SVG embedding in LibreOffice

[Tom_Davies]

________________________________
From: todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 9 June, 2011 13:28:23
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Re: Re: SVG embedding in LibreOffice

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Zak McKracken <zak_mckracken@openoffice.org> wrote:

Am 08.06.2011, 22:41 Uhr, schrieb Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>:

Hi
In OpenOffice and LibreOffice the Export to Pdf option allows you to
choose
"lossless" compression or change the percentage of jpg compression.

Yes, but that applies only to raster graphics, not to vector formats. With
EPS images, only the preview image will be dumped in the pdf.
To summarize: The built-in pdf export preserves my raster graphics but kill
EPS images (for me at least. Some people apparently have very hires preview
images inther EPSs). printing it .ps file and using ps2pdf will preserve the
EPS images and reduce the raster images.
This behaviour has not changed since OOo 1.0

It is also an issue in impress, where there is no printing involved.
EPS images don't show up, SVG images tend to be horribly broken.

Todd

Hi
Is this only problem with 3.4.0? I thought one of the remaining problems was
the non-vector images getting compressed so i was hoping to help you get around
that. Sorry it didn't help.
Good luck and regards from
Tom

[todd_rme]

I haven't tried 3.4, but the EPS images stopped working in 3.3 and SVG
images have never worked. After dicussing the problem, I am not sure
how the EPS images ever worked, perhaps they had embedding that was
stripped somehow. Of course, using the embedded raster image
completely defeats the purpose of using vector artwork in the first
place.

Most of the programs I use for vector artwork can produce EPS or SVG
files just fine, but being able to properly display some sort of
vector artwork in impress seems critical to me. Differences in
projector resolution can seriously degrade the appearance of raster
artwork.

-Todd

[Tom_Davies]

________________________________
From: todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 9 June, 2011 14:04:31
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Re: Re: SVG embedding in LibreOffice

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Zak McKracken > <zak_mckracken@openoffice.org> wrote:

Am 08.06.2011, 22:41 Uhr, schrieb Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>:

Hi
In OpenOffice and LibreOffice the Export to Pdf option allows you to
choose
"lossless" compression or change the percentage of jpg compression.

Yes, but that applies only to raster graphics, not to vector formats. With
EPS images, only the preview image will be dumped in the pdf.
To summarize: The built-in pdf export preserves my raster graphics but kill
EPS images (for me at least. Some people apparently have very hires preview
images inther EPSs). printing it .ps file and using ps2pdf will preserve the
EPS images and reduce the raster images.
This behaviour has not changed since OOo 1.0

It is also an issue in impress, where there is no printing involved.
EPS images don't show up, SVG images tend to be horribly broken.

Todd

Hi
Is this only problem with 3.4.0? I thought one of the remaining problems was
the non-vector images getting compressed so i was hoping to help you get

around

that. Sorry it didn't help.
Good luck and regards from
Tom

I haven't tried 3.4, but the EPS images stopped working in 3.3 and SVG
images have never worked. After dicussing the problem, I am not sure
how the EPS images ever worked, perhaps they had embedding that was
stripped somehow. Of course, using the embedded raster image
completely defeats the purpose of using vector artwork in the first
place.

Most of the programs I use for vector artwork can produce EPS or SVG
files just fine, but being able to properly display some sort of
vector artwork in impress seems critical to me. Differences in
projector resolution can seriously degrade the appearance of raster
artwork.

Todd

Hi
Have bug-reports been posted? I think the issues are quite important to get
fixed.
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport
It's better to avoid the 3.4.0 at the moment unless you like bug-testing.
Regards from
Tom

[krackedpress]

________________________________
From: todd rme<toddrme2178@gmail.com>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 9 June, 2011 14:04:31
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Re: Re: SVG embedding in LibreOffice

From: todd rme<toddrme2178@gmail.com>

Hi
In OpenOffice and LibreOffice the Export to Pdf option allows you to
choose
"lossless" compression or change the percentage of jpg compression.

Yes, but that applies only to raster graphics, not to vector formats. With
EPS images, only the preview image will be dumped in the pdf.
To summarize: The built-in pdf export preserves my raster graphics but kill
EPS images (for me at least. Some people apparently have very hires preview
images inther EPSs). printing it .ps file and using ps2pdf will preserve the
EPS images and reduce the raster images.
This behaviour has not changed since OOo 1.0

It is also an issue in impress, where there is no printing involved.
EPS images don't show up, SVG images tend to be horribly broken.

