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Hey All,
Not trying to be rude. All of you should be smart enough to run an email tool. After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux installation.
For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on "libreoffice-users" in the subject line. That should get all your email to the right folder.
you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.
That <reply list> button is apparently a function of this list. It isn't on any other list that I subscribe to.
Many thanks to the list managers who took care of this problem.
David Teague
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.
I primarily use SUSE but also osx and win. I support Anne.
If (as an example only) 80% of LO potential is win based and this is the target for growth then to be non-exclusive and encourage advancement in the win platform the support list should cater for the most common win. mail applications. Browser (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.) or outlook.
If we are trying to stifle growth and keep LO in the linux club, then make it easy for linux users and less convenient for others.
Steve
Hello everyone,
I just wanted to thank everyone for your feedback, and assure you that I read every bit, even if I don't manage to reply to every message in detail.
My offer stands valid, let's wait for some more feedback and some more days, and then make a final decision.
Florian
Steve, you're so right; thank you for some statistics.
I primarily use SUSE but also osx and win. I support Anne.
I filter on email address.
LibreO - Website folder gets <website@global.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Projects Global folder gets <projects@global.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Marketing US folder gets <marketing@us.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Marketing Global folder gets <marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Users Global folder gets <users@global.libreoffice.org>
So each list goes into its own folder in Thunderbird.
I also have different folders for newsletters, friends, family, organizations I deal with, domain related, purchases via Amazon and PayPal accounts, etc., etc.. All of these folders are based on email address filtering and not subject line filtering. So, once I get an email from a "proper source", then I get to decide which folder that email address will go into. Subject lines and other filtering methods do not work as well for me. Every email that gets left in the general "inbox", that I am sharing with 12 email addresses I check with Thunderbird, could be potential SPAM or missed valid emails from known people. Some of the emails I receive that come from addresses that are automatically forwarded to my TRASH folder without me ever seeing any emails from those "known" SPAM sites/addresses. 95% of the all the daily emails I receive will go into a folder instead of the "default inbox". Most of those that come into that inbox are from people or companies I have not received from before. So, I get only a few "unknown" emails to go through myself. Works for me.
Another method is to have multiple e-addresses -
in this way, the e-address will remain valid even if the ISP
changes 
each e-address is known to certain ones; I log-in to the
e-address I wish to peruse then go on to the next one, etc.
[and I'll filter within each as well]
BTW - my categories vary - from computer-helping to
computer-continuing-education to writing, ... to political and news to
humour ... ... ... then there's genealogical and historical to UTube
postings
webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
Hello,
this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
(so-called "Reply to mangling" has been disabled).So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
automatically sent directly to the list.In the past, this lead to two major problems:
1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
hit "reply" and thought it would reply to the sender only.2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
one way to find out...Therefore, I have applied a change:
Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
either need to use the "reply to all" feature of your e-mail program, or
- preferably - the "reply to list"/"reply to group" feature, which will
direct replies directly to the list.This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.htmlI know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
mutually exclusive to each other.In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
again, I beg for your understanding.Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
somehow sitting between two chairs here.Florian
Hey All,
Not trying to be rude. All of you should be smart enough to run an email tool. After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux installation.
For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on "libreoffice-users" in the subject line. That should get all your email to the right folder.
I filter on email address.
LibreO - Website folder gets <website@global.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Projects Global folder gets <projects@global.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Marketing US folder gets <marketing@us.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Marketing Global folder gets <marketing@global.libreoffice.org>
LibreO - Users Global folder gets <users@global.libreoffice.org>So each list goes into its own folder in Thunderbird.
I also have different folders for newsletters, friends, family, organizations I deal with, domain related, purchases via Amazon and PayPal accounts, etc., etc.. All of these folders are based on email address filtering and not subject line filtering. So, once I get an email from a "proper source", then I get to decide which folder that email address will go into. Subject lines and other filtering methods do not work as well for me. Every email that gets left in the general "inbox", that I am sharing with 12 email addresses I check with Thunderbird, could be potential SPAM or missed valid emails from known people. Some of the emails I receive that come from addresses that are automatically forwarded to my TRASH folder without me ever seeing any emails from those "known" SPAM sites/addresses. 95% of the all the daily emails I receive will go into a folder instead of the "default inbox". Most of those that come into that inbox are from people or companies I have not received from before. So, I get only a few "unknown" emails to go through myself. Works for me.
