Bad source strings?

l10n
#1

There are two strings which struck me as really odd:

veTGD formulacalculationoptions.ui
This option determines whether an empty string is to be treated as having a value of zero when used in arithmetic or generates an error. It is disabled if conversion from text to number is set to always generate an error or always treat text as zero and then follows that value.

The last bit sounds very German but doesn't make much sense. Could this be reworded into something that is easier to understand?

GU4bt euro.src
The language set for your operating system is not a language of the European Monetary Union.

This used to be "you selected a currency which isn't part of the EMU" (or something like that). Is this really about languages now? And if so, is that a wise move? There are some cross-border languages that fall either side of the divide (like Irish in Ireland which has the Euro but in Northern Ireland it has the Pound; Danish in Denmark which has the krone but on the German side the Euro; Swedish in Sweden vs Finland... there's probably a few more). I'm not sure what the feature does but from a language angle this strikes me as something that's likely to go pear-shaped.

Michael

#2

Hi Michael,

veTGD formulacalculationoptions.ui
This option determines whether an empty string is to be treated as
having a value of zero when used in arithmetic or generates an
error. It is disabled if conversion from text to number is set to
always generate an error or always treat text as zero and then
follows that value.

The last bit sounds very German

I confess myself guilty :smiley:

but doesn't make much sense.

Well, to me it did :wink: so..

Could this be reworded into something that is easier to understand?

If you could suggest a better wording?

What is meant:
* if the option "Conversion from text to number" is set to "Generate
  #VALUE! error" then the option "Treat empty string as zero" is
  disabled
  * in this case an empty string also generates a #VALUE! error
* if the option "Conversion from text to number" is set to "Treat as
  zero" then the option "Treat empty string as zero" is disabled
  * in this case an empty string is converted to zero as well

Now how to squeeze that in the little space available..

GU4bt euro.src
The language set for your operating system is not a language of the
European Monetary Union.

This used to be "you selected a currency which isn't part of the
EMU" (or something like that). Is this really about languages now?

No, the string is in since 2004, just it's resource ID was shifted by
one when I inserted "Latvian Lats" as a new currency name. We have
"The currency set for the document is not a European currency!"
and
"The language set for your operating system is not a language of the
European Monetary Union."
These weren't changed but shifted.

And if so, is that a wise move? There are some cross-border
languages that fall either side of the divide (like Irish in Ireland
which has the Euro but in Northern Ireland it has the Pound; Danish
in Denmark which has the krone but on the German side the Euro;
Swedish in Sweden vs Finland... there's probably a few more). I'm
not sure what the feature does but from a language angle this
strikes me as something that's likely to go pear-shaped.

What it probably meant is locale instead of language. I'd have to lookup
its use though, but that "wizard" is a mess.. a quick browse didn't
reveal anything. As this is in since years and I doubt anyone except
people of a country affected by a Euro adoption in its first months is
using this wizard, if at all, I'd just silently ignore it unless someone
wants to deep dive into it.

  Eike

#3

Hi Eike

23/05/2014 13:29, sgrìobh Eike Rathke:

Hi Michael,

I confess myself guilty :smiley:

Happens to us all!

If you could suggest a better wording?

What is meant:
* if the option "Conversion from text to number" is set to "Generate
   #VALUE! error" then the option "Treat empty string as zero" is
   disabled
   * in this case an empty string also generates a #VALUE! error
* if the option "Conversion from text to number" is set to "Treat as
   zero" then the option "Treat empty string as zero" is disabled
   * in this case an empty string is converted to zero as well

Now how to squeeze that in the little space available..

LOL not sure if that made it any clearer. Let me check first if I understood you by taking out some ifs:
Scenario 1
Set "Conversion from text to number" to "Generate #VALUE! error" disables "Treat empty string as zero"
Result: [empty string] in a calculation > error

Scenario 2
Set "Conversion from text to number" to "Treat as zero" disables "Treat empty string as zero"
(I'm assuming that makes sense somehow, that both scenarios disable "Treat empty string as zero" though somehow my gut says this should be "enables")
Result: [empty string] in a calculation > turns into zero

This options determines how empty strings are handled in calculations. If empty strings are set to result in an error, this option is disabled. If empty strings are set to be treated as a zero, this option is enabled.

What it probably meant is locale instead of language. I'd have to lookup its use though, but that "wizard" is a mess.. a quick browse didn't reveal anything. As this is in since years and I doubt anyone except people of a country affected by a Euro adoption in its first months is using this wizard, if at all, I'd just silently ignore it unless someone wants to deep dive into it.

Hm ok I'll ignore it then, thanks for the explanation!

Michael

#4

Hi,

>* if the option "Conversion from text to number" is set to "Generate
> #VALUE! error" then the option "Treat empty string as zero" is
> disabled
> * in this case an empty string also generates a #VALUE! error
>* if the option "Conversion from text to number" is set to "Treat as
> zero" then the option "Treat empty string as zero" is disabled
> * in this case an empty string is converted to zero as well
>
>Now how to squeeze that in the little space available..
LOL not sure if that made it any clearer. Let me check first if I
understood you by taking out some ifs:
Scenario 1
Set "Conversion from text to number" to "Generate #VALUE! error"
disables "Treat empty string as zero"
Result: [empty string] in a calculation > error

Correct.

Scenario 2
Set "Conversion from text to number" to "Treat as zero" disables
"Treat empty string as zero"
(I'm assuming that makes sense somehow, that both scenarios disable
"Treat empty string as zero" though somehow my gut says this should
be "enables")
Result: [empty string] in a calculation > turns into zero

Correct.

