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baldwin linguas wrote:

I can remember writing college papers with Clarisworks.
And there was Wordperfect from Corel.
Although, I'm uncertain whether these were before or after MSOffice.
I saw them both before I ever heard of MSOffice, though.

Let's see...Clarisworks was released 1984.
StarOffice (Sun) was released in 1985.
Lotus 1 2 3 was released in 1983, but apparently Lotus Notes wasn't until 1989.
Wordperfect for DOS was released in 1989.

And MSOffice was released in 1991.

Of course, neither Staroffice (Sun), Lotus (IBM) nor Wordperfect
(Corel), had a full suite, initially,
as far as I am aware, but Clarisworks/Appleworks did, well before MSOffice.
OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice, of course, are both children of the
old StarOffice.

I used to use PC-Write on DOS many years ago. IIRC, the same company
had a spreadsheet and database available. Of course, if we don't limit
ourselves to PCs, the mainframe and minicomputer world had "office"
software long before there was such a thing as a PC.

James Knott wrote:

I used to use PC-Write on DOS many years ago. IIRC, the same company
had a spreadsheet and database available. Of course, if we don't limit
ourselves to PCs, the mainframe and minicomputer world had "office"
software long before there was such a thing as a PC.

Forgot to include the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staroffice

We all have had favorite packages for doing documentation over the
years. I am an avid user for LO, but I remember the days before LO/OOo
came out. I used different packages for different applications, and use
MSO only when I had to. I use to use word processors that looked more
like text editors. I really do not remember all of the packages I had
tried over the years, but I did have copies of Works, WordPerfect, and
MSO 95-2003. My first-favorite was PC-Write, where I helped create
printer "drivers" for the package. Of course that was DOS days.

Starting with Windows, I had to use WordPerfect and Word, depending on
who the documents were for. But, with older, slower systems, the newer
Word/MSO was getting too bulky and slow for ease of use. I was lucky
that OOo just came out about then.

Even with LO as my office suite, I still use Kate [Ubuntu Linux] for the
text editor and Kompozer for WYSIWYG editing. I use NoteTab and/or
NotePad ++ in the Windows systems, when I need a text editor instead of
a word processor.

I do not need to use LaTeX or similar options, but if I did then I would
either add an extension to LO to do it or find an editor dedicated for
that type or work.

I am of the school of "what ever way is easiest for me/you is the best
way for me/you". I use Writer to make signs, that are not complex
enough to need Corel Draw, Inkscape, or Draw. Actually, sometimes I
power up a Windows boot on my laptop to run a package or two there that
are easier and faster to use than anything I have on my Linux system [my
main/default desktop is Ubuntu 12.04 with 6 TB of drive space]. Then,
once I have done the work, I move it over to my Linux desktop for
farther processing and/or storage. Of course, I have LO on all my Linux
and Windows systems [both single or dual booting systems]

In data sabato 2 novembre 2013 17:11:55, Fred James ha scritto:

Urmas wrote:
> "Jay Lozier":
>> Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.
>
> There were no 'office packages' before Microsoft Office.
>
>> Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
>> was released.
>
> They didn't design the first, but they have designed the best

So tell me, Urmas, if you find MSO to be the best, why are your here on
an LO list?

We usually use this term: "debunkering"

In data sabato 2 novembre 2013 17:38:27, Jay Lozier ha scritto:

> Urmas wrote:
> > Just a simple question, Do you know who originally designed Microsoft
> > Office?
> >
> > Microsoft mostly.
>
> IIRC, they bought what became Excel and I believe Word too, from other
> companies.

Microsoft did not develop the first office productivity packages.
Several predated any MS offerings and were available before the IBM-PC
was released. How MS precisely entered the office productivity market is
less important than the fact there were other packages available at that
time. Basic text parsing has been done for a long time.

Visi-Calc was the first spreadsheet and was available on the Apple II.
Dedicated word processors (Wang) were available.

Seems to be the same story as Netscape vs. Internet Exploder... oops
Explorer...

You trying to be funny read some spam before now but that take the biscuit

Pete .

Valter Mura wrote:

Seems to be the same story as Netscape vs. Internet Exploder... oops
Explorer...

MS was also late to the game for the Internet. Apparenly BG didn't
think much of it. IIRC, they bought another app to make IE.

"P NIKOLIC":

You trying to be funny

Which one is (or was) better then?

