LibreOffice Sort Bug ?

users
#21

Not really since, while for me the prospect of using a DB back end isn't
daunting, for most it is.

Secondly, this is the perfect use-case where a DB back end can't be used
since the process of collecting the data for populating the SS was
organic and constantly changing until it arrived at the current state it
is in where yes, putting a backend on it would work very well BUT, I
can't then send a copy to my co-workers and ask them to use it without
their heads exploding.

One must consider the use-case when deciding how to use the tools available.

#22

Brian,

Thanks for your reply and for the articles you linked to – especially the last one is very interesting. I have been aware of that but not so well explained.

As I think you are very cunny both on spreadsheets and how to use them and also the mathematics, I am not able to argue.

But I am sure you know what I meant when I said that a spreadsheet is ‘totally’ worthless if you cannot trust it, if it -- the program, its features or functions -- does not work (behave) as supposed.

As an engineer I have been working with MSExcel since late 1980 and have since 10 years successively began to use OO/LO.

I’ve always tried to crosscheck important calculations and with calculation processes start with some few (random or logical) sample data and/or manual calcs to be sure that the formulas (& combinations of) work OK.

Whatever people say about Microsoft, I must say that I have never experienced any problems caused by the program MSExcel itself (perhaps I’ve been lucky) – all my problems have been caused by my typos or my bad planning of the calculation process.

But, especially with LibreOffice/Calc I have experienced issues that clearly depend on LO as a program and have caused me a lot of extra doings – the last couple of years LO has become better.

Regarding the articles. If the programming of the "very big" programs is purchased from a "third party" where the programmer -- the person -- does not have no own knowledge (understanding) about the customer's process, then it is an unavoidable necessity that there will be flaws and serious issues -- regarless of branch.

Anyhow, the fact is that Microsoft has a 90 percent market share and every MSO suite includes MSExcel.

Above this are e.g. AOO/OO/LOwith roughly 2 mega spreadsheet users and their applications.

That means that quite a lot of – some very important -- calculations are globally done with these MSO&AOO&OO&LO (..etc..) spreadsheets.

If the spreadsheets are that unreliable as these articles (and you) explain, should it not then be good - if not a necessity – to warn about it? Experts and “nerds” can manage but not ordinary users like me.

I like LibreOffice and respect its intensions and thus I want it to be better.

If LO really wants to increase its market share – to beat MSO, a benefit for all users – then it has to eliminate every possible cause of problems especially for the ‘ordinary user’ -- even the small ones like that sorting issue.

The ordinary user selects a range and pushes the sort button -- if the sort does not behave as expected, and there is no explanation why or how and the help is too difficult to find -- then he/she considers this a problem.
Too many problems is not good for LO.

It is the mass of ‘ordinary users’ that build most of the MSO’s market share.

The main and final responsibility lies – not on the (unpaid) programmer -- but on the controlling team in the LO organization.
It is better to fix problems at a stage of planning and production than after a global distribution(ref. to Quality Management Systems).

regards Pertti Rönnberg

#23

If we are talking about a flat list, you can save the list as a dBase
table in a dedicated directory on a shared network folder, connect a
Base document to the directory and distribute the Base document to your
co-workers.
You can collect data in "organic" sheets and copy the cleaned up data to
a database table. Your co-workers can open a spreadsheet linked to the
clean and consistent database data.
Flat dBase data can be edited in the data source window or by means of
input forms which are way more user friendly than spreadsheet.

#24

<snip>

If LO really wants to increase its market share – to beat MSO, a benefit
for all users – then it has to eliminate every possible cause of
problems especially for the ‘ordinary user’ -- even the small ones like
that sorting issue.

What you seem to be failing to understand is that the 'problem' you are
describing is not a failing of Libreoffice, it is simply a failing of
you, the user, to properly understand how the tool you have chosen to
use works.

I agree that this should probably be a configurable option you can set
in Tools > Options > Libreoffice Calc > Defaults (or something like
that) - ie, change the default behavior to whatever you want - but the
fact is, it isn't, so you simply need to be aware of this.

You do have some options:

1. Just be aware of the behavior and work around it

2. Create a Macro that puts a button on your toolbar to do exactly what
you want

3. Open a bug/enhancement request to make this a configurable option

#25

It is a regression because it used to be a configurable option.

Type a couple of text values into a column of cells.
Select the cells and call Data>Define...
Give a name to the range, hit [More Options] and uncheck the column
header option.
Hit [Add] and then [OK]

Now try Data>Filter>Standard...
The standard filter dialog lets you enter filter criteria for "Column
A", "Column B", "Column C" etc. because it recognizes that this is a
named data range with no column header.

Some years ago the sort dialog used to recognize the same column header
option defined for a named database range. The quick-sort buttons used
to ignore named data ranges any time.

#26

Oh, ok, so what is the current open bug#?

#27

It is a regression because it used to be a configurable option.

Oh, ok, so what is the current open bug#?

