Importing PDF problem

users
#21

interesting ;-( :wink:

       Now I'm confused ... well, that's not anything new ...
           why should this method work for me and not not for others :wink:

       Well, the more I learn of these 'glorified typewriters', the less I
seem to know :wink:

When I open the PDF file and try to export it, all I see are graphics

#22

      Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
          and how to acquire it ...
             or is this something only for Linux users :wink:

you can find information about versions for Windows at <http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/>; looks like the direct link to the Windows stuff is: <http://www.pdflabs.com/tools/pdftk-the-pdf-toolkit/pdftk_server-1.45-windows-setup.msi>

I find pdftk a god-send.

F.

#23

Thank you.

#24

Hi :slight_smile:
Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are for a one type of DE for Gnu&Linux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.

Often programs have a "back-end" or "command-line" tool that does most of the heavy lifting and then different "front-ends" or "Gui"s are put on for each of the 2 main types.

Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.  Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use choose more apps.

DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest (Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to use front-ends written for one or the other.

Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles; 
1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more "fully functionally" if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach everyone. 
2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE makes sense but why the Qt?  Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not quite enough of it for Tim's requirements. 
3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3 different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular amongst purists)

I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about Gnu&Linux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each others achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough) 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#25

Thanks for this summation -
           as for now, it's 'clear as mud' :wink:

       Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.

Hi :slight_smile:

#26

Hi :slight_smile:
Yes, sorry about that!  When i started writing it all seemed clear in my mind but then somehow i got a bit lost after the 1st sentence and never found my way back to solid ground.

Felmon's answer said much the same i think but was much shorter and clearer.  Plus the link too.  Altogether much better!
Apols and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#27

No apologies necessary -
           it was just me being 'cute' again :wink:

       Your response might make sense to me after I figure out what's what
on that link - still studying it.

Hi :slight_smile:

#28

      Thanks for this summation -

I wonder what the original question was? I seem to have missed a part of the exchange.

          as for now, it's 'clear as mud' :wink:

      Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.

I hope it can be of help; I've only ever used the Linux version but I imagine they aren't too different.

F.

#29

Tom,
My 2-cents.

Hi :slight_smile:
Programs with tk (or more usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are for a one type of DE for Gnu&Linux. Sometimes a G is used instead. The other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.

"tk" stands for Tool Kit, so truncating GTK (Gnome Tool Kit) is not entirely proper.

Often programs have a "back-end" or "command-line" tool that does most of the heavy lifting and then different "front-ends" or "Gui"s are put on for each of the 2 main types.

Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE. If you choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'. Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he installs both. It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use choose more apps.

DE = Desktop Environment. The main 2 are Gnome and KDE. Most of the rest (Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to use front-ends written for one or the other.

I have switched to Xfce, since IMHO KDE 4 is still a basket case even though it is release 10 (4.10) on my Slackware 14.0 distro! From what I am hearing on other forums, I am not alone in switching. The K people had a very stable KDE in 3.5 and they were only up to release 5 (3.5). I was sorry to see that stability go for an entire rewrite in KDE 4.

Ok, so it's not quite that simple. 2 extra wrinkles;
1. Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and Xfce apps work well in Gnome.

Not so. From my experience, most of the apps without a "K" prefix are written with GTK, so they can run on the most DEs. I ran GTK apps on KDE.

Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more "fully functionally" if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G (stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach everyone.
2. Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE makes sense but why the Qt? Well, until recently Qt was less streamlined and was a lot of the weight in KDE. Now it is a lot faster and lighter it seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
3. Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that make it the DE of choice!? Oddly not. It's been forked in at least 2 or 3 different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular amongst purists)

KDE is and has been, built on the QT libraries, so the QT is redundant. K* can assume QT. Most if not all of the other DEs are built on the GTK libraries. In my experience, there are many more applications built on GTK than QT. Apps built on GTK will run on KDE, however, I am not sure apps built for KDE will run on all GTK DEs. I know for a fact that KDE apps will run well on Xfce, I am doing so. In fact, I was amazed at how well they do run. The QT library was proprietary at one time (Trolltech). I don't know if the current version is. GTK is open source (GNU) licensed.

