![[TEST] Document Foundation Community](https://communitytest.documentfoundation.org/images/discourse-logo-sketch.png){kind=logo}
Hi,
My daughter's in need of Microsoft access for her homework - she's studying
computer
technology at high school, and she needs Access for coding. Anyone knows if
liber office should do the job?
Thanks in advance.
Well others will know more than me on this, but from my ltd experience
I'd ask what OS your daughter has e.g. I hope it's not Windows 8.1?
ATB
Philip Jordan
UK
The LibreOffice Base is the LO answer to Access. My observation is that
there are similarities in concept but they are not compatible with each
other.
Hi 
Lol
+1
I think most other people might well agree with that too! 
MS Office is only available for Windows and Mac. The Mac version
doesn't have Access. LibreOffice is available on most things.
Regards from
Tom
Hi
Sorry to say that Access is not compatible with almost any other
database program. Even down to the sql language under the surface of
the Queries it is different from all the rest.
Access is also very restricted in what it can do and how it can be
used - for example it only supports single user input at a time rather
than being able to handle multiple users. Some of it's restrictions
can be by-passed if you dig deep enough but it's probably better to
use something that is designed to be "the right tool for the job"
rather than to twist Access outside of it's comfort-zone. If she
learns how to use Access that way then she will be amazed how easy it
is to use any of the others later in life.
However it is still good to learn. There are key concepts and
generalities that are the same or very similar. Those concepts are
often difficult for people to grasp. It's possibly easier to
understand some of it if you have watched "The Matrix".
The main problem would be with trying to use any example files she is
given or that she builds on Access.
It might be possible for her to use Base to do some of her exercises
but most of it will take some initiative to adapt what they ask for in
order to fit.
For example Base is best when used with an external back-end but for
the exercises she will probably be better off using the internal
back-end. Anything teaching about Access probably wont mention
back-end vs front-end at all - which is one reason why it might be
handy to have watched "The Matrix" (but only to get the rough idea of
what it's about rather than needing to watch toooo closely - mostly
the bit about the cat and the spoon).
Regards from
Tom
Philip,
I'm not sure what your particular problem is, but I've installed
Libreoffice on multiple Win 8.1 systems with zero problems.
Methinks this may be a problem with some crapware that your hardware
vendor so thoughtfully installed for you - or possibly a PEBKAC issue...
It depends on what you mean by "coding" and what the requirements of the
course are. If she is to be coding in VBA, only Access will do. If she will
be required to use Access on tests, only Access wil do. Even the SQL that
Access uses has some differences from the SQL used in Base, since Base does
not use the Jet engine that Access uses. The reporting system in Access is
quite unique, and learning the Libreoffice equivalents would be confusing
to a beginner.
So, sadly, it looks like you'll have to use Access.
Thanks Tanstaafl
Reckon you may be right ref Hardware
but have no idea on what PEBKAC is?!
ATB
Philip
Hi
PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.
I tend to say "user error" but the acronym is useful when it might not
be diplomatic to let the user know or when they might not accept that
they might possibly have made a slight error. ie most bosses seem to
find it difficult to accept or have a problem with being undermined in
that way if front of 'lesser beings'.
Regards from
Tom
Hi all,
Thank you very much for your support.
After reading all the responses, I think I will have to get my daughter a
laptop and get her to download Access through the school at a cheaper price.
Since all our computers runs Windows Vista, and the Access from school only
works on Win 7 or Win8, I don't think I have much choice 
I hope you guys won't mind me asking would an Asus Transformer T100 serves
the purpose?
There is literally millions of laptops available out there, too many choices
to choose from.
Regards.
Lalita
Sometimes (in the uk in the past) Schools &/or Education authorities could
help by being a vehicle via which to buy something like this:
but currently, assuming you're in the UK, it could be that our continuing
austerity is a reason (among others) why this is no longer true?
So,perhaps too, the teacher/s concerned can advise where & what's best to
buy?
Hi
Good point! Is there some "IT into Schools" scheme?
Some areas have computer shops that sell 2nd hand machines or
refurbished ones but for a school kid i think you kinda have to go for
something new with a bit of a "wow" factor otherwise kids kinda get
picked on.
I'm not much good at picking hardware but the Asus Transformer T100
looks nice. Notebook is about the right size as anything smaller
(such as a Netbook) tends to be tooo slow with Windows on. Notebook
is large enough that you might even be able to set-up a dual-boot with
Ubuntu or something in the future. A quick google search seems to
suggest £200 - £300 which seems about as cheap as you can get anything
worth getting, with Windows on. Windows 8 is radically different from
Win7/Xp. Definitely avoid Vista! It looks a lot like Win7/Xp but
it's already being retired. Win8 is the new way forwards so even
though it's a pain it's something Windows users are going to have to
learn.
The "wow" factor of being able to transform from notebook (nice
keyboard action) to tablet (good for multimedia and just viewing
things). I have heard that these sort of hybrid/transformer types are
sometimes tricky when being used as a tablet because it's too easy to
get stuck into something that needs really kinda needs a keyboard but
i'm guessing that was because the reviewers don't have kid's sized
fingers and they kinda fat-fingered some of the smaller controls.
Of course you can still have LibreOffice or OpenOffice on it (or both
but that would be excessive!) alongside MS Office. I think a LOT of
people do that. It's often because they have some old version of MS
Office and are looking to migrate away from MS. However each is
better at handling different formats so having both means you can open
pretty much anything even if the other kids struggle to share stuff.