I don't care. I deleted my bugzilla account after receiving the
following mail for each of my reports:

#28

It is a regression because it used to be a configurable option.

Oh, ok, so what is the current open bug#?

I don't care. I deleted my bugzilla account after receiving the
following mail for each of my reports:

You deleted your bugzilla account because bugs are closed because the
bug reporters fail to follow-up and provide needed info to help find and
fix the bug?

Makes no sense...

#29

Hi :slight_smile:
It is frustrating on both sides i reckon. I think something got lost in
translation somewhere.

I suspect that if anyone were to provide the information the Devs or QA
Team requested in any of those bug-reports then that report would be
re-opened. However i get the feeling that there might be a feeling that
the information was already supplied or is difficult to obtain or might
seem pointless. However just as many questions in here may seem ambiguous
to us it might be that the Devs or QA Team do need to distinguish between
things that we would consider as being identical. All very difficult to
translate between pure geek and just very techie.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#30

Hello at the nice people at LibreOffice! (especially you :slight_smile: )

I'm using LibreOffice version 4.4.1.2

I was very surprised to see a bug (?!) in the internal SORT function of Calc.

Please fill the following cells with a simple letter:
L17=Z
L18=B
L19=Y
L20=R
L21=Q
L22=P

Now select those 6 cells and click on the Down/Up arrow in the toolbar (Sort), select Sort Key 1 : Z, Ascending, then click OK. Expected result was B-P-Q-R-Y-Z, but the Z did not move at all ! =-O

This is undoubtedly a serious bug... and nobody has detected this before? How strange.

For me, the bug is confirmed. First cell doesn't sort.

LibreOffice 4.3.3.2
Build ID: 430m0(Build:2)
Linux Environment

Ciao

#31

I agree with Pertti. This behaviour is not acceptable, or at least, the avegrage user should be warned about it (that's to say, go to Data and modify there the way to order)

#32

Valter Mura 於 2015/4/1 上午 04:07 寫道:

Hello at the nice people at LibreOffice! (especially you :slight_smile: )

I'm using LibreOffice version 4.4.1.2

I was very surprised to see a bug (?!) in the internal SORT function
of Calc.

Please fill the following cells with a simple letter:
L17=Z
L18=B
L19=Y
L20=R
L21=Q
L22=P

Now select those 6 cells and click on the Down/Up arrow in the toolbar
(Sort), select Sort Key 1 : Z, Ascending, then click OK. Expected
result was B-P-Q-R-Y-Z, but the Z did not move at all ! =-O

This is undoubtedly a serious bug... and nobody has detected this
before? How strange.

For me, the bug is confirmed. First cell doesn't sort.

LibreOffice 4.3.3.2
Build ID: 430m0(Build:2)
Linux Environment

Ciao

It is seemed the first cell is used as a label, not data. If we add one
more cell L16, set L16=Test, and select those 7 cells ( L16 ~ L22 ) to
sort, then we will get the result B-P-Q-R-Y-Z.

Hope it helps and best regards.

Michael

#33

The above test DOES treat the first cell in the range as a column LABEL. If you do the sort using the menu (Data > Sort), the box that opens up contains two tabs (Sort Criteria, & Options). Again, the default is to treat the top cell as a LABEL. If you do NOT HAVE any column labels, you have to go to the OPTIONS tab (every time) and UN-SELECT the "Range Contains Column Labels" box.

Technically, this does not appear to be a bug. (It appears to be intentional design.) But I believe it is a poor design. That "Range Contains Column Labels" checkbox SHOULD be on the SORT CRITERIA tab, so that the user sees it every time he performs the sort operation. Likewise, using one of the SORT icons should also open up that same box. The only difference should be that the default sort order changes depending on which icon is hit.

LO Version: 4.3.5.2
Windows 7 64-bit

-- Tim

#34

Hi :slight_smile:
So changing it is a "Feature request" and it might be handy if you, or
whoever posts it in the bug-reporting system, gives us a clickable link so
that we can maybe show that the change would be quite popular.

Feels like you are getting somewhere with this! The next bit might have a
looong lead-time or lag but it'd be nice to start on that next step. Does
anyone have time to post such a report?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#35

Hi all,

Tom Davies schrieb:

Hi :slight_smile:
So changing it is a "Feature request" and it might be handy if you, or
whoever posts it in the bug-reporting system, gives us a clickable link so
that we can maybe show that the change would be quite popular.

Feels like you are getting somewhere with this! The next bit might have a
looong lead-time or lag but it'd be nice to start on that next step. Does
anyone have time to post such a report?

Done. https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90393

Kind regards
Regina

#36

Hi :slight_smile:
Wow!! That was really nicely done! All that detail and giving them the
coding to search for and comparisons with other Spreadsheet programs!

Thanks Regina! Also many thanks to Stuart Foote for his typical speed and
efficiency in passing it straight onto the relevant team already!

I don't think there is anything worth adding as all the issues seem to be
covered succinctly and tactfully. Zugzwang.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#37

-- Tim