Workflow based on master

[igaidhlig]

Sgrìobh Sophie na leanas 16/12/2014 aig 07:23:

workload issue again and sent a mail to devs and UX to be careful with
our workflow. UX has set a page with string changes here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/RecentStringChanges

Those are actually all 'acceptable' and in fact, most look very welcome as they down-geek the wording

It's part of my job to smooth things in the project, and I'll really try
to do my best here.

Thanks for what you're doing. Feeling a bit more hopeful for the future!

Michael

[Tom_Davies1]

Hi
It might help to have a few people on both mailing lists (or whatever the
devs use to communicate between each other).

That way maybe one of those people might notice when one of the mailing
lists starts talking about doing something that might have an impact on one
of the other mailing lists they are on.

On the Accessibility Mailing List a few days ago there was mention that one
of the recent breakages could be fixed by adding a tiny bit of text into
the menu items. I warned them that;
1. it would impact on the translators who were struggling with a similar
issue right now.
2. if they could get their changes in within a couple of days then it
might neatly fit into the work the translators are doing right now and thus
avoid duplication
3. that if they couldn't get their UI changes in right now then it would
be better to wait a few months, or longer, in the hope that the translators
might get some automation to handle it.

The result seems to be that they have given up on getting that improvement
through NOT the result i'd intended because i think Accessibility is
also crucial and it gets far less support than translators or
documentation.

Imo it would have been great if the current set of changes had been
coordinated with stuff that the other teams need. There is already a
system to try to coordinate between teams but it doesn't seem to be
working.

I think if it was backed-up by having a few people liaising between a
couple of mailing lists, and a couple other people liaising between a
couple of other mailing lists then it might be easier to coordinate between
the teams.

Regards from
Tom

[sophi]

Hi Tom,

Hi
It might help to have a few people on both mailing lists (or whatever the
devs use to communicate between each other).

That's what I'm supposed to do, but I think you've noticed it

That way maybe one of those people might notice when one of the mailing
lists starts talking about doing something that might have an impact on one
of the other mailing lists they are on.

yes, and I'm constantly discussing the string changes with the UX team
(mostly Jay and on IRC). Because of the openness of our project, anybody
can suggest a change without being aware of the impact it can have for
other team or sometime even for the product. Cor is monitoring a lot on
Bugzilla about those changes and he is dedicating a lot of his time.

On the Accessibility Mailing List a few days ago there was mention that one
of the recent breakages could be fixed by adding a tiny bit of text into
the menu items. I warned them that;
1. it would impact on the translators who were struggling with a similar
issue right now.
2. if they could get their changes in within a couple of days then it
might neatly fit into the work the translators are doing right now and thus
avoid duplication
3. that if they couldn't get their UI changes in right now then it would
be better to wait a few months, or longer, in the hope that the translators
might get some automation to handle it.

The result seems to be that they have given up on getting that improvement
through NOT the result i'd intended because i think Accessibility is
also crucial and it gets far less support than translators or
documentation.

The trick is to add the shortcuts to the menu label in order for them to
be read by screen readers. Whether it will be done or not will depend on
who will open the issue and implement it. Stuart is part of the Design
team, so he is aware of the l10n team request about massive changes, but
I will monitor it.

Imo it would have been great if the current set of changes had been
coordinated with stuff that the other teams need. There is already a
system to try to coordinate between teams but it doesn't seem to be
working.

What system are you talking about?

I think if it was backed-up by having a few people liaising between a
couple of mailing lists, and a couple other people liaising between a
couple of other mailing lists then it might be easier to coordinate between
the teams.

The only way to coordinate is to do cross communication between the teams
Cheers
Sophie

[Tom_Davies1]

Hi
Yes, i have noticed you are on MANY lists and extremely active in just
about all the ones i see you on, whereas i tend to be just a lurker on most
that i am on. Stuart likewise is extremely active and very busy on quite a
few teams.

However i think it is difficult to process so many mailing lists. If a few
other people could help with just 1 or 2 more mailing lists than they are
currently on then it might be easier for them to "free up" some of your
time.

Relying on a single person places a lot of stress on that one person and if
they ever leave it's a nightmare trying to catch up or figure out what
needs to be done.

The systems that don't appear to be working are whatever systems we have
for communicating between teams. This thread is not the first time there
has been this problem.

However i don't think it's bad to have what is already "in place", just
that we could clearly do with a bit more direct liaison.
Regards from
Tom

[Tom_Davies1]

Hi
Err, mostly i am saying that people who are grumbling could take control a
bit. Even just knowing that something is going to happen is often a big
help.

"Just lurking" doesn't usually mean tons of work = it might on the devs
list as it sounds like it might be high traffic. However, joining a low
traffic one, such as Accessibility (has maybe 2 posts/month on average!)
might help free other people (such as Stuart and Sophie) a bit so that they
don't worry about that list so much.

That doesn't negate the need for the other things that have been discussed
but it might help preempt and get more control of this sort of thing for
the future.

Regards from
Tom

[Jesper_Hertel]

This is an "old" post (I just read it now), but I just wanted to say what
an excellent description of the problem that was, Michael! So much to the
point and so precise. What a joy to read.

Jesper