When you get MS Office you need to check that whichever bundle you get
does include Access. That sounds obvious but most "academic" or
student bundles don't have Access and that's one of the reasons it's
so much cheaper. Remember the aim of MS is to make a profit from
people and to make them feel like it's all their own fault when they
do something wrong. So if you do get the wrong bundle it is because
the whole bundle system is designed to be confusing.
If you do end-up with an MS Office that doesn't have Access you can
probably buy Access on it's own. Hmmm, maybe you could just get
Access on it's own without the rest of MS Office and then get
LibreOffice. Again i think the other kids might think that is too
weird.
Regards from
Tom
Hi
Yes, sadly SQL is not as standardised as was originally envisaged.
Each different application add their own range of extra features or
short-cuts or find some "better way" of doing particular instructions.
It's quite different from "ODF 1.2 Extended" where each different
program tends to have exactly identical versions of the "Extended" and
only a few try out a few different ways of doing things. Also
programs that use ODF tend to have an option to choose to use the more
standard ODF 1.2 or even go back to the ISO standard ODF 1.1/1.0.
Plus when using ODF 1.2 Extended for a specific document and then open
that document in a program that only has ODF 1.0 the document is still
handled fairly properly.
By contrast Sql is a completely messy nightmare. Access does do a
particularly impressive job of being pretty much the least compatible
with anything else - even being fairly incompatible with other MS
database programs.
Access has other problems such as not having any separation between
the way database-designers or builders see it and the way normal
office workers see it. So normal office workers are often slightly
petrified of using databases because they often find themselves
suddenly dropped into design views and stuffing the whole thing up by
accident.
It does allow Forms and Reports to try to protect normal users from
being exposed to tooo much complexity but those are only viewable in
the entirely unfamiliar Access User-Interface and all the buttons and
such could easily be completely non-standard compared to the way the
rest of the OS operates and may even be broken or become broken over
time.
Access is not like Base where look-up Forms Reports can be created in
Writer or Calc allowing the office workers to stay in familiar User
Interfaces and safely away from anything to do with design elements.
To me it's always been quite shocking that Base is marketed as being
the equivalent of or a suitable replacement for Access. Base, even as
it is at the moment, is sooo much more advanced than Access could ever
hope to be.
Regards from
Tom
Hi,
My daughter's in need of Microsoft access for her homework - she's studying
computer
technology at high school, and she needs Access for coding. Anyone knows if
liber office should do the job?
Short answer - no. LibreOffice will not produce Microsoft Access
databases, nor will it allow you to use the same query system, form
designer, or report maker.
LibreOffice can, under certain conditions however, read and write data
to/from MS Access databases, but anything your daughter manages to build
in the way of queries or forms or reports will not be readable by others
using MS Access.
So, either get her MS Access, or else complain to the high school that
it would be better to teach their students database programming with
freely accessible tools, rather than being locked in to one vendor.
Alex
"Alex Thurgood":
database programming with
freely accessible tools, rather than being locked in to one vendor.
Such as? Don't tell me fosstards have developed something as elegant as Access.
We can all thanks Urmas for raising the level of discussions here. That's
outright aggressive, for those that still have doubt.
Hi lalitadatta
What Tom writes below are very good points. I can understand that it may be a bit too much detail but it is valuable information for the school involved. It really puzzles me why schools teach concepts based on MS with a lock in policy while there is so much better software available for free as in freedom and price, running on almost every operating system and being implemented on large scale in a professional environment. In short: Software you want students to work with.
In my opinion you would do the school, the parents and not at least the students a favour by handing over this mail to the school/teacher involved.
Having said that, my daughter is using OpenOffice and LibreOffice for 9 years now. She is starting with her master and never used MS Office - despite all efforts of the schools and universities to force her into MS Office - for example by mandating MS Word style sheets for a thesis.
The school/teacher is welcome on this list or personal if questions arise and I really hope you hand this over though it does not answer your question directly.
Concerning hardware in addition to what is said by others: Don't expect miracles from the T100 but it should be able to do the job. Lack of internal memory will force your daughter in time to move larger files to a usb-disk or stick - i.e. movies in paticular. There are also models with more memory, 64GB. You may want to (let someone) remove all unneeded pre-installed software you get for "free" since this will free memory and increases performance.
Best regards, Wiebe
this comes with office student edition 2013 pre-installed:
http://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/ASUS_Transformer_Book_T100TA/
In any case, Windows 7 and windows 8.1 (not windows 8) will be
eligible for a free upgrade to windows 10. If you are short in disk
space, buy ad external hard disk for 50 bucks (toshiba...), good also
to save your important files twice.
but not access...
Lest anyone should take this at face value, may I point out that this is untrue? You are confusing memory and disk space.
As you say, 64 gigabytes is a lot of memory - but it's quite small for a disk drive. Limited memory will restrict the system's performance, but stored files take up disk space, not memory. Moving saved files to external devices can free up disk space but this doesn't affect performance - unless the disk is almost full, that is. Even a larger video file makes no demands on memory unless it is actually in use. The only sense in which unneeded software can affect performance is if it is secretly loaded at start-up or log-in. Disabling such default behaviour can be wise - but there is no additional advantage in removing the products.
Brian Barker