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That's exactly was happening to me with the Google Calendar add-in!
I have Opensuse 12.2, Thunderbird 15.0, Lightning 1.7, Provider 0.16 and my Google calendars are working fine.
Steve
Just had a classic from my boss.
*snip*
He still says there is no problem with IE.
The point is not that there are plenty of hopelessly IT-illiterate
morons out there, the point is imho that it's exactly these
IT-illiterate morons who "decide" about what those people who have to do
the actual work have to "work" with.
Sincerely,
Wolfgang
May I suggest to discuss the Google calender issue in a different thread?
The statement above is a pretty good one. Bingo!
Just had a classic from my boss.
*snip*
He still says there is no problem with IE.
The point is not that there are plenty of hopelessly IT-illiterate
morons out there, the point is imho that it's exactly these
IT-illiterate morons who "decide" about what those people who have to do
the actual work have to "work" with.
+1, In the US they are called "Pointy Haired Boss" of PHB
Hi, you all clever guys,
I don't think this list is meant for naming or humiliating any others -- not people, nor programs, nor anything -- that behavior rather works like boomerang and shows the quality level of these naming and blaming.
I am eagerly looking forward to the day when a seriously made and officially published SWOT analyses -- all costs included -- will give as result that is to LibO's favor compared with commercial suites like MSO.
That is a very healthy process for every kind of decision making both for companies and privates.
If MSO is a 90% market leader all its users cannot be complete idiots.
The very simple fact is: LibO has to become better in a SWOT analysis!
Idealism is a good power if correctly focused -- extremism never.
Pertti Rönnberg
Dear Wolfgang & Jay,
A. so in your opinion people - both young and old - not yet knowing anything about computers, perhaps buying their first unit, are - not only "IT-illiterate" but also "morons"
B. so you agree that among these "IT-illiterate morons (= idiots)" are bosses, persons in chief position (managers).
When responsible for their dept's/company's strategic and operative effectiveness and economical result, these "IT-illiterate morons" decide about the need of an IT-department -- and employ an IT-manager to that department to take care of the company's IT-system, programs and personnel included.
Are you not barking at a wrong tree - is it not this your IT-superior you should bark at?
I take it obvious that neither of you can be in a manager position.
C. Obviously you qualify yourselves as highly "IT-literate" -- perhaps even "non-morons".
Some weeks ago LibO invited people to take part to make LibO better.
Would it not be an good idea that you - instead of blaming others - took the opportunity to practice your high quality IT-knowledge to the benefit of LibO.
Best regards
Pertti Rönnberg
Pertti,
As a Dutch (now retired) manager of a small business in IT I must disagree. Yes, Jay and Wolfgang are not very polite but they surely are right. I won't call them "morons" or "idiots" but choosers for safety on false grounds.
Don't forget a salesman in a computer-shop will never tell a person that he could use Open Source software when he can sell him buggy Microsoft software with a profit of > 30%. He will tell him that on his computer only certified Microsoft software will work correctly. You and I know its complete nonsense but an IT-illiterate layman - especially those that are afraid of everything technical - believes him. The same goes for managers with even less interest in technical matters and a willing ear for equals who sells him there stuff.
It is not for nothing that governments (Peru, Germany and many others) demand the use of Open Source software instead of the use of closed source, dangerous and expensive software. Twenty years ago the hard- and software world was completely different and there Microsoft has made his largest impact using unlawful methods to make everybody believe their software was the only one to be used.A small governmental action contrary was when the European Committee forced Microsoft to pay a fine of > $ 500,000 and to remove Internet explorer as integral part of their OS. But the main objection against the activities of Microsoft remain valid: the disinformation of managers and decisional people on the fact that they have to pay yearly for service not delivered. Since 1981 when Microsoft began to SELL software the buyer owned the software. Now Microsoft want to steal the ownership from the buyer by stating that the software is not bought but leased. That is wrong. Software running on a remote system not owned by the buyer - and running only there - can be leased just as installed software on a leased system. In all other cases the software is owned.
Moreover, when I buy a car and after a day my car is broken in due to an unreliable lock, I get all refunded. Tell that to Microsoft!!