Thats not totally correct if I remember right. Office started out as a
joint project between IBM and Microsoft for the original PC. There was a
differnet of directions and MS wnd IBM went there own ways. MS took a
lot of the joint developemt (Stole) with them. we used to use Wordstar
on or PC's.

Russ

BS!!! The only thing MS ever developed from scratch without stealing anything was "Bob".

With all of the posts in all of the threads, it is not unusual that things would get confusing. I only point out that I was not the source of the quote in the following email. At this point, I don't know who wrote it.

Virgil

"Les Howell":

Just a simple question, Do you know who originally designed Microsoft
Office?

Microsoft mostly.

/snip/

Thats not totally correct if I remember right. Office started out as a
joint project between IBM and Microsoft for the original PC. There was a
differnet of directions and MS wnd IBM went there own ways. MS took a
lot of the joint developemt (Stole) with them. we used to use Wordstar
on or PC's.

Russ

It wasn't originally MS Office, it was just MS Word. It ran on DOS,
just like WordStar, but it had some basic word-processing functions
listed at the bottom, and it worked with a mouse, if I recall, which
WordStar did not. WordStar required a bunch of ctrl-x functions, where
x was some keyboard letter. This was, I believe, derived from
Teletype terminal days, where some k/b functions we expect, even some
found on a typewriter, didn't exist. Functions on a modern k/b, like
the up/down/left/right arrows were implemented by ctrl-x. Even
backspace, which doesn't exist on a teletype machine--ctrl-h will
do it. Even on a few programs today, but not T/Bird--I just tried!
I think Word was the first word processor to use a mouse, but I could
be wrong. After memorizing all the control functions in WordStar,
I stayed with it for quite a while, until WordPerfect came out.
I still won't use Word--WP is better, imho. I wish it were still
available for Linux.

--doug

Actually Wordstar used control-J to access various functions. It was
designed that way to eliminate the need to take your hands off the home
row. If you were proficient with Wordstar and a touch typist, you were
about 10-15% percent faster than someone using Word. Many newspaper
reporters used it just for that reason. Microsoft hated the competition
and so captured the control-J function (which happens to be a line
feed.) This meant that the Windows systems would not run Wordstar.

Wordstar also had WYSIWYG using these sequences to display the various
superscript, and subscript and other characters, including the math
characters and of course the nice 1/2 and 1/4 symbols as well.
Wordstar came with Mailmerge and was a wonderful package for people
doing newsletters or other mass mail programs.

I hated that microsoft trapped the control J sequence and made it
impossible to use Wordstar. The Wordstar team worked out a new
interface, but just as they released it, Microsoft made another low
level change to the windows interface that made the Wordstar team have
to create yet another work around, missing the market window. And
losing the ability to not have to use a mouse for the 80% composting
task.

Word was similar to another word processing program, but I can no longer
remember its name. The spreadsheet was a purchase, which Microsoft
"reengineered" and added some features and removed some to make it
compatible with their GUI, and they also changed the storage style,
which originally was all text based. I don't remember all the changes
now. I used that original spreadsheet, It was called supercalc or
something like that.

Personally I wish Wordstar was still available, before the MOUSE ruined
touch typing.

But word processors are subject to the whims of taste. I also did some
formal materials for marketing. I used a Macintosh with a simple text
editor and a program called Ready, Set, Go which was a separate
typesetting program, which included the ability to embed 3 to 6 layer
color graphics with a WYSIWYG on a Macintosh, but that was in the 1987
time frame I think.

The calendar application was similar to the calendar with events that
was part of the Wordstar package as well, but Microsoft embedded theirs
into Outlook about 1990 something. Wordstar was a full suite if you got
all the options, and could do many things that Word didn't begin to
accomplish until about 1995.

The reason I brought this up is because wordprocessing has been around a
very long time. Unix had some nice packages prior to 1984, and I used
some of them while I was still in the Navy. But with the demise of
Wordstar, I just gave up and started using the mouse. The mouse makes
the job both faster to learn and much slower to use, but that seems to
be the way of the world.

We all have our preferences.

Regards,
Les H

"Les Howell"

Microsoft hated the competition
and so captured the control-J function (which happens to be a line
feed.) This meant that the Windows systems would not run Wordstar.

That's bullshit. Ctrl+J is a shortcut for Justify and... a paragraph mark in text controls.

The Wordstar team worked out a new
interface, but just as they released it, Microsoft made another low
level change to the windows interface that made the Wordstar team have
to create yet another work around, missing the market window.

In which version it made that change? Stop spreading FUD.

Obnoxious is a word that springs to mind ..

Pete .