Albanian

l10n
#1

I just noticed that a new user has signed up for Albanian and went to check the team. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language_Teams tells users to sign up at a central Albanian l10n site but the URL is dead. Perhaps an admin should contact the new user (dashohoxha) and the former (?) admin Agroni to see what's going on there?

In general, I think it would be useful if we could do some sort of an automated signed up which takes users through the signup for Pootle and as an integral part, a signup for the l10n list and perhaps the tiniest of one-page tutorials. There seems to be a large number of people who sign up who never actually do anything or sign up to the list and I suspect we're loosing talent that way. I know it says on the page what you should do but especially the bit about the mailing list is not good, as it points toward the mail-to address but not the signup page and I really think it would be good if translators were automatically signed up - at least for the digest.

Cheers

Michael

#2

Hi there,
I am working helping coordinating the albanian team, Dashamir is in contact
with me as well as agron. Dasho is also working on a nice new translation
tool, the b-translator that he presented at sfk12
https://github.com/dashohoxha/B-Translator

#3

Ok, cool, as long as people are on the case, I was just asking cause there hasn't been any activity in Albanian.

Michael

13/09/2012 17:54, sgrìobh Mike Dupont:

#4

well we did some activity in albanian in the past.
I rescued some translation strings from the ooo version
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org-l10n/+bug/431038
there has been not much activity on lo because also of the huge amount of
work to do so.

most of the team in kosovo use the english version.

mike

#5

Hi Michael,

The new user (dashohoxha) was me. I have noticed that the information
on http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page is outdated and
I would have corrected it, if I could. However, I was not able to sign up
on the wiki (mos probably the captcha has some problems).

Also, on Pootle (https://translations.documentfoundation.org/) I couldn't
see how to export and import PO files.

On the following weeks (or months) I would like to make some advertisement
about translating LibreOffice into Albanian, and I hope that there will be
people interested to help. I am going to tell the people to use either
https://translations.documentfoundation.org or https://l10n.org.al/translations
(the system that I am trying to develop), whichever they find more suitable.

Myself I would like to do the merge of data and integration between the two
systems. For this reason I need to be able to export/import PO files from
your Pootle system (it could be even better if this could be done by GIT or
some other scriptable system).

Could you please tell me how to do these? (correct the information at
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page and export/import PO
files from the Pootle system)

About the former admin (Agron) I am not sure how much time he has to
manage the system, so you could even consider to give me admin rights
for Albanian (besides him).

Thanks,
Dashamir

#6

I can second dasho, he is competent and good. We should give him admin and
I am sure he can do a good job. Agron is in usa and also a good guy, but
dasho is in albania and in a good position to recruit more translators.
mike

#7

Hi Dashamir,

2012.09.13 22:52, Dashamir Hoxha rašė:

The new user (dashohoxha) was me. I have noticed that the information
on http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page is outdated and
I would have corrected it, if I could. However, I was not able to sign up
on the wiki (mos probably the captcha has some problems).

Also, on Pootle (https://translations.documentfoundation.org/) I couldn't
see how to export and import PO files.

You need to have permissions for that. I just gave you admin rights for Albanian, so you should be fine now.

BY THE WAY, apparently, nobody had any Albanian-specific permissions up until now, even though there are 5 more users who chose Albanian as their primary language upon registration. That's weird. But now you can grant the permissions to others yourself, as needed.

On the following weeks (or months) I would like to make some advertisement
about translating LibreOffice into Albanian, and I hope that there will be
people interested to help. I am going to tell the people to use either
https://translations.documentfoundation.org or https://l10n.org.al/translations
(the system that I am trying to develop), whichever they find more suitable.

Myself I would like to do the merge of data and integration between the two
systems. For this reason I need to be able to export/import PO files from
your Pootle system (it could be even better if this could be done by GIT or
some other scriptable system).

Keeping those in sync and avoiding duplicating work might be a challenge. Like I said, now you have the permissions to export .po files. You can also use git to check out translations, I think the repo is this one: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/translations/. I'm not sure how often Andras synchronizes it with Pootle though.

Could you please tell me how to do these? (correct the information at
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page and export/import PO
files from the Pootle system)

Well, to edit the Wiki, you should get an account there. I just tried to do it for you, and it worked fine, I'll send you a password to it, so you can log in and change it.
Perhaps you weren't good enough at distinguishing cats from dogs in the captcha? :smiley:

About the former admin (Agron) I am not sure how much time he has to
manage the system, so you could even consider to give me admin rights
for Albanian (besides him).