Todd

Hi
Is this only problem with 3.4.0? I thought one of the remaining problems was
the non-vector images getting compressed so i was hoping to help you get

around

that. Sorry it didn't help.
Good luck and regards from
Tom

I haven't tried 3.4, but the EPS images stopped working in 3.3 and SVG
images have never worked. After dicussing the problem, I am not sure
how the EPS images ever worked, perhaps they had embedding that was
stripped somehow. Of course, using the embedded raster image
completely defeats the purpose of using vector artwork in the first
place.

Most of the programs I use for vector artwork can produce EPS or SVG
files just fine, but being able to properly display some sort of
vector artwork in impress seems critical to me. Differences in
projector resolution can seriously degrade the appearance of raster
artwork.

Todd

So should we still install the SVG Import extension? Does it work properly with LO 3.3.x and 3.4.x?
Or is that import filter really built into the package?

[nunojsilva]

From: todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>

Hi
In OpenOffice and LibreOffice the Export to Pdf option allows you to
choose
"lossless" compression or change the percentage of jpg compression.

Yes, but that applies only to raster graphics, not to vector formats. With
EPS images, only the preview image will be dumped in the pdf.
To summarize: The built-in pdf export preserves my raster graphics but kill
EPS images (for me at least. Some people apparently have very hires preview
images inther EPSs). printing it .ps file and using ps2pdf will preserve the
EPS images and reduce the raster images.
This behaviour has not changed since OOo 1.0

Export to PDF uses the raster previews. Best (and only?) solution for
now is really printing to postscript and converting.

PostScript and PDF are not easy to mix. Even with LaTeX you can't use
EPS when running pdflatex. (You have to convert EPS to PDF)

It is also an issue in impress, where there is no printing involved.
EPS images don't show up, SVG images tend to be horribly broken.

Todd

Hi
Is this only  problem with 3.4.0?  I thought one of the remaining problems was
the non-vector images getting compressed so i was hoping to help you get around
that.  Sorry it didn't help.
Good luck and regards from
Tom

I haven't tried 3.4, but the EPS images stopped working in 3.3 and SVG
images have never worked. After dicussing the problem, I am not sure
how the EPS images ever worked, perhaps they had embedding that was
stripped somehow. Of course, using the embedded raster image
completely defeats the purpose of using vector artwork in the first
place.

At least on older versions -- don't know if this still applies -- OOo
would generate a preview if the image had no raster preview, but as that
involved a funny bug involving endless calls to ImageMagick's convert
when the raster previews were too big to be cached, maybe that was
disabled.

A quick test with a random EPS I found shows me a preview raster, with

  LibreOffice 3.3.2
  OOO330m19 (Build:202)
  tag libreoffice-3.3.2.2

But I don't know if the image has a preview raster builtin.

Most of the programs I use for vector artwork can produce EPS or SVG
files just fine, but being able to properly display some sort of
vector artwork in impress seems critical to me. Differences in
projector resolution can seriously degrade the appearance of raster
artwork.

LibO also supports Windows MetaFile and Enhanced MetaFile. IIRC they
have some issues (or maybe the metafiles I was using were badly
converted). But you can try converting your EPS to EMF and see if the
result is good enough.

I've some notes around here saying it's done with pstoedit, with the
option to generate EMF.

The same notes mention running fixps, generating svg with pstoedit and
converting back to eps with inkscape -- this was probably a workaroud
for some postscript files that pstoedit didn't like.

[Steve_Edmonds]

Hi, just tried and on my mac, LO 3.4, eps images show the vector art in Impress.
LO either passes the image off to the OS for display or mac code has EPS display fixed.
steve

[NoOp]

http://download.openoffice.org/next/other.html#dev2
and
http://download.openoffice.org/all_beta.html
(linux Intel DEB)

The latter one, 3.4 beta1. But I tested it only on Windows XP.

Just tried on WinXP & it does indeed work there. So their linux version
has issues. I'll add a note to the bug report.

and on both I get 'Graphics filter note found' when attempting to import
an SVG (Writer, Draw, Impress).

Did you use "File -> import", or did you try "Insert -> image -> from
file"? I'm talking about the latter one, since it is about using it as an
image, not importing it as editable drawing.

...
The latter (Insert|Picture|From File).

