Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

l10n
#1

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:

Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
Calc extension:

<name lang="he">NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc</name>

#2

hi,

2018.05.03 19:57, Németh László rašė:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

Lithuanian seems quite OK.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

Not sure which format is the default.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Not sure if these questions only apply to Spanish or not. I would certainly think it's best to support all possible genders.

Also, I noticed that two ways of spelling out are currently not supported for Lithuanian (Year and Formal number, whatever that is).

Also, the default currency is incorrect for Lituania. We switched to Euro a few years ago, but the library default is still LTL. This should definitely be changed, unless it's not that library, but some other...

Cheers,
Rimas

#3

I'm thinking about this for last two days and have some concerns. Chapters are spelled out like First, Second and so on, but Croatian has three genders and masculinum should be used in Calc when turning spelling out numbers, but in Writer - for chapter numbers - neutrum makes more sense but I doubt default format support both.

Current version of Croatian Numbertext is at

https://github.com/krunose/hr-numbertext

and any advice would be much appreciated. Didn't include this to Numbertext.org as decimal number should be done first, but I guess this whole spell out thing might speed things up...

Thanks,
Kruno

#4

Þann fim 3.maí 2018 16:57, skrifaði Németh László:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

My language (Icelandic) is not there, but I don't see any trouble except for 1st, 2nd... which we treat as numbers (1., 2., ...) and then there's a big gender issue*.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

In Icelandic there has to be an 'and': 'eitt hundrað og einn'

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Numbers/adjectives take on gender in Icelandic; Book/Page/Paragraph would be feminine, Chapter/Part/Section are masculine, and in formal speech without referencing which kind of item we would use neutral form.
Also this is a stylistic minefield...

Best regards,
Sveinn í Felli

#5

Hi,

great initiative, thanks!

Dne 3.5.2018 v 18:57 Németh László napsal(a):

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

Not correct for Czech: all words should be modified for ordinal numbers while it is the case for the last one only; there are also incorrect details in another categories.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

I assume that support for all genders is needed, in Czech both masculine and feminine are commonly used for the outline numbering.

Best regards,
Stanislav

#6

Hi László

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

For pt and pt-BR

Cardinal numbers: OK

Ordinal numbers: Depends on gender of the noun.
e.g. 1234 can be
"milésima duocentésima trigésima quarta" if the noun gender is feminine
"milésimo duocentésimo trigésimo quarto" if the noun gender is masculine

Ordinal indicator: Same as above
e.g.
"Parágrafo 1.º"
"Cláusula 2.ª"
(pt-BR keyboard has native support for º and ª)

Default currency: for both pt (EUR) and pt-BR (BRL) the currency gender
is masculine.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

not for pt or pt-BR

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

For pt & pt-BR, cardinal numbers have no gender.
"Página um"
"Página dois"
"Capítulo cinco"

#7

Hi László,

not an easy task you have set out to accomplish! I think you will have to hope that more than one person per language will answer, because it will be easy to overlook some specialty, as a native speaker uses these terms without much thinking about.

Here are my answers for German, I hope they are complete as regards German for Germany, but I don't swear to it:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

For German one can only see cardinal numbers which are OK, including the reverse order for the last two digits (e.g. 43 = forty-three = dreiundvierzig).

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

Ordinal numbers seem also to be OK (gender problem see below); ordinal indicator is simply a point/dot, as supplied in that site, so that's easy.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

As regards this example, you may indeed say "einhundertundeins" or "einhunderteins" or even "hunderteins" and also "hundertundeins", which all will be regarded as correct, but the version "einhunderteins", which is also proposed by numbertext.github.io, is in my opinion the most common and sufficient for all German-speaking communities.
But there is one difference between german (and austrian and probably luxembourgian) and swiss usage (and I don't know which is followed by Liechtenstein): The Swiss don't use ß, but ss, so thirty = dreißig (Germany...), but dreissig (Switzerland). This is, for numbers, the only difference I know of; numbertext.github.io reflects this correctly.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