I hope that helps!! I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something! Something i like about Gnu&Linux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of each others achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Yours in enlightenment.
Girvin Herr

#30

Hi :) 
I had  a feeling i was missing some wrinkles by accident and made a few mistakes.  There were a few wrinkles i was trying to skate over to try to make it simpler to understand.

1.  I didn't know tk = tool kit, and gtk = gnome tool kit, that makes more sense of it to me now.

2.  People did really seem to like the older versions of KDE and Gnome and a lot of people were somewhat shocked by how they both made such radical changes in their newer versions.  They both seem to have settled down a lot and become more accepted now so it might be worth leapfrogging over their .0 releases and going straight to their more recent versions.  Xfce is quite popular but perhaps that is a warning?  Perhaps they plan to do something radical?  As it is right now it's a tad heavier (ie more fully functional) than i expected.  Enlightenment, Openbox, LxDE and tons of others are far, far  lighter.  I enjoyed Enlightenment but only used it briefly.  LxDE looked far too much like Windows in the implementation i used and i hated all the blues so much i couldn't bear it long enough to change them!  Oddly i am quite happy with Unity now although i can understand why others don't.  It kinda pre-empted Win8's UI but the implementation is less
rammed down people's throats and gives us something a more familiar by default.  So if you are on Xfce can i recommend you try LxDE and Enlightenment (assuming it's not a pita to just quickly try them!  I'm not sure if it would involve compiling things and if it did i would avoid them)

3.  Superfluous or not is not the issue.  Some apps just have Qt at the front of their names, eg QtPartEd as the KDE equivalent of GPartEd with both using PartEd as their main back-end.  Other apps use a K, such as Kate; whereas Gnome apps use a G, such as Gedit.

I tried to avoid mentioning apps that don't have those letters as indicators and i'm sure some apps accidentally use those letters without realising they have significance or as a deliberate attempt to buck against the 'rules'.  (not really rules at all of course, possibly not even unofficial guidelines)

Gtk apps do run in KDE but they don't look pretty.  KDE gives them Win95-style borders and title-bars doesn't it?  My neighbour grumbles on about it as tho it meant the end of the world.

The other way around, Qt on Gtk-based DEs - I'm not sure if there are still some Qt apps that don't run in some Gnome DE's or going wider to other Gtk-based ones but usually i would use the Gnome equivalent of such programs.  I'm quite happy with Brasero, for example.  It does more than i need.  Sometimes i even prefer GnomeBaker.  I really don't need the sophisticated tools built-into the KDE nearest equivalent.

It's interesting to hear that Qt was proprietary!!  A bit of a shocker for me!  Surely it is OpenSource by now?
Regards from

Tom :slight_smile:

#31

Hi :slight_smile:
I forgot the original question!  I got carried away on the tangent Anne started (always best to blame someone else.  Right?) by asking "what is tk?"  lol
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#32

Hi Anne :slight_smile:
Really don't worry about my answer!  I kinda wish i could pull it!  it's becoming quite interesting but is sooo far off-topic and tangential that it's not even in orbit of anything anymore. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: anne-ology <laginnis@gmail.com>
To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Felmon Davis <davisf@union.edu>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" <users@global.libreoffice.org>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 21:46
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

No apologies necessary -
           it was just me being 'cute' again  :wink:

Your response might make sense to me after I figure out what's what on that link - still studying it.

Hi :slight_smile:

Yes, sorry about that!  When i started writing it all seemed clear in my mind but then somehow i got a bit lost after the 1st sentence and never found my way back to solid ground.

Felmon's answer said much the same i think but was much shorter and clearer.  Plus the link too.  Altogether much better!
Apols and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: anne-ology <laginnis@gmail.com>
To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Felmon Davis <davisf@union.edu>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" <users@global.libreoffice.org>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 18:23

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

Thanks for this summation -
          as for now, it's 'clear as mud'  :wink:

Felmon - I'm studying the page you sent me.

