Bullet indent frustrations

Hey list

I really, really enjoy using LibO and recommend it widely as a viable alternative to MS Office. So, thank you developers!

I do have one bone of contention where I do think that MS Office is superior to LibO Writer though, and that is in MS Office's formatting of bullets. In MSO, when one inserts bullets and they appear too far away from the border of a table, one merely needs to right click on the bullet and select "reduce indent" (or increase for the alternative option of moving the bullet further from the table border).

In LibO however, this function doesn't appear to exist and I find that I have to wade through some confusing documentation with terms that I'm not at all familiar with to achieve the same result. I'm obviously very bad at doing so correctly however, because the effect I achieve is variable, and inevitably ends up with the rest of the text hanging off at indentations that I don't want.

I find this amazingly frustrating and distracts me from the actual content of what I want to do.

Is there a simple way that I can align/ indent bullets so that they are flush against the border of a table and not spend fruitless amounts of time trying to figure this out from scratch each time?

Additionally, the alignment for numbering is messy especially when using Roman numerals (i), (ii) because by the time one gets to (iii), the text now appears significantly indented from the brackets of the (iii) and just looks ridiculous.

Any straightforward suggestions on how to fix this without the requirement for me to become some kind of text formatting guru?

Cheers

AG

It's all about styles. Every formatting featue in all components of LibreOffice assumes that you are familiar the concept of templates and styles.

Hi :slight_smile:
I am not sure but this documentation might be better
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation#Getting_Started_with_LibreOffice
Styles and Templates might be helpful.  It's the same documentation that is on this page
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/
But it's easier to see extra details such as when the chapters were produced, how many pages etc.

The Pdfs have the advantage that the Table of Contents has clickable links so just click on the topic you want and it takes you to the right place.  The Odts advantage is that you can keep a copy on your machine and edit them for personal use.  If you want to do a lot of edits then the Documentation team might appreciate comments to help them improve the guides for everyone.  They are already working on improvements for the 2nd release of some of those guides anyway but would appreciate help. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi AG,

AG schrieb:

Hey list

I really, really enjoy using LibO and recommend it widely as a viable
alternative to MS Office. So, thank you developers!

I do have one bone of contention where I do think that MS Office is
superior to LibO Writer though, and that is in MS Office's formatting of
bullets. In MSO, when one inserts bullets and they appear too far away
from the border of a table, one merely needs to right click on the
bullet and select "reduce indent" (or increase for the alternative
option of moving the bullet further from the table border).

In LibO however, this function doesn't appear to exist and I find that I
have to wade through some confusing documentation with terms that I'm
not at all familiar with to achieve the same result. I'm obviously very
bad at doing so correctly however, because the effect I achieve is
variable, and inevitably ends up with the rest of the text hanging off
at indentations that I don't want.

I find this amazingly frustrating and distracts me from the actual
content of what I want to do.

Is there a simple way that I can align/ indent bullets so that they are
flush against the border of a table and not spend fruitless amounts of
time trying to figure this out from scratch each time?

I don't understand your layout. What is the connection between table and numbering?

Additionally, the alignment for numbering is messy especially when using
Roman numerals (i), (ii) because by the time one gets to (iii), the text
now appears significantly indented from the brackets of the (iii) and
just looks ridiculous.

Any straightforward suggestions on how to fix this without the
requirement for me to become some kind of text formatting guru?

If you use a anonymous numbering (= click on button in toolbar) you find the setting in Format->'Bullets and Numbering' or in contect menu -> 'Numbering/Bullets'. Got to the 'Position' tab there. Using styles you find in the 'Position' tab too. There exist too different kind of positioning depending on whether you use ODF1.0/1.1 or ODF 1.2. So if you need help using that dialog, please describe whether your dialog has a line 'indent' with spin field (=ODF1.0/1.1) or a line 'Numbering followed by' with drop down list (=ODF1.2)

My way of handling such things as general setting is to do it once in a style and make a document template which contains this style.

Kind regards
Regina

I do have one bone of contention where I do think that MS Office is superior to LibO Writer though, and that is in MS Office's formatting of bullets. In MSO, when one inserts bullets and they appear too far away from the border of a table, one merely needs to right click on the bullet and select "reduce indent" (or increase for the alternative option of moving the bullet further from the table border).

Whilst the experts are arguing, may I attempt some assistance? ;^)

You need to open the Bullets and Numbering dialogue. You can get to this at right-click | Numbering/Bullets... or at Format | Bullets and Numbering... or through the button at the right of the Bullets and Numbering toolbar. (I see you mention tables. When the cursor is in a table cell, the context menu does not appear to include "Numbering/Bullets...", so you will have to use one of the two other routes.) In this dialogue, select the Position tab. To modify the indenting of your bullets, simply change the value for "Aligned at".

I'm obviously very bad at doing so correctly however, because the effect I achieve is variable, and inevitably ends up with the rest of the text hanging off at indentations that I don't want.

By default, I think any text will not have hanging indents, but these may well appear if you have modified the alignment as above. But you can simply correct the indentation by modifying the "Indent at" value on the Position tab. If you want no further indents, you probably want the "Indent at" value to match the tab stop position under "Numbering followed by".

Is there a simple way that I can align/ indent bullets so that they are flush against the border of a table and not spend fruitless amounts of time trying to figure this out from scratch each time?

Yes: set the "Aligned at" value to zero.

Additionally, the alignment for numbering is messy especially when using Roman numerals (i), (ii) because by the time one gets to (iii), the text now appears significantly indented from the brackets of the (iii) and just looks ridiculous.

The text is aligned by default at a tab stop, and the default position for this is too close to for your "(iii)" to fit in - so the text is moved to the next tab stop (probably one of the regularly spaced default tab stops). To remedy this, increase the value for the tab stop position under "Numbering followed by".

Any straightforward suggestions on how to fix this without the requirement for me to become some kind of text formatting guru?

I suggest you spend a few minutes experimenting with values on the Position tab; then you might become a guru!

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker

It's all about styles. Every formatting featue in all components of LibreOffice assumes that you are familiar the concept of templates and styles.

Fyi, in 3.4 (3.4.3 at least), it is now 'Pivot Table', not 'Data Pilot'.

Not a good idea, how to suggest this is not changed in LO33?

I think it's fine... changing the name of a function for no other reason than 'to be different' is silly. If the function does the exact same thing as 'another popular office package', then naming it the same is perfectly reasonable.

That said, I don't think it will be changed in 3.3, only newer versions moving forward.

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: