any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

users
#1

It has been about as week since 4.0.4 came out.
All I need is the Portable versions of 4.0.4 to complete the 4.0.4 NA-DVD.

Anyone have heard anything about when the portable versions might beavailable?

So, right now I wait till I hear either way. I can release/upload the 4.0.4 ISO file with the 4.0.3 portable versions. I have done so in the past having the new Win/Mac/Linux installs with an older version of the portable installs. In the past, the Portable group have skipped a version or two, due to whatever issues with their time or working schedules.

I just would like to get the NA-DVD ISO file uploaded soon to the LO system so it can be listed in the DVD download page[s].

Tim L.

#2

Hi Tim, all

In my opinion TDF got a bad deal with the PortableApps people...

They only create the versions they feel like and they drop a branch the
minute a new release is out from a newer branch. Even worse: they don't
listen to requests (maybe they don't have the manpower but they aren't
interested in voluntaries either...).

The guys at WinPenPack create a new portable versions at the same pace as
the regular LO. And they missed version 3.6.6 but listened to my request on
their Forum.

For someone working on QA it is essential to have the final version on each
branch. WinPenPack has all of them.

Another advantage is that you can run all versions simultaneously (if you
wish). The PortableApps version can not be executed while the installed
version is running (I can't remember if it even runs when another portable
version is running).

Finally the WinPenPack binaries seem to be somewhat optimized because they
run faster on slow computers (like my netbook).

Conclusion: I highly recommend X-LibreOffice :wink:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winpenpack/files/X-LibreOffice/releases/

BTW X-LibreOffice version 4.0.4 is available since June 19th...

Just my 2 cents :wink:

#3

Well, I do not really agree with the "bad deal".

They need to spend their time "converting" the Windows version to the "portable" version. It takes some time. So they pick and choose which version they will send their time on. LO 3.6.7 comes out soon, but they will not make that version, since the 4.0.x line is out. When 4.1.x line comes out, they will be moving to that and not work any more on the previous line.

Sure, there are other "portable" software groups, but I only have dealt with the PortableApps group, since TDF deals with them. If another group starts making a good version for LO, then maybe the Board might want to look at them as well. For me, I just go with the current version that TDF/LO are listing on the download pages.

Why would you want to run a portable version of LO when you have one installed?

As for versions that are optimized for slower systems, well anyone who can deal with the compile/make process from the source code to binaries, can do some basic optimizing to a specific system. Sometimes it take a lot more. Raspberry Pi developers have optimized LO to run better on their system than the "standard" 32-bit Debian install.

If you really think that TDF should look at the other portable app groups, then you need to bring it up to one of the Board members - and off the User list. These types of discussions work best on the Discuss List or some other list instead of the User list.

#4

This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions and frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn about upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems with newer versions resurrecting old bugs.

I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.

Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new releases of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two extremes might be nice.

Virgil

#5

Hi :) 
+1
Well, something similar.

Sometimes an entire branch goes by without my having installed and used any in it.  The 3.4.x and 3.6.x passed me by almost completely.  I keep meaning to join in with QA early in a branch's release-cycle but typically end up installing about half-way through.  Usually around the x.x.4 which is typically where it becomes a lot more stable.  Somewhat unusually I managed to get the 4.0.1 onto all the machines at work but that was very exceptional.

I suspect the 4.1.0 is going to be very stable too as a lot of people have done a lot of great work in the QA competition that is still going on.

Debian make the mistake of having only their old versions declared officially stable.  Some other projects do  something similar.  It makes them feel old and stale.  Ubuntu put extra effort into a big new "LTS" release every 2 years and makes sure there is always plenty of exciting new features, ultra latest versions of programs and some complete overhaul of something.  Then for 3 years (now 5) afterwards they ensure that all bug-patches, fixes and security updates are back-ported to the LTSes.  It gives corporate users confidence in the system.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#6

Hi Virgil, all

Virgil Arrington wrote

Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new
releases
of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two
extremes
might be nice.

I used to have the same opinion as you. But the incredible progress of
LibreOffice in a single year convinced me otherwise.

LO is following a time based release method. This means that it is moving
forward fast and some bugs do slide in...