No, it's not sufficient, if you intend to support the second style. For the first style cardinal numbers are used, so there's no problem. But for the ordinal numbers needed for the second style you have to respect the three genders:
In the sequence of your example:
Erstes Buch/Erster Teil/Erstes Kapitel/Erster Abschnitt/Erste Seite/Erster Absatz
or with gender:
neutral Buch/male Teil/neutral Kapitel/male Abschnitt/female Seite/male Absatz
Luckily, these suffixes ("s" for neutral, "r" for male, none for female, in addition to the form supplied by numbertext.github.io) are regular; and for the form "the first..." (don't know the grammatical term in English), if you should also cover it, there is only the female form which you already find in numbertext.github.io.
This, though, rises the question how to specify which gender should be used in a certain context.
Personally I would not object if you do not implement the second style, as it sounds antiquated, although it was certainly used. Even the first style (using text for a number) I would regard as uncommon/rare.

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Cardinal Number as seen above is OK for currency.
For date there are/may be differences, I know of one: Austrians use "Jänner" instead of "Januar" for january normally, also on TV, for example, but I cannot say if using "Januar" as in Germany would be OK for Austria as well.

Best regards,
László

P.S: A recent question (comes from Rene Engelhard) for Hebrew contributors:

Is the Hebrew correct in the next line of resource file of the Numbertext
Calc extension:

<name lang="he">NUMBERTEXT() וMONEYTEXT() פונקציות גליון Calc</name>

Gerhard

#8

Hi László,

I forgot to remark that there are differences regarding point 2, in french/belgian/swiss usage for 70, 80, 90 and associated numbers, which are already covered in numbertext.github.io.

#9

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage

Setting this ordering is tricky.

Book One -> Knjiga prva / Prva knjiga (femininum)
Part One -> Prvo poglavlje (neutrum) [Prvi dio (masculinum)]
Section One -> Prvi dio (masculinum)
Page One -> Prva stranica (less common Stranica prva) (femininum)
Paragraph One -> Prvi odlomak (less common Odlomak prvi) (masculinum)

Practically only ordinal numbers are used.

But if Book, part, section, page or paragraph is omited then is most common to use ordinal numbers in neutrum.

Most common is to use ordinal number with noun after it. Guess having cardinal numbers in Headings without noun that follows is not wrong but not really used.

Is it possible to extend Soros so regular expression matches nouns like Book/Part/Section/Page/Paragraph so output is preprepared regarding to that?

Kruno

#10

Hi László,

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

French has different numbering between fr-CH, fr-FR, fr-BE, fr-CA
example: 'quatre-vingt-onze' in fr-FR is 'nonante et un' in fr-CH,
fr-BE, fr-CA

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

There is also a difference between fr-FR and the others:
for example 21 should be written
vingt et un in fr-FR, vingt-et-un (with hyphens) in other French.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)

Number is never alone and then there is a gender issue, because book and
page have not the same gender for example.

Ordinal number are used before noun (like Première partie for Part One,
Premier chapitre for Chapter One). Cardinal number without noun are
quiet never used. Cardinal number with noun are used too (mostly in books).

First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Cheers
Sophie

#11

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),

Great!

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

There is no Bulgarian; I used the Soros IDE to create a module and it is
now almost complete (only the currency part is remaining) but I could not
find how to add it to the list when it is ready. What is the procedure?

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

The only similar issue for Bulgarian that comes to my mind is that some
numbers have alternative names, for example 15 may be "петнадесет" (more
formal) or "петнайсет" (less formal but also OK in writing). These are not
dependent on language variants though, just style preference. My module
currently uses the formal ones.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English,
but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

In Bulgarian, spelled out numerals in chapter numbering are almost always
ordinal ("First chapter" rather than "Chapter one"). Both ordinal and
cardinal numerals have gender that must agree with the gender of the noun,
so all genders must be supported:

първа книга/част/глава/страница (first book/part/chapter/page, feminine)
първи раздел/абзац (first section/paragraph, masculine)
един долар (one dollar, masculine)
една лира (one pound, feminine)
едно евро (one euro, neuter)

Since apparently many languages are like this, maybe we need an option for
the user to select a particular Soros macro (probably through a
user-friendly name rather than things like "ordinal-feminine") for each
numbering level. This can also be used to switch between alternative number
names like the ones described above.