[nunojsilva]

OO and LO print EPS correctly for me to non-eps printers (my epson
C87), printing the vector graphics cleanly. Mac and Linux, both use
CUPS as the print engine. Are you printing from Linux, what printer
driver are you using.
steve

Very strange, for me they definitely do not print correctly.
I'm printing from my Windows XP PC to a Canon iP5000, and all I get is
the same as in the PDF export, which is the eps preview image.

[...]

I'm very curious if you can
- print it directly from LO to a non-eps printer, and
- convert it to pdf
while getting the full verctor graphics goodness out of it.

[...]

Hi. This might be a windows bug (just the way windows prints, and always
has).

AFAIK, CUPS relies on ghostscript, a postscript interpretator, and it
seems LibO prints in postscript when using CUPS. While in windows
printing is done by GDI, which is different.

So while with CUPS priting always generates postscript, in windows it
only generates if the printer driver does the GDI->PostScript
translation.

[Zak_McKracken]

I'll gladly do bug-testing on the proper SVG feature I'm rooting for here.
I'm just not sure whether a feature that I want which LO does not have classifies as "bug". With the issue tracker for OOo, there was a "feature" type of issue. In Bugzilla, there does not seem to be such a category. Or does anyone here know more?

Zak

[nunojsilva]

I guess you just need to pick:

   Severity: enhancement

(That is, IMHO a feature request is an enhancement.)

[John_B]

Is there an area where Feature Requests are posted?

John B

[todd_rme]

Yes, a bunch:
svg (LibreOffice Bugzilla): 36511, 36520, 37895, 37994, 34720, 36154,
36890, 37072, 31460, 33554, 32248
eps (OpenOffice.org Bugzilla): 12059, 117071, 93629, 84177, 24254
The discussion in the first eps bug I listed I took to basically be
saying that the developers were happy enough with the existing
functionality (rendering previews) so this bug was not going to be
fixed, so I never bothered making a new one in the LibreOffice
bugzilla. Is there any point requesting support for native eps
rendering, or are the LibreOffice developers of the same opinion as
the one stated in this bug?

-Todd

[randy_janur]

Is there an area where Feature Requests are posted?

John B

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dear john,
             try http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Crazy_Ideas
-this is the closest i have seen to a feature requests page.

regards,
Randy janur

[Manfred_J_Krause]

Hi,

Is there an area where Feature Requests are posted?

For example:

(1) FreeDesktop Bugzilla
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_severity=enhancement&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced&order=bug_id%20DESC&query_based_on=

(2) Vote for Enhancement
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement

(3) Development/Crazy Ideas
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Crazy_Ideas

mjk

[Tom_Davies]

________________________________
From: todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Fri, 10 June, 2011 13:05:26
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Re: Re: SVG embedding in LibreOffice

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 9 June, 2011 14:04:31
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Re: Re: SVG embedding in LibreOffice

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: todd rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Zak McKracken >> <zak_mckracken@openoffice.org> wrote:

Am 08.06.2011, 22:41 Uhr, schrieb Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>:

Hi
In OpenOffice and LibreOffice the Export to Pdf option allows you to
choose
"lossless" compression or change the percentage of jpg compression.

Yes, but that applies only to raster graphics, not to vector formats. With
EPS images, only the preview image will be dumped in the pdf.
To summarize: The built-in pdf export preserves my raster graphics but kill
EPS images (for me at least. Some people apparently have very hires preview
images inther EPSs). printing it .ps file and using ps2pdf will preserve the
EPS images and reduce the raster images.
This behaviour has not changed since OOo 1.0

It is also an issue in impress, where there is no printing involved.
EPS images don't show up, SVG images tend to be horribly broken.

Todd

Hi
Is this only problem with 3.4.0? I thought one of the remaining problems

was

the non-vector images getting compressed so i was hoping to help you get

around

that. Sorry it didn't help.
Good luck and regards from
Tom

I haven't tried 3.4, but the EPS images stopped working in 3.3 and SVG
images have never worked. After dicussing the problem, I am not sure
how the EPS images ever worked, perhaps they had embedding that was
stripped somehow. Of course, using the embedded raster image
completely defeats the purpose of using vector artwork in the first
place.

Most of the programs I use for vector artwork can produce EPS or SVG
files just fine, but being able to properly display some sort of
vector artwork in impress seems critical to me. Differences in
projector resolution can seriously degrade the appearance of raster
artwork.

