Do LO installers have Java Runtime?

David_B_Teague_sr · September 10, 2011, 3:41am

I run W7 64 bit, 4 gig RAM.
jre-6u19-windows-i586-s.exe

I have three questions: Do I want to install LO 3.4.3 or LO 3.3.4? Why?
and
OO.o was available with or without Java in the installer. The Java Runtime with OO.o was always old, so I always fetched the OO.o installation without Java runtime. I find no mention of whether LO has java runtime with the installer. Could someone tell me about this?

David Teague
-- nil significat nisi oscillat

planas · September 10, 2011, 4:53am

David

I run W7 64 bit, 4 gig RAM.
jre-6u19-windows-i586-s.exe

I have three questions: Do I want to install LO 3.4.3 or LO 3.3.4?

The two series are very similar and stable. 3.3.4 tends to favor a
slightly more conservative approach while 3.4.3 favors a few more
features.
Many have found the 3.4.x series better at handling the MS Office
2007/2010 formats than the 3.3.x series

Why?
and
OO.o was available with or without Java in the installer. The Java
Runtime with OO.o was always old, so I always fetched the OO.o
installation without Java runtime. I find no mention of whether LO has
java runtime with the installer. Could someone tell me about this?

I do not believe Java is included. The primary need for Java is with
Base, the current Base engine requires Java.

Tom_Davies · September 10, 2011, 9:37am

Hi
On Windows i would go for the 3.4.3 at this point. It combines the best of
both branches. On Gnu&Linux i am staying with the release that is in the
repositories/ppa.
Regards from
Tom

Tom_Davies · September 10, 2011, 10:12am

Hi
LibreOffice does not include any version of java. The _19 is quite old so
you might want to get a more recent one from the Oracle website. The best
one for LibreOffice is the _21 but you might want to have 2 versions; one
for your web-browsers and a separate one for LibreOffice. If you can't find
the _21 then we might be able to help.

Hopefully you don't need java at all for LibreOffice. Try un-ticking the
box in
Tools - Options - LibreOffice - Java
If anything grumbles when you open it then you can always tick it again and
re-open the document. If you can do without Java then you will find the
LibreOffice opens up faster.

Java used to be owned by the same organisation that owned OpenOffice so
including a version of java was uncomplicated. Now that java is owned by a
3rd party, Oracle, there is potential for them to try to make things
awkward. The licence is currently ok but we don't know what direction they
are going to move in. That's not why java dependence is being written out
of the code tho. The main reasons seem to be that it is slow, heavy and
unnecessary.
Regards from
Tom

krackedpress · September 10, 2011, 12:59pm

OpenJDK is back up, and here is the link for version 6 build 21. This is the place where the OpenJDK had Windows installers, but is shows Linux and Mac Intel installers as well. The OpenJDK site shows how to install in Linux via the repositories.

http://openscg.org/se/openjdk/index.jsp

David_B_Teague_sr · September 10, 2011, 3:29pm

Many thanks for your useful and informative response.
Then OO.o makes more use of Java than LO does?

More questions:

Some say LO versions have problems recognizing some versions of Java.
Here, LO 3.3.04 runs with jre-6u19-windows-i586-s.
Should I expect trouble with LO 3.4.3 with this version of jre?

What about the jre version 7? (I think 7 is the current version.)

David Teague

krackedpress · September 10, 2011, 3:52pm

I keep hearing that the newer version may be slower to do the work. As for version 7, I have not used it. Linux version appear to use OpenJDK instead of the normal Oracle JRE. They have it part of their repositories, but you can find a Windows installer by Google-ing for one.

I have run my Vista laptop version of LO with version 6 update 23. I was told that the JRE goes downhill with speed of use after that. Some say update 21 might be the best one to use, for now. Some like OpenJDK instead of the JRE, while some do not.

LO people are working on converting the codes that need Java to ones that do not need it. Some extension will still require it though. To be honest, would you want your software package to work based upon someone else's software "package" to work? I.E., when they have issues, then you would as well?

Now that OOo no longer is part of Oracle's product line, will Apache continue to use the JRE as part of the package, or will they go LO's route and replace the coding that require it. I believe LO is replacing some of that code with Python based code instead of Java based.

David_B_Teague_sr · September 10, 2011, 4:00pm

Many thanks for this further information. I'll fetch LO 3.4.3 and install it. For the present, I'll leave jre 6u19 in place, and look for a Windows version of Open JDK to replace Oracle Java.

I'll be pleased to leave Oracle to its own money-grubbing devices.

With Warmest Regards
David Teague
Double Bass in Fifths Tuning
Obligato Strings for fifths tuning

David_B_Teague_sr · September 10, 2011, 10:04pm

In the tutorial for Windows installation, I am given this last line,

--- Set JAVA_HOME and Run Tomcat (or JBoss or Resin or ...) as you normally would. ---

but I do not normally run any of these.

I have no idea what Tomcat, JBoss or Resin are nor why I might want to run them. I hope it is not necessary for me to understand this to use OpenJDK to satisfy the LO requirement for Java runtime.

I did a Google search for each of these, but no light was forthcoming.

Please advise.

David Teague

<SNIP>

nunojsilva · September 10, 2011, 10:43pm

OpenJDK is back up, and here is the link for version 6 build 21.

[...]

http://openscg.org/se/openjdk/index.jsp

In the tutorial for Windows installation, I am given this last line,

--- Set JAVA_HOME and Run Tomcat (or JBoss or Resin or ...) as you normally would. ---

but I do not normally run any of these.