Hi :slight_smile:

Programs with tk (or more

usually gtk) at the end or at the beginning are

for a one type of DE for Gnu&Linux.  Sometimes a G is used instead.  The
other main type of DE usually has K or Qt at the front of it's programs.

Often programs have a "back-end" or "command-line" tool that does most of
the heavy lifting and then different "front-ends" or "Gui"s are put on for
each of the 2 main types.

Typically we talk about families of distros but even a single distro might
have 2 or 3 versions with each one having a different type of DE.  If you
choose the 'wrong one' then you can choose whether to install the other DE
or get a different version of the distro that does have the 'right one'.
Tim at Kracked Press has somethings he likes in each of the main DEs so he
installs both.  It makes his system a bit more bloated but means he can use
choose more

apps.

DE = Desktop Environment.  The main 2 are Gnome and KDE.  Most of the rest
(Xfce, Unity, Enlightenment and probably hundreds more) tend to be able to
use front-ends written for one or the other.

Ok, so it's not quite that simple.  2 extra wrinkles;
1.  Gtk or tk are pretty rarely used but are for the Xfce DE (well really
a WM (=window manager (note the lower-case w)) but that is nearly a DE) and
Xfce apps work well in Gnome.  Gnome is a bit heftier (a bit more "fully
functionally" if you know what i mean) so it's fairly normal to find a G
(stands for Gnome) instead of the rarer Gtk but then that's a pain because
the app might need a 3rd front-end instead of just having 2 to reach
everyone.
2.  Going back to seeing the K at the beginning of apps written for KDE
makes sense but why the Qt?  Well,

until recently Qt was less streamlined

and was a lot of the weight in KDE.  Now it is a lot faster and lighter it
seems that Gnome or distros using Gnome have pulled it in but just not
quite enough of it for Tim's requirements.
3.  Since Gnome often can run apps built for the 3 main DEs shouldn't that
make it the DE of choice!?  Oddly not.  It's been forked in at least 2 or 3
different directions and in Ubuntu it's been replaced by Unity (which can
also run a lot of the Gnome, Xfce or KDE apps but is extremely unpopular
amongst purists)

I hope that helps!!  I hope i got it about right too otherwise i'm going
to get deluged with unwanted flaming or something!  Something i like about
Gnu&Linux is the passion and that we go all sorts of different ways but
somehow manage to grow and learn from each other or make use of

each others

achievements and even build on them (if individuals are gifted enough)
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

------------------------------
  *From:* anne-ology <laginnis@gmail.com>
*To:* Felmon Davis <davisf@union.edu>
*Cc:* users@global.libreoffice.org
*Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013, 16:29

*Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem

Curiously wondering what this 'new' PDFtk is -
          and how to acquire it ...
              or is this something only for Linux users

:wink:

The longer I'm on this amazing list, the more I'm learning about
these 'glorified-typewriters'  :slight_smile:

>
>
>> Hi Jay,
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Linux (Slackware).  Unfortunately,
>> exporting to text is not an option here as the PDF's contain various
>> drawings that can't be omitted.
>>
>> David
>>
>
> what format does this 'single file' have to be in? if it can be itself a
> pdf then use pdftk.
>
> pdftk allows you to 'join' multiple pdfs into one.