Todd

Hi
Have bug-reports been posted? I think the issues are quite important to get
fixed.

Yes, a bunch:
svg (LibreOffice Bugzilla): 36511, 36520, 37895, 37994, 34720, 36154,
36890, 37072, 31460, 33554, 32248
eps (OpenOffice.org Bugzilla): 12059, 117071, 93629, 84177, 24254
The discussion in the first eps bug I listed I took to basically be
saying that the developers were happy enough with the existing
functionality (rendering previews) so this bug was not going to be
fixed, so I never bothered making a new one in the LibreOffice
bugzilla. Is there any point requesting support for native eps
rendering, or are the LibreOffice developers of the same opinion as
the one stated in this bug?

Todd

Hi
I would post again but to the LibreOffice bug-team this time. OpenOffice had
different owners and had to deal with different constraints. A high percentage
of devs in LibreOffice are new and the ones that aren't have finally been freed
to get on with stuff.

Regards from
Tom

[Tom_Davies]

Hi
This guide might help?
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport

I think i would post as a normal bug but put "[wish-list]" at the start of the
subject-line (unless the guide has better advice!)
Regards from
Tom

[todd_rme]

Hi
Have bug-reports been posted?  I think the issues are quite important to get
fixed.

Yes, a bunch:
svg (LibreOffice Bugzilla): 36511, 36520, 37895, 37994, 34720, 36154,
36890, 37072, 31460, 33554, 32248
eps (OpenOffice.org Bugzilla): 12059, 117071, 93629, 84177, 24254
The discussion in the first eps bug I listed I took to basically be
saying that the developers were happy enough with the existing
functionality (rendering previews) so this bug was not going to be
fixed, so I never bothered making a new one in the LibreOffice
bugzilla.  Is there any point requesting support for native eps
rendering, or are the LibreOffice developers of the same opinion as
the one stated in this bug?

Todd

Hi
I would post again but to the LibreOffice bug-team this time.  OpenOffice had
different owners and had to deal with different constraints.  A high percentage
of devs in LibreOffice are new and the ones that aren't have finally been freed
to get on with stuff.

Regards from
Tom

Done: Bug 38161

So what is the decision on the svg embedding? For me at lest SVG
support is even more important than EPS support.

-Todd

[cornouws]

Hi all,

todd rme wrote (10-06-11 18:05)

So what is the decision on the svg embedding?

Sorry, I've not been able to keep up with this mail discussion. (Still owe people from last weeks Monday /Tuesday a reply :-\ )

I had a look some days ago and got the impression that there were differences between LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org . And maybe some more things.
What I have been told, is that certain changes for OOO 3.4.0 rc, have not been implemented in LibreOffice at the moment, but that it is the intention to do that at a next minor release. So that would be 3.5.0

Maybe this explains part of the situation (or maybe it even already has been written by someone )

Cheers,

[nunojsilva]

Hi all,

todd rme wrote (10-06-11 18:05)

So what is the decision on the svg embedding?

Sorry, I've not been able to keep up with this mail discussion. (Still
owe people from last weeks Monday /Tuesday a reply :-\ )

I apologize for making it harder for you to keep up, by adding another
message to the thread!

I had a look some days ago and got the impression that there were
differences between LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org . And maybe some
more things.

I guess there's "some more thing": NoOp could only see the better
embedding in OOo *for Windows*, not in Linux:

,----[NoOp's message of Thu, 09 Jun 2011 10:19:37 -0700]

>> http://download.openoffice.org/next/other.html#dev2
>> and
>> http://download.openoffice.org/all_beta.html
>> (linux Intel DEB)
>
> The latter one, 3.4 beta1. But I tested it only on Windows XP.

Just tried on WinXP & it does indeed work there. So their linux version
has issues. I'll add a note to the bug report.

`----

Maybe the windows version uses some windows-only library, or even
windows built-in features to handle SVG?

What I have been told, is that certain changes for OOO 3.4.0 rc, have
not been implemented in LibreOffice at the moment, but that it is the
intention to do that at a next minor release. So that would be 3.5.0

Integration takes time, so, yes, I'd expect some kind of delay.

Maybe this explains part of the situation (or maybe it even already
has been written by someone )

It explains.

But I'm curious about the windows-only bit.

[Steve_Edmonds]

Hi. May be the same handling that allows the Mac to show EPSs correctly on screen, from the vector art and not from the preview.
steve