However the improvement in quality, stability and features make it almost on
par with *current* commercial alternatives. A year ago LO was comparable to
MS Office 2003. Today it compares with Office 2010 and in some areas it is
even better (though not in speed/performance)

Fear of updating is where Portable versions are also excellent. You can get
X-LibreOffice 4.0.4 today and test it against your stable version. If there
are regressions you can skip this version (and ideally report the bug at
Bugzilla :wink: ) and wait for the next one that solves it. If there are no
regressions then you can install the new version.

If you have the freedom to test any version without compromising your stable
install, isn't that great?

Pedro

#7

Hi :) 
I agree with both sides of this argument/discussion.  I do really like the fast-paced development of LibreOffice.  Especially as it follows decades of being stuck in a quagmire.

That is why i suggest the approach of letting fast paced development continue as it is and having a series of separate releases, perhaps once every 2 years or so, with only security-patches and bug-patches being back-ported.

However the idea has been dismissed by the BoD as being unfeasible.  I am not quite sure how Ubuntu manages to do it if it can't be done.

Of course there is another way to view this.  If you see AOO as being the LTS version of LibreOffice then we have it covered already. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#8

One of our devs is going to do a bit about this after the EOL of 3.6 but this chart should help:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/2c/LibOReleaseLifecycle.png

also this might help a little,

https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-June/msg00041.html

There is a rationale behind our release schedule. Ultimately just because the version is out, doesn't mean users have to upgrade, each release has a purpose.

Warm Regards,
Joel

#9

Hi Tom, all

Tom wrote

That is why i suggest the approach of letting fast paced development
continue as it is and having a series of separate releases, perhaps once
every 2 years or so, with only security-patches and bug-patches being
back-ported.

However the idea has been dismissed by the BoD as being unfeasible.  I am
not quite sure how Ubuntu manages to do it if it can't be done.

Because Ubuntu has Mark Shuttleworth's big pockets behind it. If you pay
developers to back-port fixes it works. However if you rely on developers
that work on whatever they find interesting then it is hard to convince them
that back-porting is fun...

Tom wrote

Of course there is another way to view this.  If you see AOO as being the
LTS version of LibreOffice then we have it covered already.

AOO still has so many bugs that were already solved in LO and has so many
new LO features missing that loading yesterday's AOO daily build felt like
going back in time...

Regards,
Pedro

#10

Hi :slight_smile:
I had no idea there were different organisations doing the same thing.  I don't know which is best but i think

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winpenpack/files/X-LibreOffice/releases/

is worth looking into.

Unfortunately i am lucky enough to be able to boot into Gnu&Linux almost everywhere i go now.  There is a place i am not supposed to be able to and they have quite harsh sounding warning notices about not messing around but i 'accidentally' had my usb-stick in the machine and it went straight into the LiveCd/Usb version of Ubuntu.  It was very slow though, as it's an old usb stick.  So it might be worth experimenting with.

Thanks and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#11

Hi Tim

Actually the PortableApps version is already available from the TDF server

http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/portable/4.0.4/

Enjoy :wink:

#12

Hi :slight_smile:
Ok, that makes sense.  The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so it's easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
4.0.1 to
4.0.2 and onwards.

Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can click on the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin level privileges.  Like Firefox allows.

At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh install of the newer release even if it is in the same branch.

I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway.  The little green arrow is fairly new.  At the moment it just lets you know there is a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be possible to just click on that and sit back to watch the magic.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#13

Hi :slight_smile:
There are certain names i keep noticing and saying thanks to but there are quite a few others that i never notice despite them putting in tons of hard work.

I usually try to delete most LibreOffice emails but quite a few slip through but just did a quick search of your name and found you have been extremely active since at least Jan 2012.  So, well over a year without any thanks!

So a BIG THANKS from me!! :)))

I wonder if it might be good to make a wiki-page list of people we think are owed a thanks.  I think i would want to include people that i don't personally get on with particularly well or even argue against a lot because we have all made LibreOffice what it is today and that result is superb.  Other mailing lists, such as the devs and docs team have lists of their contributors, or their top contributors but we don't have anything like it yet.

One reason i noticed this over-sight was the QA people wrote to me to ask how to get more people interested in their competition and i really didn't have a good answer.  I don't think i have the type of influence they were looking for.  Quite the opposite in fact.  However, they made just a couple more posts to this list and that seems to have generated fantastic results.