Joep
Dear Wolfgang & Jay,
A. so in your opinion people - both young and old - not yet knowing
anything about computers, perhaps buying their first unit, are - not
only "IT-illiterate" but also "morons"
IT - illiterate does not mean moron but sometimes IT - illiterate act
like morons when they make decisions not based on facts but hype.
B. so you agree that among these "IT-illiterate morons (= idiots)"
are bosses, persons in chief position (managers).
When responsible for their dept's/company's strategic and operative
effectiveness and economical result, these "IT-illiterate morons"
decide about the need of an IT-department -- and employ an IT-manager
to that department to take care of the company's IT-system, programs
and personnel included.
Are you not barking at a wrong tree - is it not this your IT-superior
you should bark at?
I take it obvious that neither of you can be in a manager position.
I have been in management and have had bosses who being IT-illiterate
would be an improvement. One boss insisted that he make the decisions
about software, etc. and the other delegated the decision to those that
knew something about computers.
Both were small companies.
C. Obviously you qualify yourselves as highly "IT-literate" --
perhaps even "non-morons".
Some weeks ago LibO invited people to take part to make LibO better.
Would it not be an good idea that you - instead of blaming others -
took the opportunity to practice your high quality IT-knowledge to the
benefit of LibO.
IT - literate, some what. My limits are coding; not particularly good at
it mostly because it has always been an ancillary job function.
The more I see and watch the more I see old methods dressed up as new
and hyped - SaaS, Cloud, etc. I remember dumb terminals on VAX computers
- essentially SaaS but called timesharing. Cloud computing has been
around since the early days of networking; the only difference is who
owns the servers running the data center. Note, I am not oppose (they do
offer some benefits) either but detest the excessive hyping and bogus
advertising.
Hello Joep,
Thank you for your reply.
I am happy to say I had the privilege to in business visit your very beautiful and interesting country - and especially Amsterdam - some times very, very many years ago.
I am also retired since ten years back and used to work on manager level in some companies mostly in metal industry, planning and delivering plants.
But not IT, I am an IT consumer since early 1980 - so you surely know that IT field from 'inside' better than me but I know quite well the decision making in my former environments.
I have for years been very well aware of all what you say about MS's behavior and marketing policy - I agree with you completely and do dislike the situation as much as you.
In many (most) companies/organizations (other than IT) the managers have quite little own knowledge in IT why they do not have many alternatives: they have to buy the IT from outside (more or less) experts or build up a IT-dept of their own. In both cases they have to rely on other people's knowhow and recommendations.
And if all (95% ?) your important contacts, customers, officials, private, etc. use Windows, and all of your own staff know (only) Windows/MSO then the economic calculation says that you must "talk the same language" -- you can not afford anything else.
I strongly disagree with you about Jay's and Wolfgang' s behavior - take a look at my parallel post "MS problems" some minutes earlier.
If these managers concentrate on their own jobs - and buy the IT - it does not qualify them to be called "IT-illiteral morons" as Jay and Wolfgang did.
In 30 years I have had no problems (!) with the Windows' programs (the cost are a relative matter), but from January this year when installing LibO I have had too much problems with Base (and Calc) - and according to this list there are a lot of others having real problems with LibO too.
In my opinion there is only one way for LibO: to become in every way better than MSO especially for ordinary private users, user friendly, stable, reliable, free of bugs and problems. These will then make it easier for companies to convert to OpenSource/LibO.
Best regards
Pertti Rönnberg (Finland)
The End!
Well Pertti,
Endangering myself to go after your End(!) I have never used Microsoft products except when clients needed to have links with WIndows programs but I lived in luxury as we represented Silicon Graphics an the products we sold and supported either specific or Internet related. However I must confess that for administrative tasks we used Windows related applications (WordPerfect and some Borland related spreadsheets programs) as the unix workstations were used either for graphics or network-related tasks.
But I remember our technical people all grumbling about the lousy Windows as OS and they preferred to let some whizzkid we had as apprentice to solve Windows problems.