Webmaster...,
That's sort of what I do. I think I discovered the secret. In this group now, it appears when someone "Reply-All"s to a posting, The "To:" comes from the "From:" posting header entry, which is the poster's address and not practical to filter on in this case. However, the group address (users@global.libreoffice.org) is inserted into the "Cc:" field. So, tried using "users@global.libreoffice.org" in both the "Cc:" filter field as well as the "To:" filter field. I don't know what side-effects this will generate in the long run, but it seems to be working for me so far. I never filter on "Subject:" unless there is some constant in there to grab onto and it is the only option. Another poster above suggested filtering on the "[libreoffice-users]" in the subject field. That should work, but I don't trust it to stay constant. However, that is an option.
Girvin Herr
It is fine the way it is as of now, in fact I quite like the change as
it means I no longer get broken threads in my inbox which leads to it
being cluttered. so my vote lies with the change, I use to use a Linux
machine but found it beyond my comprehension so migrated back to
windows. Florian you made a good choice and I am glad that you have made
it and it must be noted that no matter what one can do you will never be
able to please everybody as that is one of the raw elements of human
nature because as I am sure your all aware humans do no not generally
like a lot of change of difference and that is one of the major root
causes of all disputes!
Regards
Anthony
this is the way it works in 'alpine' so this post will be sent under "To:" to you and "webmaster-kracked_p_p" while "Reply:" goes to the list.
to me it feels like an inversion of the 'natural order' since I don't want to post to either of you _specifically_.
I am not sure the consequences are dire at least in the case of 'alpine'; for instance, I believe the list management software prevents duplication of posts.
but I guess I still don't get the point of this change. so some people do want to address individuals and forget they have aimed their email at the list? how does this change help those forgetful sorts?
F.
I would bet that you have used a Linux based machine..... and you just never knew it. Seems like Linux is everywhere. Seems that I own a DVR, a fancy Panasonic DVD player, and a phone that all seem to be based on Linux. It is everywhere, we just don't know it!
The questions on your poll are rather "leading". The items you have selected as questions are really not the issue at all.
This list is still a list, what else could it be? You're using it right now as you're complaining about it. So clearly, it's not private communication at all. You simply have to make a conscious decision as to whom you wish to reply to. Yes, you must _think_ about it for a second or two until you get used to the new way. (And you know what? You did it! Otherwise I wouldn't be seeing your message right now. Was it really that hard?)
webmaster-Kracked_P_P stated exactly that. To wit: /I am so use to pressing "Reply" and the next button being "Reply All", that I now have to remember to skip the "Reply" button and remember that the "Reply All" button has been replaced with "Reply List"./
Seriously? We're complaining about remembering to move the mouse a hair to the right? And it's become a major issue among the users here? I think there's more discussion about this then there is voter turnout (apologies to the non-voting countries).
What you're really saying is you don't want to change your habits. That, I can understand; old habits die hard. However, with a little effort and a little practice the new way will soon grow on you and you'll eventually forget what it was you were so upset about.
Now I don't know what email client you're using and perhaps it's a hassle for you in some other way. Is that the case? I'm using Thunderbird and so I simply hit "Reply List" instead of "Reply". Not a big deal. It takes an extra nanosecond to make the conscious decision to hit one button instead of another. Do you have to do more work than that?
Back in my day, we had to hike 10 miles uphill in the snow to press a different button and we were happy to do it
exactly.
Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual list
or
(2) to change this from a list to private
communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
the ins & outs of LO.I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the thread
by mistake. I am so use to pressing "Reply" and the next button being
"Reply All", that I now have to remember to skip the "Reply" button and
remember that the "Reply All" button has been replaced with "Reply List".