So, good work to all!!  I hope you are having fun over there and maybe considered trying out a few other teams too.  Even if not then still many thanks for your work on this list.
Many thanks and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#14

Hi :slight_smile:
Ok, that makes sense. The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so
it's easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
4.0.1 to
4.0.2 and onwards.

Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can
click on the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin
level privileges. Like Firefox allows.

At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh install
of the newer release even if it is in the same branch.

I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway. The
little green arrow is fairly new. At the moment it just lets you know
there is a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be
possible to just click on that and sit back to watch the magic.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Generally speaking, Tom, my experience is that one has to go to the
LibreOffice website and download the latest and greatest step every time it
is released ; it is rarely that I see an update notice and that little
green arrow. The above holds true for Windows 7 and 8 ; on Linux Mint all I
have to do is wait for the Ubuntu PPAs to get updated - it took perhaps a
little more than a week after the 4.0.4.2 was released for it automatically
to beinstalled over 4.0.3.3. Hitherto I'm ver impressed with it - it seems
to load even more quickly than its predecessor. Kudos to the developers !...

Henri

#15

Hi :slight_smile:
I'm on an Xp machine (well on the Windows side of a dual-boot machine) and LO 4.0.3 has a tiny little green arrow on the far right at the top just under the minimise, window, close buttons.  When i wave the mouse arrow over it a tool-tips yellow bubble appears telling me an update is available.

Sadly when i click on that the magic doesn't happen.  It just opens a tab in Firefox taking me to the downloads page.

Something else i find odd about the UI is that sometimes the "Save" button/icon looks like a floppy-disk (anyone else remember them?) and sometimes has a more modern, errr green arrow again.  I was proudly boasting to someone that LO was so advanced that it was the 1st program to move away from using the floppy-disk icon and then he showed me it was still there.  Grrrr

Anyway, getting back on-topic it seems the protable version has been released at last.  Florian did his magic tricks and it's appeared. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#16

Hi Tim, all

krackedpress wrote

They need to spend their time "converting" the Windows version to the
"portable" version. It takes some time. So they pick and choose which
version they will send their time on. LO 3.6.7 comes out soon, but they
will not make that version, since the 4.0.x line is out. When 4.1.x
line comes out, they will be moving to that and not work any more on the
previous line.

And I believe that people who use Portable versions would rather have an
option to update or not to a given version, regardless of the PortableApps
mood.
Time is not a valid argument because it takes time to convert for the
WinPenPack people as well...
It's a matter of choices (priorities) for each project. My opinion is that
the WinPenPack options serve better the LO users.

krackedpress wrote

Sure, there are other "portable" software groups, but I only have dealt
with the PortableApps group, since TDF deals with them. If another
group starts making a good version for LO, then maybe the Board might
want to look at them as well. For me, I just go with the current
version that TDF/LO are listing on the download pages.

That is your prerogative. I was offering you an alternative (better in my
opinion).

krackedpress wrote

Why would you want to run a portable version of LO when you have one
installed?

Because when I'm triaging or submitting bugs I need to test for regressions.
It is much faster to run several Portable versions to check when the bug
first occurred or if it has always been in LO/OOo

krackedpress wrote

As for versions that are optimized for slower systems, well anyone who
can deal with the compile/make process from the source code to binaries,
can do some basic optimizing to a specific system.

If it's that simple why aren't both optimized? If anyone can do it, then I'm
glad someone actually did it because I know I don't have the knowledge but I
do appreciate the enhancement.

krackedpress wrote

If you really think that TDF should look at the other portable app
groups, then you need to bring it up to one of the Board members - and
off the User list. These types of discussions work best on the Discuss
List or some other list instead of the User list.

Board members are aware of my public opinion on these lists. The Discuss
list is dead (half of the topics here
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Discuss-f1621725.html are SPAM). The
User list is where more people participate and I have been advised in the
past by members of the Board to keep discussions here...

Here are some topics on the subject if you are interested
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Portable-td4009436.html
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Portable-vs-Parallel-which-one-is-better-td4056781.html

#17

Just to let you all know. . .