I have no idea what Tomcat, JBoss or Resin are nor why I might want to
run them. I hope it is not necessary for me to understand this to use
OpenJDK to satisfy the LO requirement for Java runtime.

I know Tomcat is a webserver to run java web applications, but I have no
clue about the others. But I guess they're all applications which use
java and that rely on JAVA_HOME to find the installed JRE or JDK.

So the only thing you might need to do here is to set the JAVA_HOME
environment variable, but I don't know if that's even required in order
to use java in LibreOffice.

According to your message headers, you're running Windows 6.1 (marketed
as 7, dunno why...), so here follow a couple links on how to set
environment variables:

http://searchsystemschannel.techtarget.com/feature/Setting-Windows-7-environment-variables
http://www.itechtalk.com/thread3595.html

krackedpress · September 10, 2011, 10:52pm

Yes there are problems with their info. I just PDF printed the page and will be looking into the issue later. I do not have any Windows machine running right now, so I cannot check out what is needed.

Right now, Base needs some Java and some of the extensions do as well.

David_B_Teague_sr · September 12, 2011, 3:17pm

Thanks to Tom and all who responded. I knew about Oracle and their ... how to say it ... obstructionism, that's why I moved to LO. I was never happy about Java for any application. It is interpreted, and even with a reasonable "just in time" compiler, it is still slow. But my colleagues in CS ... I'll fetch 3.4.3 and the OpenJSP to see if that will replace what little need I have for Java.

David

Tom_Davies · September 12, 2011, 9:32pm

Hi
I think OpenJDK
http://openjdk.java.net/
is owned by Oracle. Also
JDK = Java Development Kit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK
So it's going to expect you to want to install a few other bits&bobs which
you probably don't need because you are not interested in doing coding in
java (well you might be but it doesn't sound like it so far).

JRE = Java Runtime Environment
Presumably there is one of these inside the OpenJDK7 but i couldn't find a
separate OpenJRE.

So, there is a huge amount i don't know about java. If you can untick the
java from your LibreOffice and have no troubles then that would be
fantastic.
Regards from
Tom

David_B_Teague_sr · September 13, 2011, 1:32am

Tom:

Damn. I was under the impression that OpenJDK was a free implementation by someone other than Oracle. I'll untick Java in LO and see what happens. I'd like to be Java free. No make that Oracle free. I dislike them far more than I dislike Java.

I taught computer science from 1978 to 2004 and saw our department move from Fortran to Pascal to C++ then take a huge step backward and go to Java. I retired rather than learn Java. Lots of other good reasons to retire too but that's the story I tell.

So I don't know much about Java either.

Many thanks for the correction.

With Warmest Regards
David Teague

NoOp · September 13, 2011, 2:13am

...

So, there is a huge amount i don't know about java. If you can untick the
java from your LibreOffice and have no troubles then that would be
fantastic.
Regards from
Tom

...

Tom:

Damn. I was under the impression that OpenJDK was a free implementation
by someone other than Oracle. I'll untick Java in LO and see what
happens. I'd like to be Java free. No make that Oracle free. I dislike
them far more than I dislike Java.

I taught computer science from 1978 to 2004 and saw our department move
from Fortran to Pascal to C++ then take a huge step backward and go to
Java. I retired rather than learn Java. Lots of other good reasons to
retire too but that's the story I tell.

David,

Just install the current versions of java via java.com (Win32 and Win64:
http://java.com/en/download/manual.jsp) on your system and be done with
all of this. Note: you only need the 32bit version for LO, so you can
skip the 64bit version if none of your 64bit applications need it.

Re: OpenJDK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK
http://openjdk.java.net/faq/

Regarding Java 1.7:
http://java.com/en/download/faq/java7.xml

Regarding Java + LO:
<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/system-requirements/>
<quote>
For certain features of the software - but not most - Java is required.
Java is notably required for Base.
</quote>
Note: it's also required for several 'Wizards' (File|Wizards).

Regarding versions other than the most recent standard versions (ala 21
vs 26): do so *only* at your own risk. Earlier versions of java contain
serious security risks & those advocating that you use something else
are... I'll not go on & nuff said in other threads.

krackedpress · September 13, 2011, 3:27am

Well, Oracle may have OpenJDK on their site, but they did not have a Windows version. I had to go to the following site to find a Windows and Mac installer that the openjdk.java.net did not have.

http://openscg.org/se/openjdk/index.jsp

Also, it was Java.NET, where you link was Java.COM.

So there is some issues with who's OpenJDK version you are going to use.

[quote from the WIKI page]
OpenJDK (aka Open Java Development Kit) is a free and open source implementation of the Java programming language.[2] It is the result of an effort Sun Microsystems began in 2006. The implementation is licensed under the GNU General Public License (GPL) with a linking exception, which exempts components of the Java class library from the GPL licensing terms.

OpenJDK will become the official Java SE 7 reference implementation.[3]
[unquote]

So it is open source, but it seems to be part of the Java system. By the Way - When I downloaded the JRE for Windows, it was under Java SE not JRE.

Tom_Davies · September 13, 2011, 9:18am

Hi
Yes, i had assumed that OpenJDK was independant of Oracle but stuff that was owned by Sun is generally ownd by Oracle. OOo seems to be moving to Apache but that seems to be an exception to the rule.

If you can keep java unticked then it's only certain Add-ons / Extensions, some wizards and sometimes Base (i think only really if you use the default back-end (HqSql) and even then only when you are creating the database although there might be a lot more java calls elsewhere in Base). So, if you run into a problem with one of them not working it is probably possible to temporarily tick java, complete the task and then untick again.

Regards from
Tom