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#21

From: kshahid57@hotmail.com

#22

I think that Tom has a point here. Mailing lists were around for really long
time and they are pretty convenient for people who are used to them. But most
of computer/Internet users these days are not. They like simple web interface
of bulletin boards software (also called "forums"). They can't configure their
e-mail software (even most web interfaces provide needed features) to move all
traffic from specific source (mailing list) into separate folder. I think that
they are just overwhelmed by whole new experience with mailing list. And this
causes frustration...

I know there is that Nabble gateway, but it seems that there may be two
problems with it (I don't know if any is valid, since I don't use it):

1. registered people still get mails from mailing list, although they prefer
to check for new messages themselves on webpage.

2. It is too hidden. On page <http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-
lists/> classic mailing lists are exposed, while Nabble gateway is only
mentioned. Perhaps this page should focus on Nabble gateway, while classic
mailing lists addresses should be only mentioned (maybe moved to another
page?). People who would like to use mailing lists would find info they need,
while inexperienced users would not be bothered by whole mailing lists stuff,
about which they neither know nor care.

#23

Hi :slight_smile:
Thanks :slight_smile: Andreas Sager had good points too. Actually it is possible to
subscribe using a "nomail" option but again it's waaay beyond the abilities
of most normal users that just sign-up to get a single simple question
answered. ie you have to un-subcribe from the normal list and re-subscribe
to a different address! lol.

I think one person frustration led him/her to post the same email to
multiple threads that he/she hadn't wanted to receive in the first place.
It might have seemed rude but it's no more rude than what this list does by
it's very nature.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#24

Hello Mirosław,

of computer/Internet users these days are not. They like simple web
interface of bulletin boards software (also called "forums"). They
can't configure their

It really is a lot easier via email. I subscribe to 70 or so mailing
lists. If they were all web forums, I'd have gone mad by now going
from web site to web site, logging in, finding any and all new messages,
reading those of interest, then marking everything else as unread.

Yes, a bit of configuration has to be done to filter list mail
appropriately in my MUA but after that's done, I hit *ONE* button and
*everything* is delivered and sorted. "Peace of piss", as we say around
here.

I really don't have the time to run around the abortion that web forums
are.

#25

Hi,

A proper official forum such as most modern projects use
(Firefox, Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint and so on and on) would neatly
avoid all sorts of recurring problems.

Are you sure? :smiley:

100% sure. Mailing lists are perfect for collaboration in teams.
They are totally inadequate for end user support.

I did not intend to reinitiate the old discussion about having
forums or not. I just wanted to express my doubts, that a forum
would <quote>avoid all sorts of recurring problems</quote>.

A forum would certainly not help against people, that manage to
subscribe to a mailinglist, but won´t manage to unsubscribe, for
some unexplainable reason.

Stefan

#26

Hi :slight_smile:
Forums usually allow the hard-core mailing-list fans to subscribe to one, many or all threads in the forum so the net result would be about the same for you.  It would just reduce the amount of complex stuff that less sophisticated users would have to do in order to see answers to the one-and-only thread they are interested in. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#27

Am 20.01.2012 13:12, Stefan Weigel wrote:

A forum would certainly not help against people, that manage to
subscribe to a mailinglist, but won´t manage to unsubscribe, for
some unexplainable reason.

Stefan

The reason might be trollism against the project and/or some malware which registers victims to mailing lists.
In a well moderated forum the problem does not exist. Spam and obvious rant is removable before thousands of people take notice of it.
An unused subscription simply does nothing.

#28

Forums usually allow the hard-core mailing-list fans to subscribe
to one, many or all threads in the forum so the net result would be
about the same for you.

It really isn't the same. You've got to go to the forum to see what the
conversation is to then subscribe to a thread. All the time. And even if it
does email you about messages in a thread, you have to go to the forum to reply,
and sometimes to view the message too. A mailing list delivers it all to your
own mailbox and then you can have your evil way with it there.

I'm not arguing against changing to forums (although I'm not very keen on them
for the same reasons that Brad puts forward), I'm just reiterating that they
REALLY are very different in the way one interacts with them.

Regards
Mark Stanton
One small step for mankind...

#29

Hi :slight_smile:
It sounds as though you haven't tried Launchpad forums.  You might have to register to really see what i mean
https://launchpad.net/
Click on one of the projects down the right-hand-side.  Then somewhere on the right click on "Answers" to get to their forums.

I agree that many forums are not set-up like that. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#30

Except that you then have to log into the forum to respond...

Forums suck for active discussion like this for people who are active in many different venues... they are great however for a Help' type of repository.

That said, there is no reason we couldn't have both... and one thing I'd like to see are official forums that are populated with answers to FAQs asked on the lists that people can be referred to if all they want is an answer to one specific question...

#31

Well, hoping this can put an end to this twist in the thread, and to
save Florian from having to say it.

There is an AskBot web service being readied for service in the very
near future (can't give you a date, as I don't know it), and would
strongly urge people preferring a web forum to give this service a
reasonable try.

I first looked at this type of service sceptically, but I put a fair bit
of time to really look at it and the more I dug into it the more
attractive it became. I'm not saying it will make everyone happy but I
think it deserves very serious consideration.

//drew

ps there is a test instance of the software up, but it seems rather
broken at the moment..so if you don't already have the URL I'll pass on
posting it to this email.

#32

Hi :slight_smile:
Hmm, oddly in Launchpad forums you can respond by email.  You get an email from the forum and the email contains exactly what was typed into the forum.  Then you can respond by email just by clicking "Reply to".

Of course it does have problems of it's own but it's easier for first timers that are new to this non-telephone support.  It's more polite and doesn't spam people that only wanted to deal with 1 thread.  You can easily add yourself to the list of people that receive those emails whenever anyone posts anything to the forum. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#33

Interesting, I'll have to give it a look...

#34

Hi :slight_smile:
Sorry for double-posting yet again :frowning:

This list does have 2 very distinctly different purposes
1.  as user-support
2.  as a discussion list
Clearly people are having trouble with this list when they need it for 1 but many of us enjoy it for 2.

Perhaps an official user-support forum at Launchpad could send emails to the discussion list?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#35

Hi :slight_smile:
Sorry for double-posting yet again :frowning:

This list does have 2 very distinctly different purposes
1. as user-support
2. as a discussion list
Clearly people are having trouble with this list when they need it for 1 but many of us enjoy it for 2.

Or you could stop using this list as a general discussion board and use
it for what it was intended, user support.

There is a discussion list for the other - so please try to use the
correct list for the intended purpose - that would go a long, long way
also.

//drew

#36

HI :slight_smile:
Ahh, you mean use it for what it's rubbish at and don't use it for the thing it is good at.  Great plan!
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#37

Hello Tom,

Forums usually allow the hard-core mailing-list fans to subscribe to
one, many or all threads in the forum so the net result would be about

Yes, but as Mark says, you /still/ have to go to the website to do
that. I'm not doing that 70 or so times a day. Life's way too short.