Cheers,
Mihail

#12

Hi,

I'll add to (or repeat something) what Rimas wrote about Lithuanian.

2018-05-03, kt, 19:58 Németh László <nemeth@numbertext.org> rašė:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

Seems to be correct for Lithuanian, however, gender issue arises for
ordinal numbers.
Moreover, dot is never used as an ordinal indicator in Lithuanian.​
​
​ Instead, either "-as" (masculine) or "-a" (feminine) is appended to a
number as an ordinal indicator (again, dependent on the gender).​
If a year should be spelled out in Lithuanian, it would require yet another
form - pronominal plural numeral.

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal

usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

​If I understand the question correctly, then no. There's only one version
of Lithuanian language that suits everyone. And we don't add "and" in the
middle of spelled out numerals.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages

to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

​Numerals have to be adapted to the gender of the noun in Lithuanian.
Luckily, there's only two genders and only the last word of the numeral has
to be changed according to the gender.​
Out of the few words that were listed, book, part, section, paragraph are
feminine: pirma knyga, pirma dalis, pirma sekcija, pirma pastraipa. Chapter
and page are masculine: pirmas skyrius, pirmas puslapis.

Numerals usualy go together with noun, I can't think of a common case where
there could be number alone.
Also, ordinal number always comes before noun, so it's always "first
chapter", and never "chapter first" or "chapter one".

Regards,
Modestas

#13

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

Hi Laszlo, All

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

For Italian, from 1 to 10 there is a '$1' before the name of the number which is not correct.
Also, we need to check all variants, I noticed some missed letter (double l) in some ordinals

Are the ordinals generated automatically?

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For Italian, the default format is ok.

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

For Italian, if we consider a simple sorting, we can use only one gender (male), but if we refer to all types, we need the two ones, male and female:

Book = Libro, male
Part = Parte, female
Chapter = Capitolo, male
Section = Sezione, female
Page = Pagina, female
Paragraph = Paragrafo, male

(Note: This is the standard and present translation. There was a discussion in our list concerning a different translation for the types above, not important here.)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Ciao

#14

Hi,

New changes based on your great feedbacks:

– complete Bulgarian module by Mihail Balabanov;
– new Icelandic module (without currency support yet);
– new Slovenian ordinal number support;
– better (I hope) Czech ordinal numbers;
– fixing default currency for Lithuanian and Latvian, better ordinal
numbers in Latvian;
– etc.

I am going to update libnumbertext integration with these fixes for
LibreOffice 6.1.

We've got help from Mike Kaganski, who has not only fixed the Russian
language data, but added libnumbertext features to NatNumber native number
formatter of LibreOffice.
This will help to use the different gender functions and other number
formatting features of Numbertext language descriptions in different area
of Writer and Calc.
A Hungarian example in a Writer screencast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqnUOPMfbc – formatting a variable in
different formats at the same time, as
frequently used in contracts and legal documents.

The new NatNumber12 number formatter is still under development, but based
on this, it will be possible to add new date and other formats to the XML
locale files,
for example, the common English date format "31st December", or the common
Hungarian date formats with affixation: 2018. január 25-e/26-a (plain
date), 24-én/26-án (on 24th/26th).

Using https://numbertext.github.io/Soros.html, you can check/test all
details of the language data more easily.
For the already integrated chapter numbering (with working DOCX
import/export), you can test the default
ordinal numbers and ordinal indicators, too, adding "ordinal" and
"ordinal-number" in the input box "prefix".

For the incoming NatNum12 support, the other gender variants are available
under the prefix cardinal-feminine, ordinal-neuter etc., according to the
"help"
of the end of the modules. With empty prefix input field, the Input "help"
shows the available functions, for example for Slovenian:

help ena, dve, tri
cardinal-feminine: ena, dve, tri
cardinal-masculine: ena, dva, tri
cardinal-neuter: ena, dve, tri
ordinal-feminine: prva, druga, tretja
ordinal-masculine: prvi, drugi, tretji
ordinal-neuter: prvo, drugo, tretjo
ordinal-number: 1., 2., 3.

(Unfortunately, this help misses the available cardinal-adverbial and
ordinal-adverbial, as I just noticed.)

Thanks for your help,

Best regards,
László

#15

Hi László,

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

For Galician it's OK too use cardinal number

Un, dous, tres
1, 2, 3

It's usual too the ordinal

Primeiro/a, Segundo/a, Terceiro/a
1º, 2º, 3º
1ª, 2ª, 3ª

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials

French has different numbering between fr-CH, fr-FR, fr-BE, fr-CA
example: 'quatre-vingt-onze' in fr-FR is 'nonante et un' in fr-CH,
fr-BE, fr-CA

2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.

There is also a difference between fr-FR and the others:
for example 21 should be written
vingt et un in fr-FR, vingt-et-un (with hyphens) in other French.

3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

For Galician, yes

Chapter One > Capítulo un
Section One > Sección un

Isn't incorrect "Sección unha" but isn't normal

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)

Number is never alone and then there is a gender issue, because book and
page have not the same gender for example.

Ordinal number are used before noun (like Première partie for Part One,
Premier chapitre for Chapter One). Cardinal number without noun are
quiet never used. Cardinal number with noun are used too (mostly in books).

First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

In Galician, isn't normal only the ordinal but cardinal number and noun.

First Book > Libro primeiro
First Page > Páxina primeira, Primeira páxina, (páx. 1ª), Páxina un (1)
First Section > Sección primeira (Sección 1ª ), Primeira sección (1ª
Sección) or Sección 1

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).

Currency: only cardinal, only one gender
Date: only cardinal, only one gender

#16

Hi, Laszlo,

For the incoming NatNum12 support, the other gender variants are available
under the prefix cardinal-feminine, ordinal-neuter etc., according to the
"help"
of the end of the modules. With empty prefix input field, the Input "help"
shows the available functions, for example for Slovenian:

help ena, dve, tri
cardinal-feminine: ena, dve, tri
cardinal-masculine: ena, dva, tri
cardinal-neuter: ena, dve, tri
ordinal-feminine: prva, druga, tretja
ordinal-masculine: prvi, drugi, tretji
ordinal-neuter: prvo, drugo, tretjo
ordinal-number: 1., 2., 3.

(Unfortunately, this help misses the available cardinal-adverbial and
ordinal-adverbial, as I just noticed.)

For Slovenian I am missing the "prvič, drugič, tretjič, ..." which is the

equal of "1." or "first, second, third" as in "third point"; the gender
ordinal ones you list are correct, but they count in corresponding gender,
whereas the "prvič, drugič, tretjič" is the spelled-out form of "prislovni
števnik", of the "adverbial ordinal", which would be needed in the lists,
like "prvič: this and this; drugič: this and this, ..." ... Maybe this one
can replace the "1st, 2nd, 3rd" we do not use in Slovenian as a special
graphic form.

Also, I downloaded the LO61b2 from a few days ago and it includes my
translation of the numbering, but the numberin displayed in Slovenian
document and language is not the one listed here, I only get: Ordinal 1.,
Ordinal 2., Ordinal 3. and not "Prvič, Drugič, Tretjič" ... Is this feature
not yet enabled for Slovenian?

Thanks for your help,

Thank you for your wonderful work, I hope we get this right for as many
languages as possible for the 6.1.0 release :wink:

Best regards,
Martin

#17

Hi Martin, Hi All,

Hi, Laszlo,

For the incoming NatNum12 support, the other gender variants are
available under the prefix cardinal-feminine, ordinal-neuter etc.,
according to the "help"
of the end of the modules. With empty prefix input field, the Input
"help" shows the available functions, for example for Slovenian:

help ena, dve, tri
cardinal-feminine: ena, dve, tri
cardinal-masculine: ena, dva, tri
cardinal-neuter: ena, dve, tri
ordinal-feminine: prva, druga, tretja
ordinal-masculine: prvi, drugi, tretji
ordinal-neuter: prvo, drugo, tretjo
ordinal-number: 1., 2., 3.

(Unfortunately, this help misses the available cardinal-adverbial and
ordinal-adverbial, as I just noticed.)

For Slovenian I am missing the "prvič, drugič, tretjič, ..." which is the

equal of "1." or "first, second, third" as in "third point"; the gender
ordinal ones you list are correct, but they count in corresponding gender,
whereas the "prvič, drugič, tretjič" is the spelled-out form of "prislovni
števnik", of the "adverbial ordinal", which would be needed in the lists,
like "prvič: this and this; drugič: this and this, ..." ... Maybe this one
can replace the "1st, 2nd, 3rd" we do not use in Slovenian as a special
graphic form.

The plan is to use the new NatNum12 feature to support genders and other
functions in custom or predefined number formats:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/6.1#New_.E2.80.9Cspell_out.E2.80.9D_NatNum_modifier

Moreover, it will be possible to use dozens of suffix functions for
agglutinative languages with vowel harmony (ie. word-dependent suffix
variants), like Estonian, Finnish and Hungarian, see

https://github.com/Numbertext/libnumbertext/commit/cbcc8bbcb63964e4831ee611b22cbaca1f415817

and adding dozens of predefined date formats to the locale files to support
all date variants used in templates and mail merge in these languages (for
example, for Hungarian: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/55637/)

Also, I downloaded the LO61b2 from a few days ago and it includes my
translation of the numbering, but the numberin displayed in Slovenian
document and language is not the one listed here, I only get: Ordinal 1.,
Ordinal 2., Ordinal 3. and not "Prvič, Drugič, Tretjič" ... Is this feature
not yet enabled for Slovenian?

Unfortunately, this is the fallback of the feature, when libnumbertext is
not available.

The issue with more information:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118261

Thanks for your help,

Thank you for your wonderful work, I hope we get this right for as many
languages as possible for the 6.1.0 release :wink:

Thanks, I hope that. :slight_smile: Thanks for your bug report!

Best regards,
Laszlo

#18

Hi László,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

LibreOffice Versie: 6.1.0.3
Build ID: efb621ed25068d70781dc026f7e9c5187a4decd1
CPU-threads: 4; Besturingssysteem: Linux 4.15; UI-render: standaard;
VCL: gtk2;
Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL.UTF-8); Calc: group threaded

The numbering styles appear fine in the list 'Number'
But the result in the document is broken/wrong.
Such as Ordinal 1, Ordinal 2... and not 1e / eerste, 2e / tweede, etc.

What is the status of this currently?

Cheers,
Cor

#19

Hi, Cor,

Cor Nouws <oolst@nouenoff.nl> ezt írta (időpont: 2018. szept. 12., Sze,
22:43):

Hi László,

> LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
> Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
> as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
> German examples):
>
> https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4
>
> My questions to the native language speakers:
>
> 1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

LibreOffice Versie: 6.1.0.3
Build ID: efb621ed25068d70781dc026f7e9c5187a4decd1
CPU-threads: 4; Besturingssysteem: Linux 4.15; UI-render: standaard;
VCL: gtk2;
Locale: nl-NL (nl_NL.UTF-8); Calc: group threaded

The numbering styles appear fine in the list 'Number'
But the result in the document is broken/wrong.
Such as Ordinal 1, Ordinal 2... and not 1e / eerste, 2e / tweede, etc.

What is the status of this currently?

Missing data file installation was fixed on Windows, so version 6.1.1 will
work well on it, see
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118261.

But it's possible, this won't fix the problems of the TDF build on Linux.
That uses older GCC, unfortunately, without the requested C++11 regex
support, so it's possible, only LibreOffice versions packaged by the recent
Linux distributions will show "spell out" numbering correctly for a while.

Maybe it's worth to change the fall-back formats of ordinal and ordinal
indicator numbers to simple numbers, as in the case of the cardinal
numbers, to avoid to show "ordinal 1" or "ordinal-number 1" in TDF builds.

What is your opinion?

Best regards,
László