Like I said, he seems to have two accounts in Pootle, but none of these has admin (or any other specific) rights for Albanian. I have promoted you to Albanian admin now.

Regards,
Rimas

#8

2012.09.13 19:51, Michael Bauer rašė:

In general, I think it would be useful if we could do some sort of an automated signed up which takes users through the signup for Pootle and as an integral part, a signup for the l10n list and perhaps the tiniest of one-page tutorials. There seems to be a large number of people who sign up who never actually do anything or sign up to the list and I suspect we're loosing talent that way. I know it says on the page what you should do but especially the bit about the mailing list is not good, as it points toward the mail-to address but not the signup page and I really think it would be good if translators were automatically signed up - at least for the digest.

Hi Michael,

I'm not sure how easy it is to hook automatic subscriptions to the registration form, but improving the welcome text is certainly an easy thing to do. I have just changed the link to point to mailto:l10n+subscribe@global.libreoffice.org, but if you have other suggestions for improvement, you're welcome to give them. There is a small problem associated with that text that is good to keep in mind though: it must be limited to 1024 characters. :slight_smile:

Rimas

#9

Thanks Rimas,

I have already updated the wiki page:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page
I think that the problem with the catcha was that it was not displayed at all.

A git system for synchronizing PO files would indeed be very useful.
However it seems that the url that you mentioned does not work.
If I can make a suggestion, why not to use GitHub? It is free for the
GPL projects.

Regards,
Dashamir

#10

2012.09.14 12:59, Dashamir Hoxha rašė:

Thanks Rimas,

I have already updated the wiki page:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page
I think that the problem with the catcha was that it was not displayed at all.

A git system for synchronizing PO files would indeed be very useful.
However it seems that the url that you mentioned does not work.
If I can make a suggestion, why not to use GitHub? It is free for the
GPL projects.

The link does work, just takes a looong time to load. I don't know why that happens, maybe Andras would have an insight.

Re GitHub: all LibO's repositories are hosted by freedesktop, so I'm not sure it would make sense to have one of them elsewhere (although it's not like you can't clone it yourself). And it's not my call to make anyway.

Rimas

#11

Hi Rimas, *,

2012.09.14 12:59, Dashamir Hoxha rašė:

I have already updated the wiki page:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page
I think that the problem with the catcha was that it was not displayed at
all.

Captcha is not displayed in some browsers, because the certificate for
the captcha-provider is issues by Microsoft, and not all browsers have
that in their list of trustworthy certificate authorities.

A git system for synchronizing PO files would indeed be very useful.
However it seems that the url that you mentioned does not work.
If I can make a suggestion, why not to use GitHub? It is free for the
GPL projects.

The link does work, just takes a looong time to load. I don't know why that
happens, maybe Andras would have an insight.

Not sure what link you're talking about, but I just assume it is the
zip-export functionality in pootle.

Yes, that takes a while, since it takes a lot of CPU time to prepare
the files. However it will create all files for that language at once,
so only the first file takes long, the others then are available
instantly.

It is not helpful to click multiple downloadlinks, as then they will
just fight over the CPU and then take longer in total.

So when you want to download files from pootle, klick one file, wait
until the download starts, then click on the other ones you want.

ciao
Christian

#12

Hi Christian,

2012.09.14 13:38, Christian Lohmaier rašė:

2012.09.14 12:59, Dashamir Hoxha rašė:

I have already updated the wiki page:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Sq/Main_Page
I think that the problem with the catcha was that it was not displayed at
all.

Captcha is not displayed in some browsers, because the certificate for
the captcha-provider is issues by Microsoft, and not all browsers have
that in their list of trustworthy certificate authorities.

Oh I see... Thanks for the info!

A git system for synchronizing PO files would indeed be very useful.
However it seems that the url that you mentioned does not work.
If I can make a suggestion, why not to use GitHub? It is free for the
GPL projects.

The link does work, just takes a looong time to load. I don't know why that
happens, maybe Andras would have an insight.

Not sure what link you're talking about, but I just assume it is the
zip-export functionality in pootle.

No, we were talking about http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/translations/ .

Rimas

#13

Re the integration with git: LO should check WebLate, it has great git
integration features (ie all translations are treated as git commits)
and was developed to avoid all the pootle related problems, and even
though pootle 2.2 should fix most of the annoyances, it would still be
a good idea to check if WebLate wasn't a better solution for the LO
project.

