers behind back] but it
does happen sometimes.

Each tab at the bottom is a separate worksheet but i guess you know that
already.

You can probably save individual tabs/worksheets as ".csv" files so that
you can work on them using simple text-editors but csv is so
non-standardised that in can be a nightmare trying to export to ".csv" in
such a way that makes it easy to open as a normal spreadsheet afterwards.

I guess the key point is whether the spreadsheets are 'just' holding data
or whether they are doing tons of calculations.

Stuart and Jean-Baptiste know a lot more about what is fixed in each
version. I gave broad-brush-strokes but they know the detail. So, scratch
my idea about going back to the 4.1.6. It might suit most cases but
clearly not yours.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#12

Stuart,

Update and status report - good news! -

1. I've installed Version: 4.3.0.0.alpha1 Build ID: 46cfcd5a05aa1d13fecd73f5a25b64b8d8dd6781.

It's at least as solid as ver. 4.1.6.2 was for me. I'm still having "vector::_M_range_check" crashes - but only in one particular situation. As long as all my work is in one sheet - no errors at all. What a relief! But moving data to another sheet crashes it under a very specific situation.

I'm working on a replication dataset so I can file a bug and maybe see this problem removed completely while it's still an alpha. That would be fantastic. I'd also be actually contributing a little to development, and I'd love to do that.

So, all the work that's gone into this new version has sure paid off for ME, and I'm very grateful.

2. I installed 4.3.0.0 in parallel with 4.1.6.2, in case I had to revert to that, but right now - about 25 minutes into it I don't see that happening. Better to go forward, I think. My experiences can then help to improve the code, maybe.

3. I installed GNUmeric. Gaaaack! Not good. It was incredibly slow. To insert a single new row in one sheet took about 50 seconds. More complicated things took even longer. It wouldn't copy formatting, and I could NOT find a format painter, which I simply must have. A total no-go for me. But, worth a look.

So, as of now, I'm back in business and moving forward, and that's a much better place than I was yesterday - all of which was devoted to trying to resolve this problem.

Thanks for your help for pushing me into 4.3. I had to study up on a few things, but the LO wiki material was extremely helpful and clear, and it solved all problems that came up.

Onward!

Tom

#13

Tom,

Thanks for your thoughts, as always.

I'm copying individual sheets into new blank spreadsheets, not .csv files, which would accomplish nothing.

And, yes, they ARE doing "tons of calculations". That appears to be the problem - maybe. Alternatively, it appears that moving things around get the program pretty confused pretty quickly.

See my next post, to Stuart, for an updated status report - good news.

t.

#14

Stuart,

I'd love to. I just explored around with the link you gave. I run Kubuntu Linux, and the link was to windows releases, but it wasn't hard to find a deb version. I shouldn't have been put off by that /win/ link! I'll load that up and see what I can do. It could hardly be much worse than what I'm experiencing now.

That's for tomorrow morning, though. I've been working on this and related issues all day, and I done it.

Will let you know what happens. I'm hopeful! I could go the GNUmeric, but I'd like to say with calc. Like you idea of parallel with GNUmeric, though. Will probably try that.

THANKS.

t.

#15

Followup - More progress. I've extracted a single sheet from the document which reproduces this problem perfectly. I'm now working my way toward filing a bug report. Seems like the thing to do, yes?

Tom

#16

Tom,

Glad you are making progress. Now, if we can impose a bit on you :wink:

It would be very helpful if you can now more completely characterize the remaining issue into a formal issue report on our Bugzilla tracker (as hosted by FreeDesktop.org but early in a migration to our own).

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/index.cgi where you'd "Open a New Account"

Then, you can "File a Bug" from there against LibreOffice, selecting component of Spreadsheet, and setting version of 4.3.0.0.alpha1

Or alternatively, use the Bugzilla Submission Assistant as an alternative -- https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/ -- with the Bugzilla log-in just created.

All very simple, but the work/pain needed would be that attached to the new bug we'd need you to put a sanitized version of the problem spreadsheet that still produces the crash. And also include the specific steps you perform that are resulting in the "vector::_M_range_check" crashes. The better the description of steps to reproduce with the sample document, the more likely one of the devs will be able to pin down the specific cause of the crash.

And, since you are on Linux, you might also attach a backtrace and strace of the crash--details for that are here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport/Debug_Information#GNU.2FLinux

I know it will be a bit of work for you to get it submitted, but it is worth the hassle as it may lead to complete support for your work flows.

Post back with your Bugzilla issue ID once you get it filed.

Stuart

#17

Tom,

When you get a chance, could you load up a newer nightly build of master,
e.g. of the 4.3.0.0alpha1+ build. Found here--
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/

Kohei Yoshida, one of the lead devs on the calc spreadsheet component, made
a range of commits on 24 April (the 4.3.0.0alpha1 was wrapped up 20 April so
not included yet for it) against bugs fdo#76607
<https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76607> and fdo#72741
<https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72741> .

I kind of suspect that your remaining issue may already have been corrected.
If so, let us know and perhaps add your bugzilla user ID to the CC list for
the issue.

Stuart

#18

"Tom Cloyd":

Since the last major update (ver. 4.2.1?), my day begins with a serious
of crashes - only after I save both sheets (separately, of course) 6-12
times, each time after some small operation, do they get stable.

You are supposed to use commercial software to do serious work. It is rather strange to complain about something made just-for-fun and given you for free.

#19

Error correction: I referred to Apache below. Silly me. End of the week fatigue showing up.

I meant Adobe.

t.

#20

Urmas -

I am "supposed" to - WHAT? You in da wrong place man. You one lost dude.

I cannot recall the last time I did what I was "supposed" to do. That's simply alien thought. I do what I want to do. Period, which is why I'm here.

I will mercifully assume you are exercising your capacity for dry wit. I do that sometimes, and get myself into some interesting pickles.

But just for those few who might think you could be serious:

"Libre" - that means 'free to do what you choose'. Free TO choose. Free to complain, to work on solutions, to contribute what you can. Free to acquire a sense of ownership. Free to offer funding, when you can. Free to participate, and learn, and promote the best damned software you ever used to all who will listen you.

Man, that sure does NOT describe the relationship I had with Microsoft, Intuit, Apache, and a host of other folks who were giving me "da bidness" for years, by figuring out new and devious ways to build walled gardens and to force me to pay them every year for newly scrambled interfaces and file formats, and wretched documentation, etc.

A quick trip down memory lane:

* Internet Explorer 6 - featuring the box model from hell. Torturing web designers for well over a decade, with never even the suggestion of a fix - they didn't flippin' care.
* Intuit Quicken - featuring mandatory updates, at a price, every year. You get to subscribe whether you want to or not.
* Windows XP - the worst single piece of crap I even loaded onto my computer. It got better after about a decade of updates - 5 years after I stopped using it forever.

Does opensource software it always work. Hell no. But then neither do I, so I can only say so much about that. What it DOES do is offer me relentless improvement; the joy of an active, supportive community; documentation that is very often the best I've ever seen; and contact with folks I truly believe are the most dedicated and creative programmers I've ever seen.

"...made just for fun..." Yeah. Serious fun. The kind that is indistinguishable from the most meaningful work you can imagine. The kind that's a gift to the world. The kind of fun to which my life is dedicated.

Before I was a psychotherapist, I was a cultural anthropologist. Let me tell you a little about leadership in primitive society: Very often, leaders are poor. They give away what they have for the benefit of the people, which is why they get such respect, and become leaders. I am very happy, in the software world in which I participate, to be in the company of such leaders. Because I am "libre", I choose to be here. I would not choose to be anywhere else. You could not pay me to be anywhere else.

Tom