Regarding enables/disables: what I meant with disabled is actually that
changing the option is disabled. The "Treat empty string as zero"
option's value follows the "Conversion from text to number" option in
both cases. You can see if you play with the options;

* set "Conversion from text to number" to "Generate #VALUE! error"
  => "Treat empty string as zero" is set to "False"
     * the option can't be changed / is disabled
* set "Conversion from text to number" to "Treat as zero"
  => "Treat empty string as zero" is set to "True"
     * the option can't be changed / is disabled

This is what was meant with "follows that value". Does that clarify?

This options determines how empty strings are handled in
calculations. If empty strings are set to result in an error, this
option is disabled. If empty strings are set to be treated as a
zero, this option is enabled.

That doesn't quite fit. Maybe changing

It is disabled if conversion from text to number is set to always
generate an error or always treat text as zero and then follows that
value.

to

Changing this option is disabled if "Conversion from text to number" is
set to "Generate #VALUE! error" or "Treat as zero" and then follows that
value.

would already help? Maybe the "then follows that value" could be better
worded.

  Eike

#5

Hi Eike,

23/05/2014 15:52, sgrìobh Eike Rathke:

Regarding enables/disables: what I meant with disabled is actually that
changing the option is disabled. The "Treat empty string as zero"
option's value follows the "Conversion from text to number" option in
both cases. You can see if you play with the options;

* set "Conversion from text to number" to "Generate #VALUE! error"
   => "Treat empty string as zero" is set to "False"
      * the option can't be changed / is disabled
* set "Conversion from text to number" to "Treat as zero"
   => "Treat empty string as zero" is set to "True"
      * the option can't be changed / is disabled

This is what was meant with "follows that value". Does that clarify?

Yes, I think so. There are two settings which have an effect on how empty strings are handled and if you've set one of them, it prevents you from setting the other. I haven't seen this in action (and I can't find it, must be a new addon getting integrated) which probably doesn't help but I get the feeling that this would be easier if we say it the other way round:

If you have set "Treat empty string as zero" to either true or false, you cannot choose (here) if conversion of an empty string to a number will generate an error or if it will treat empty strings as zero. Otherwise this option determines how empty strings are treated.

Does that fit?

Michael

#6

Hi.

Can someone help me unsubscribe to this mailing list ? I've realized that am too short of time and money to go on with the localization work, I haven't begun with it as yet as such, and there are loads of messages that do not interest me.

Also, if it's possible, drop my Pootle account, please.

Thanks.

#7

Hi Michael,

23/05/2014 15:52, sgrìobh Eike Rathke:
>Regarding enables/disables: what I meant with disabled is actually that
>changing the option is disabled. The "Treat empty string as zero"
>option's value follows the "Conversion from text to number" option in
>both cases. You can see if you play with the options;
>
>* set "Conversion from text to number" to "Generate #VALUE! error"
> => "Treat empty string as zero" is set to "False"
> * the option can't be changed / is disabled
>* set "Conversion from text to number" to "Treat as zero"
> => "Treat empty string as zero" is set to "True"
> * the option can't be changed / is disabled
>
>This is what was meant with "follows that value". Does that clarify?
Yes, I think so. There are two settings which have an effect on how
empty strings are handled and if you've set one of them, it prevents
you from setting the other. I haven't seen this in action (and I
can't find it, must be a new addon getting integrated)

No, it's in the detailed formula calculation settings.

* open a new Calc spreadsheet
* go to Tools -> Options -> Calc -> Formula
* set "Detailed calculation settings" to Custom
* click Details

which
probably doesn't help but I get the feeling that this would be
easier if we say it the other way round:

If you have set "Treat empty string as zero" to either true or
false, you cannot choose (here) if conversion of an empty string to
a number will generate an error or if it will treat empty strings as
zero. Otherwise this option determines how empty strings are
treated.

Does that fit?

Not really, you got the options mixed up :wink:
Following your wording it should be something like

If you have set "Conversion from text to number" to either "Generate
#VALUE! error" or "Treat as zero", you cannot choose (here) if
conversion of an empty string to a number will generate an error or if
it will treat empty strings as zero. Otherwise this option determines
how empty strings are treated.

Are we good with that?

  Eike

#8

That's much better, I'm happy with that!

Thanks

Michael

26/05/2014 10:34, sgrìobh Eike Rathke:

#9

Hi Michael,

That's much better, I'm happy with that!

26/05/2014 10:34, sgrìobh Eike Rathke:
>Not really, you got the options mixed up;-)
>Following your wording it should be something like
>
>If you have set "Conversion from text to number" to either "Generate
>#VALUE! error" or "Treat as zero", you cannot choose (here) if
>conversion of an empty string to a number will generate an error or if
>it will treat empty strings as zero. Otherwise this option determines
>how empty strings are treated.

Ok. The full text now reads:

This option determines how an empty string is treated when used in
arithmetic operations. If you have set "Conversion from text to number"
to either "Generate #VALUE! error" or "Treat as zero", you cannot choose
(here) if conversion of an empty string to a number will generate an
error or if it will treat empty strings as zero. Otherwise this option
determines how empty strings are treated.

Changed with
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=69d2fe6e57dd77b735234d139343b3a3faee165d
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-4-3&id=0f000f4a835a770d72dd3dc73690363801367008

Thanks
  Eike