This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the reply
posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead the
"How can I know which one is a spam?" thread in the Website list.I nearly sent this posting to "anne-ology" instead of the User list. This
is going to be a problem, maybe.exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this
list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing
the
list to hear what's new and learn from others.I did not know that you could "make" the email client state "Reply List"
instead of the text on the "Reply All" button. I run Thunderbird 14.0.
I have to get use to using the "Reply List" instead of "Reply" to post a
message to the thread. It could be confusing to people, but does make
it
easier to send a message to the poster, off list. I use to copy the
address of the poster and then paste it to my "To:" section. This will
be
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use
the
"new" "Reply List" button instead of the "Reply" button.myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I
had
trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
('hucksterism') in.the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not
a
big deal for me since I mostly lurk.F.
--
Felmon Davis
//
My feedback is that I don't like the change at all.
Most of the mailing lists I subscribe to nowadays (~50 lists) are on Yahoo or Google, and none of them behaves like this, with no Reply-To field. They all have the standard Reply-To list field.
And so do the few non-Yahoo/Google lists. LO is now the only exception, and I actually out of old habit replied to your post as I always do to lists (and emails), before I noticed that I was writing to your email instead of to the list.
Please switch back!
Why not 'Reply to List' (I use the keyboard shortcut, CTRL-SHIFT-L)?
Thunderbird added this a long time ago...
That said, I agree that discussion lists (like this one) that are *not* discussing what would be considered 'private' issues - ie, like an email list for battered wives, etc - should always default to Reply-To munging (reply to the list address)...
Anything else just greatly reduces the effectiveness of the list.
Wrong.
In Thunderbird, just use the 'From, To, Cc or Bcc' option...
exactly.
My feedback is that I don't like the change at all.
yes, I agree.
I make sure the message filter checks if the email address is in any of the options stated above. It really works, except when someone sends the reply to the list and to me directly. At that point I get both messages in the LibreOffice folder based on which list it is part of - i.e. this list is in the "LibreO - Users Global" folder and the website list uses "LibreO - Website" folder.
I have been using Thunderbird for many years. The only problem I have is I cannot save the message filters. When I have a system crash [when using Windows] and had to reinstall Windows, I had no ability to reload the message filters as I can with the saved emails and address-book. When I went from Windows to Ubuntu for my default system, I had to rebuild the Message Filtering that had several years of "growth" that I had to rebuild from scratch.
-- off topic ---
I currently read my emails from only one computer - my Ubuntu 10.04 desktop. If I need to deal with emails on a different computer, I use my domain/email hosting system's web-mail system. Since I use the Ubuntu desktop, a Dell laptop running Ubuntu 12.04/MATE and Vista, HP laptop running XP/pro, an Android tablet, a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop attached to my HD-TV set for the types of Internet audio/video that my Blu-ray player cannot do, and a few more desktops running Ubuntu or XP that are spares or will be given to others who need them and cannot afford to buy one themselves.
With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a mess if I tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I could get a sync system to work properly between the various Windows and Ubuntu systems.
I currently use a 1 TB and a 2 TB USB external hard drive[s] for backing up my main Ubuntu desktop [it has the two drives - 1 TB and 2 TB - installed]. Then I can use these external drives to play AVI and MPG/MP4 files on my TV via the Blu-ray player or listen to audio books with the ability to deal with the volume and play/pause controls of the Blu-ray player and not having to get up out of my comfy chair to do so with my computer. The down side of this is the USB drives must be Windows formatted and it takes a long time to defrag/optimize the 2 TB drive. With 324 GB free space on that drive, it has been over 26 hours running the Auslogics Disk Defrag software on a Dell laptop - Pentium Dual core CPU T3200 @ 2.00 GHz, 32-bit Vista, with 3 GB of RAM.
I must keep the drives formatted to Windows systems so the Windows computers and the Blu-ray player can access them. But that is a small price to pay for having all my media and data file accessible to all my computers and media players that can use an external USB drive. It is much better than having to load up a 32 GB microSD flash card, and use a USB card reader, to share the file[s] between devices. Much slower as well.
and you have how many computers ???
Just wondering, when do you have time for other things? - as eating,
sleeping, or conversing with others - as friends & family;
and when do you tend to various jobs; both work & hobbies ???