Before I had my company (~ '75 - '90) I was head of a neuroscience department where we did real-time signal analysis on EEG-signals and all systems (Intel 286) used DOS as OS for the programs (mostly FORTRAN & PASCAL).Further signal analysis was done on a PDP-11's so we're talking about another era where PC's barely existed. There is a nice anecdote about the CEO of DEC who was presented with a "PC" (the DEC-1) in '79 and he refused to take it into production as he was convinced that nobody would buy such a toy! Little did he know.....
Joep
Ken Olson of DEC (paraphrasing) said that he did not see why people
would need or want a computer in their homes (or PC's workstations in
the office). Of course DEC sold mini-computers and networked PC's would
eventually destroy that market. DEC is one of many dead computer companies.
Hi 
+1
Many apols for my somewhat negative posts!
Apols and regards from
Tom
Hello Pertti,
I couldn't agree more with you! I used to work for Mother Blue for nearly
30 years, dealing with large customers as a systems engineer. Even then
it occurred to me from time to time that we IT specialists thought that
IT was the only worthwhile endeavour. But, clearly, the business of a steel
firm is to produce steel, banks, well..., shipping companies and their
managers worry about shipping, travel agencies about holiday makers, etc.,
etc., and not to be proficient in IT.
IT is basically just a TOOL which they employ to get THEIR business done.
Just because somebody doesn't know C++ or Java, he/she is by no means a
"moron". IBM had/has excellent products. Selling these to customers was
never easy by any means - we were usually somewhat more costly. But, buying
from the "world standard" was SAFE, and service was RELIABLE even on night
shifts.
IT managers of sizable companies need a LOT of courage and stamina to
turn their back on the "main stream".
As an aside - I have been using Open Software for decades now and will
continue to do so (Apache, MySQL, OO/LO, Squirrelmail, Courier,..., etc.,
etc.). I don't like monopolies! But then, I only look after a 50-piece
brass band... (www.rainermusik.at)
Regards from Salzburg
H. S.
Personally, this entire thread is a waste of time. Who cares who is a "moron" as far as IT is concerned? Why complain about anything unless you are going to do something about it? There is not a single person that has contributed to this thread that is too old to contribute to making LO better.
Yes, LO needs to be made better and the documentation needs to be improved. But what are you doing about it? If you aren't doing anything to improve it, you are wasting your time typing words that serve no real purpose.
I'm working to make the documentation better. What are you doing about it? Sorry, but no excuses are allowed in your answer. I don't use them so you can't either. Oh, using the phrase "I can't" usually is the equivalent to "I won't" and the latter may well be the real meaning.
--Dan
Gosh, Dan!
What am I doing about LO? Well, for ONE thing, I push it in my organisation
and elsewhere. Unfortunately I really don't have the time to do much more than
spreading the gospel...
Over and out!
H.S.
Gosh, Dan!
What am I doing about LO? Well, for ONE thing, I push it in my organisation
and elsewhere. Unfortunately I really don't have the time to do much more than
spreading the gospel...
Over and out!
H.S.
I don't think anyone has to show activist credentials to have an opinion on these matters, and I don't find discussion of them pointless, to the contrary, it is instructive and interesting to me. moreover if a person does find it pointless, the solution is not to contribute to the thread and to cease reading it.
I do worry though that it is pretty off-topic for a technical list and that is probably sufficient and good reason to declare it over, that is, if someone actually had the authority to declare it over.
oh, and I am definitely a 'moron' about certain things. not sure why that's so terrible to say. matter of taste, I suppose.
F.
As much as I hate "me too!" e-mails...
+1
[...]
> The rental model, in theory,
guarantees a stabler cash flow whether the software rental is good for
users is another matter.
I totally agree.
At $WORK we had a 3D CAD package that would not work anymore if the licence was not renewed periodically.
We eventually switched to a 3D package that had a heftier tag price, but didn't force us to pay every year just to use it.
When the licence for the first package expired, we lost access to all of our previous work. We had to convert everything in a hurry.
It's OK to pay for software "maintenance" (i.e. updates, priority support, etc.), but I find it totally unacceptable to have a software package just stop working if you don't pay the "rent". If I was writing in italian I'd call it "pizzo" - which is a mafia thing - "Stop paying and you'll lose access to your beloved documents!".
How does it sound ?