#14

Exactly what sort of Poolte integration with git are you looking for?

The Pootle instance I run at Sugar Labs is pretty tightly integrated
with our Gitorious repository.

We have some helper scripts that run nightly updates (cron) of the
templates that may have been changed. An "Update from Templates" is
still needed on the Poolte side, but doing that will always give you
the latest POTs for a project.

And we have direct commit to the /po directory in the git repo by
language administrators (via a special git:user named "pootle" whose
credentials are used).

I'd be happy to offer a further explanation of this if there is
interest, but Daniska should be somewhat familiar with how we oeprate
at Sugar Labs as well.

cjl

#15

I would like to be able to export PO files from the command line,
and to import them from the command line again.

If all the PO files are kept in a GIT repository, this can be done easily:
first CLONE the repository, and then PULL to get the latest version of
the PO files, modify them locally, and finally PUSH to import them into
the main repository (upstream).

Dashamir

#16

Well, pulling all of the PO files is easily done from the command line
with wget on the download "Zip of Directory" link on the Translate
tab.

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sq/llibo_ui/export/zip
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sq/libo_help/export/zip

That will get you the current PO files hosted in Pootle.

I personally find the deeply nested folder structure of the LO UI on
Pootle a bit challenging, although I understand why it is set up that
way. I developed a little script (collapse36.sh) to help me get all
of the PO files into a single folder (only one layer deep). Please
note that to accomplish this is it necessary to rename files that
share a name but are differentiated by their location in the folder
hierarchy.

The renaming is easy enough to decipher and reverse by just looking at
the lines of the shell script. Please note that the script is
intentionally destructive of the original folders in order to monitor
completeness, so only do it with a copy of your downloaded and
unzipped file in a directory of it's own.

Upload is another question entirely. Speaking only for myself (as
Translation Team Coordinator of another project, not LO). Direct
commit to the git repository /po directories bypassing Pootle is a
simply bad idea. The Pootle workflow serves multiple important
purposes all of which are defeated by direct git commits of PO files.

I cannot think of an easy way to do mass uploads via the Pootle web
UI. Unless you are going to be given an elevated level of privs on
the Pootle server itself (and SHH access to log in), this may remain a
repeated manual process to get the PO files into Pootle (where they
belong). Again, speaking only for Sugar Labs (and not LO) I can tell
you that very few people will ever get a privileged login to our
Pootle server, this is not something you just hand out for convenience
sake.

Pootle is an important tool for collaboration and quality control.
Trying to cut it out of the loop is not recommended.

Just my 2 cents.;

cjl

#17

Thanks Chris,

I am not trying to cut out of the loop Pootle, I am trying to cut out of
the loop the manual work. There are so many PO files that it is impossible
to upload all of them manually as frequently as I would like.

I would prefer to do the merge offline, on the desktop, using tools like
Lokalize, which are wonderful for merging PO files. Then I would like
to upload the merged PO files automatically.
Probably some curl script can do the job. I will have to try it.

Another question:
Once I have downloaded all the PO files (which can be done easily)
how can I apply them so that I can check the translations in the context?
For example, for some other (gnome) application I can convert PO files to MO
files, put them to a special location (directory), and restart the application.
However I am not sure whether this works with LibreOffice PO files as well.
Can somebody help with this?

Regards,
Dashamir

P.s. Chris, I see on the admin panel that you are listed as an Albanian language
       user (cjl). How come?

#18

Hi Dashamir,

2012.09.14 22:52, Dashamir Hoxha rašė:

I am not trying to cut out of the loop Pootle, I am trying to cut out of
the loop the manual work. There are so many PO files that it is impossible
to upload all of them manually as frequently as I would like.

I would prefer to do the merge offline, on the desktop, using tools like
Lokalize, which are wonderful for merging PO files. Then I would like
to upload the merged PO files automatically.
Probably some curl script can do the job. I will have to try it.

AFAIK, you should be able to zip the files back together and upload them all at once.

Another question:
Once I have downloaded all the PO files (which can be done easily)
how can I apply them so that I can check the translations in the context?
For example, for some other (gnome) application I can convert PO files to MO
files, put them to a special location (directory), and restart the application.
However I am not sure whether this works with LibreOffice PO files as well.
Can somebody help with this?

Not possible. Or rather not that easily possible. LibreOffice does not use gettext internally. Those .po files are converted to proper format at compile time. Andras (yes, him again) should be able to tell you the details, if you're interested. I don't know anything about them.

HTH,
Rimas