>

> take the .doc stuff and convert to pdf then put it all together via
pdftk.
>
> the syntax for pdftk is a bit weird (I find it hard to remember) but at
> the same time very simple.
>
> Felmon
>
>
>
>> From: Jay Lozier <jslozier@gmail.com>
>> To: users@global.libreoffice.org
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Importing PDF problem
>> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 17:18:42 -0400
>>
>>
>>> I'm currently working on a large project that requires me to import
many
>>> documents from my colleagues,

some in word or PDF formats, into a

single
>>> file.  Libreoffice doesn't work if I try Insert->File... on a PDF file
>>> (I get an error popup saying Error rereading the file).
>>>
>>> I can open the PDF file (in draw) and cut and paste each PDF page into
>>> the document, but that is painful.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to make File->Insert work, perhaps via a macro?  If not,
>>> consider this a feature request.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>  What OS are you using?
>>
>> In some pdf readers you can export the entire file as a plain text file
>> and this file can be opened in Writer or imported into Calc. I do not
>> know if this would less or more painful. You

would have the entire file

#33

so you've joined NASA :wink:
          they've come a long way since first landing on the moon; will you
be the first to land on each of the planets :wink:
              in order from Mercury to Venus to Earth to Mars to Jupiter to
Saturn to Uranus to Neptune to Pluto :wink:
                 then back again :wink:

       Well, if we're going off on a tangent ... ... ... :wink:

Hi Anne :slight_smile:

#34

Hi :slight_smile:
This was the post that sent me veering off-course.  Gtk or Tk apps often seem to have been ported to Windows but that might just be because i notice them more
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#35

Hi :slight_smile:

This was the post that sent me veering off-course.  Gtk or Tk apps often seem to have been ported to Windows but that might just be because i notice them more

Regards from Tom :slight_smile:

I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was confused by the discussion of desktop environments.

it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui interface on Linux.

Felmon

#36

Felmon,
Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk

So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) interfaces with. From my experience, it isn't pretty, but functional.

I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to build it. But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own gui code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced. I would be surprised if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
Girvin Herr

<snip>

I'm only familiar with pdftk as a command-line tool; thus I was confused by the discussion of desktop environments.

it does have a gui interface (or several?) and then there are the Windows and Mac versions. I don't know what is used to make the gui interface on Linux.

Felmon

<snip>

#37

Felmon,
Looks like pdftk is written in Java.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdftk

So the gui (Graphical User Interface) is whatever the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) interfaces with. From my experience, it isn't pretty, but functional.

I noticed there are some other source files and some 3rd-party code in the package that I did not take time to investigate, and it takes Gcc to build it. But one of the big ideas of Java is that it contains its own gui code, so the programmer's effort is greatly reduced. I would be surprised if pdftk does not use the standard Java gui.
Girvin Herr

good to know, especially about the '3rd-party code'.

makes sense the gui would be in java so it can run on various platforms.

I don't however foresee myself invoking the gui unless I'm working off of Windows or something.

I'll look but I bet there's a command-line version for Windows too.

F.

#38

yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
           or need to keep studying ... ... ... :wink:

       Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned :wink:

       Ah, acronyms :wink:
           tk := http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
       (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
- puns are so much fun :slight_smile: )

#39

      yikes, sounds as if I need further information -
          or need to keep studying ... ... ... :wink:

not sure how the further discussion would be relevant to you if you just want to use the tool. the link I gave you explains the things pdftk can do. you can then decide if it might be useful.

the next step is to determine if you find it convenient to use.

of course, if you are also interested in how the tool is built, then that's a different matter.

      Please update re. this / these tks whenever; I'll stay tuned :wink:

      Ah, acronyms :wink:
          tk := http://www.acronymfinder.com/TK.html
      (well, while waiting to understand all this, my mind tends to wander
- puns are so much fun :slight_smile: )

don't mean to be acronymonious about it but all disciplines and occupations use abbreviations and have specialist dictionaries - general-purpose dictionaries won't do.

F.

#40

I always try to expand acronyms when I first use them in text. That is good writing form and good communication, which is what writing is all about. However, it Is beyond the scope of these messages to describe the terms. That task is left as an exercise to the student.
I always say: when I stop learning, it is time to bury me.

Oh, pdftk is probably an acronym for Portable Document Format Tool Kit. But it is a software program, so the term is atomic, meaning it is inseparable, and it can mean anything the programmer wants it to.
Class dismissed!
Girvin Herr