The original post asked when will 4.0.4 Portable come out

Well, they are now listed on the PortableApp site.

http://portableapps.com/apps/office/libreoffice_portable

#18

<...>

Tom I've just finished upgrading 10 machines with different versions of
Windows - Win7 and Win8 - installed (on my Linux HDDs - Mint 15 and Ubuntu
12.04 - I let the Ubuntu PPA do the heavy lifting for me) and the arrow you
mention above - which I do remember having seen earlier, but not
consistently , never appeared. I'd like to suggest the following for the
consideration of the developers : placing a link to a «Check/Search for
updates» feature under «Help» in the LO menu bar. This would correspond to
received usage - and thus be «intuitive» to many users - and facilitate
checking for updates even if, as in my case, the arrow that is supposed to
appear under the window-management buttons should fail to do so....

Henri

PS : On Linux Mint 15 with the Cinnamon desktop interface, the «Save» and
«Save as» icons are an A4 sheet with an arrow pointing downwards to the
right. Easy to understand (and the tool tip does say «Save»). Agree with
you that it's high time the floppy disk icon was replaced - when I ask my
retirees what they think it is, they almost invariably reply : «an
old-fashioned TV»....

#19

Hi :slight_smile:
Ahah.  Yes, it is not in the Ubuntu-ised versions and probably not on the direct "upstream" download for any Gnu&Linux.  It's only on the Windows version.

Most programs seem to have their update thing in their "Help" menu so it would be good to have there too but i quite like it being so 'noticeable' [coughs].  Even if it's a bit ambiguous and then doesn't quite do what you would expect when you do figure it out.  There is no reason i know of to have the feature in just one place as different places could point to the same actions.

That is interesting to hear about the different icon styles.  It turns out that there are quite a selection that you can download to personalise your version of LibreOffice.  i haven't quite found out where yet.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: M Henri Day <mhenriday@gmail.com>
To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Joel Madero <jmadero.dev@gmail.com>; Virgil Arrington <cuyfalls@hotmail.com>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" <users@global.libreoffice.org>
Sent: Friday, 28 June 2013, 13:43
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

Hi :slight_smile:

I'm on an Xp machine (well on the Windows side of a dual-boot machine) and LO 4.0.3 has a tiny little green arrow on the far right at the top just under the minimise, window, close buttons.  When i wave the mouse arrow over it a tool-tips yellow bubble appears telling me an update is available.

Sadly when i click on that the magic doesn't happen.  It just opens a tab in Firefox taking me to the downloads page.

Something else i find odd about the UI is that sometimes the "Save" button/icon looks like a floppy-disk (anyone else remember them?) and sometimes has a more modern, errr green arrow again.  I was proudly boasting to someone that LO was so advanced that it was the 1st program to move away from using the floppy-disk icon and then he showed me it was still there.

Grrrr

Anyway, getting back on-topic it seems the protable version has been released at last.  Florian did his magic tricks and it's appeared. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

________________________________
From: M Henri Day <mhenriday@gmail.com>
To: Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: Joel Madero <jmadero.dev@gmail.com>; Virgil Arrington <cuyfalls@hotmail.com>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" <users@global.libreoffice.org>
Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 17:15

Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

Hi :slight_smile:
Ok, that makes sense.  The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so
it's easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
4.0.1 to
4.0.2 and onwards.

Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can
click on the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin
level privileges.  Like Firefox allows.

At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh install

of the newer release even if it is in the same branch.

I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway.  The
little green arrow is fairly new.  At the moment it just lets you know
there is a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be
possible to just click on that and sit back to watch the magic.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Generally speaking, Tom, my experience is that one has to go to the
LibreOffice website and download the latest and greatest step every time it
is released ; it is rarely that I see an update notice and that little
green arrow. The above holds true for Windows 7 and 8 ; on Linux Mint all I
have to do is wait for the Ubuntu PPAs to get updated - it took perhaps a
little more than a week after the 4.0.4.2 was released for it automatically
to be installed over 4.0.3.3. Hitherto I'm ver impressed with it

- it seems

#20

LibreOffice has a configuration option to check by itself for new versions.

The Portable LibreOffice, must be checked by the PortableApps platform. And at your will, you can actualize your version or wait after some time, to give time to rise reports on the new version.