Microsoft Revisits the '80s With MS-DOS, Word for Windows Source Code,

users
#21

Microsoft has never used an open file format for ANY software. Not even
the Microsoft's supposedly ISO document standard format is really open
because it embeds proprietary binary blobs.

#22

I am not sure of my time line, but I remember only proprietary formats for early desktop applications and every software house had their own formats. The problem occurred because no one expected the problems with file type obsolescence. I doubt you can easily find a program that will open most word processing or spreadsheets from the before 1990 and you with some difficulty find one that will convert the old formats to a current one.

#23

Hi :slight_smile:
In general it's safe to assume that whatever Urmas writes is the exact
opposite of reality. I think most people can spot the absurdities or
inaccuracies.

For example
1. "Gary Kildall, creator of CP/M" attempting to assert copyright is
written as though the whole notion of copyright doesn't exist
2. as James and Italo point out wrt "easy and open" and has been
pointed out many times on this list.

Even MS Office users often have trouble reading documents that have
been saved in MS formats using previous versions of MS Office. Of
course it's fair to assume there might be problems opening documents
saved in future versions of a program or ones saved in really ancient
versions of a program. MS Office has those problems too.
LibreOffice, OpenOffice and the rest seem to manage to avoid that sort
of thing being a problem by using a format that
1. is fully documented, without that being excessively long (was it
something like under 3k pages compared against OOXMLs 11,000?)
2. is implemented as per the documentation
3. still has the filters used for very old formats

On the other hand Urmas does give some good help to people and often
about fairly technical or obscure things. So, that is much
appreciated.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#24

Your point is valid, but only in today's context.

It's hard to remember that, back then, the idea of actually "storing" your
document on one of those computer contraptions was somewhat left of absurd.

If the document was important, or even if it needed to be retained for legal
reasons, it would have been put in the traditional and reliable storage
mechanism known as a "file cabinet." Even back then, floppies were regularly
reused after the document was "done." And the idea that hard drives would be
available for less than a gazillion dollars per megabyte (and what the heck
was a megabyte anyway?). So, the best format was a silly and irrelevant
discussion.

The only things the new-fangled computer was good for (at least in terms of
word processing) were permitting changes without using White-Out,
automatically performing word wrap, and such things - and, remember, for
secretaries and typists, these were AMAZING capabilities. And did any of
them have the slightest suspicion that they were looking at what would
become their replacements? When was the last time you saw a typing pool? (if
you don't recall, that was where the typists went swimming during their
lunch breaks).

Thus, screen space was quite important. Back then, the concentration was on
improving the generation and presentation of documents.

So - if you were kidding, I apologize for responding seriously. We often
forget that, back in the dark past, Ken Olsen (DEC) couldn't conceive of
anyone ever having a computer in their home (what would he have thought
about "in their pocket"?). And Bill Gates famously said he couldn't see any
need for more than 16k of memory (he seems to have changed his mind over
time).

Have a great week ...

#25

Your point is valid, but only in today's context.

It's hard to remember that, back then, the idea of actually "storing" your
document on one of those computer contraptions was somewhat left of absurd.

If the document was important, or even if it needed to be retained for legal
reasons, it would have been put in the traditional and reliable storage
mechanism known as a "file cabinet." Even back then, floppies were regularly
reused after the document was "done." And the idea that hard drives would be
available for less than a gazillion dollars per megabyte (and what the heck
was a megabyte anyway?). So, the best format was a silly and irrelevant
discussion.

Yes, the official copies were the ones printed out not on the floppy.

The only things the new-fangled computer was good for (at least in terms of
word processing) were permitting changes without using White-Out,
automatically performing word wrap, and such things - and, remember, for
secretaries and typists, these were AMAZING capabilities. And did any of
them have the slightest suspicion that they were looking at what would
become their replacements? When was the last time you saw a typing pool? (if
you don't recall, that was where the typists went swimming during their
lunch breaks).

LOL about the typing pool
Also, when computer thingies became fairly common most older professionals (mostly men) were miserable typists. Into the 80's one of the most difficult skills for the military to find was typing because very few boys learned to type. So anyone who could type moderately decently became the company clerk; it was too valuable a skill to waste on being a rifleman.

Thus, screen space was quite important. Back then, the concentration was on
improving the generation and presentation of documents.

So - if you were kidding, I apologize for responding seriously. We often
forget that, back in the dark past, Ken Olsen (DEC) couldn't conceive of
anyone ever having a computer in their home (what would he have thought
about "in their pocket"?). And Bill Gates famously said he couldn't see any
need for more than 16k of memory (he seems to have changed his mind over
time).

DEC no longer exists. I think their remains were bought by Compaq; now part of HP.

#26

That may be what it was, since I know the college used CP/M for a course and they used the Apples.

#27

HOW about taking this discussion to the "discuss list". That will free up the "user list" for the LO stuff.

I just posted this thread to let people know, but I just looked and it seems to be the dominate thread on that list instead of LO questions.

I am as guilty as others, but it is either time to end the thread or shift it over to a different list.

Tim L.
the original poster for this thread.