Focus issues on Linux

[John_Jason_Jordan1]

<Started a new thread, was <Fixing 5.0 appearance">

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 10:59:12 -0800
Girvin Herr <gherrl@fastmail.com> dijo:

At this point I should also add that there has long been a bug with
floating toolbars on all Linux installations that I know of - that
is, if you have a toolbar floating it defeats the normal focus
actions of the Linux X-windows GUI. An example would make this more
clear. Let us suppose that I have only one Writer document window
open on the screen. While working on it I discover that I need to
use another program, e.g., Firefox, so I switch to a Firefox window,
leaving the Writer document on the screen. The Firefox window will
come up on top of the Writer document, as it should, but when I
later minimize the Firefox window I see the Writer document is now
completely visible again, but focus has not been restored to it. And
that means that clicking on its icon in the Xfce panel will not
minimize it until I click on the window to restore its focus. Also,
when I later restore a Writer document window quite often the
floating formatting toolbar fails to appear. I can go into View >
Toolbars and I see that it is still checked, but to get it back I
have to un-check it, then re-check it. And when I restore a document
to the screen by clicking on it in the Xfce panel it comes up on the
screen, but again without focus. I wish there was a hotkey to open
the Formatting toolbar, like F11 for the Styles toolbar, but I can't
find one. I tried to create one, but I failed.

I have lived with this bug since forever, with all versions on OO and
now LO. I was hoping that this would have finally been fixed in the
new LO 5.4, but it remains unchanged. And a few years ago I asked on
one of these lists and after much discussion I tracked the problem
down to my floating toolbars, that is, if none of my floating
toolbars are on the screen the document window takes focus as it
should, like all other application windows. Also, the problem is
specific to each individual document window, e.g., as I write this I
have three Writer documents open, I closed the floating toolbars on
one of them and that window then took focus properly, but I left the
toolbars on the other two documents and they still did not take
focus properly.

I, too, use xfce4 and this window focus problem might not be an LO
issue. I use several other apps and have experienced this frustrating
focus problem with them too. I usually don't notice it until after I
type some text and discover the text is not showing up in the window I
expected. It would be an interesting datapoint if someone in this
forum who uses KDE or another Linux desktop would confirm or deny they
experience it with those desktops.

That is very interesting. I have hundreds and hundreds of applications
installed, as I do a lot of writing and desktop publishing, as well as
working with video and multimedia. LO is the only app where the focus
problem happens for me, although it does sometimes happen on web
pages, but that is surely a problem with the html code written by the
site developer. The browser itself has no problem when restored after
being minimized. I also have two computers, a laptop and a desktop,
both with Xubuntu 14.04, and I have the same focus problem on both of
them.

Yes, it would be very interesting to hear from other Linux users. We
might need to take this to another venue if the problem is not related
to LO. I originally researched this and discovered the connection
between the focus problem and floating toolbars at least a couple years
ago and I no longer remember where I asked - surely one of the OO or LO
listservs, and possibly the Ubuntu and/or Xfce forums.

I should also add that I don't believe that I ever filed a bug report.

[Girvin_Herr2]

For the record, I am using Slackware 14.2 Linux (k4.4.88) and xfce 4.12 on an AMD dual-core Athlon 8GB RAM desktop workstation. The other apps I have seen this behavior on are gschem, an electronic engineering schematic capture program, and LibreCAD. Both of these programs switch window focus at odd, but seemingly consistent, times, like after a command is executed it will switch to a related un-docked window, where I will have to switch back to the main window to continue my work. Annoying. I have not used LO in the manner of this thread, so I cannot comment on the focus problem in LO.
I have never filed a bug-report on it anywhere either, probably because it is not fatal, just annoying.
HTH.
Girvin Herr

[Dave_Howorth]

Well I use linux but I use the openbox window manager and I don't see
any problems like this. I also use focus-follows-mouse so it may be you
need to be more specific about versions of everything and settings of
all options in order to narrow down exactly what is causing your
problems.

[krackedpress]

I am trying to follow this thread, but you may be using "window focus" a little differently than I do.

To be honest, I follow what you are saying and I believe that I never seen what you are describing under Ubuntu with MATE desktop.  I am running Ubuntu MATE 16.04.  Has any of you tried the MATE desktop to see if you get this same "focus problem"?

I currently us a laptop with dual core Intel B950 with its Intel's HD graphics. plus 4 GB memory. This is currently my "default" system. My newest laptop is an Intel 4-Core 3700 with 8 GB memory. Although, I do not use that 4-core system much for document creation - currently.  I tend to use it for audio/video presentations, for now. I do keep it up-to-date with most of my Linux packages, just like my "default" one.  Both run Ubuntu MATE 16.04, till the 18.04 comes out.

I am still using LibreOffice 5.4.3.2, but hopefully go to 5.4.4.x soon.

[Girvin_Herr2]

I just switched to Focus Follows Mouse "mode" and I like it so far. It may solve my frustration quotient. I just tested it with gschem and it does work to focus from the un-docked window to the main window with the mouse. Thanks for the suggestion.
Girvin

[Mark_Bourne]

Tim-L wrote:

<Started a new thread, was <Fixing 5.0 appearance">

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 10:59:12 -0800
Girvin Herr <gherrl@fastmail.com> dijo:

At this point I should also add that there has long been a bug with
floating toolbars on all Linux installations that I know of - that
is, if you have a toolbar floating it defeats the normal focus
actions of the Linux X-windows GUI. An example would make this more
clear. Let us suppose that I have only one Writer document window
open on the screen. While working on it I discover that I need to
use another program, e.g., Firefox, so I switch to a Firefox window,
leaving the Writer document on the screen. The Firefox window will
come up on top of the Writer document, as it should, but when I
later minimize the Firefox window I see the Writer document is now
completely visible again, but focus has not been restored to it. And
that means that clicking on its icon in the Xfce panel will not
minimize it until I click on the window to restore its focus. Also,
when I later restore a Writer document window quite often the
floating formatting toolbar fails to appear. I can go into View >
Toolbars and I see that it is still checked, but to get it back I
have to un-check it, then re-check it. And when I restore a document
to the screen by clicking on it in the Xfce panel it comes up on the
screen, but again without focus. I wish there was a hotkey to open
the Formatting toolbar, like F11 for the Styles toolbar, but I can't
find one. I tried to create one, but I failed.

I have lived with this bug since forever, with all versions on OO and
now LO. I was hoping that this would have finally been fixed in the
new LO 5.4, but it remains unchanged. And a few years ago I asked on
one of these lists and after much discussion I tracked the problem
down to my floating toolbars, that is, if none of my floating
toolbars are on the screen the document window takes focus as it
should, like all other application windows. Also, the problem is
specific to each individual document window, e.g., as I write this I
have three Writer documents open, I closed the floating toolbars on
one of them and that window then took focus properly, but I left the
toolbars on the other two documents and they still did not take
focus properly.

I, too, use xfce4 and this window focus problem might not be an LO
issue. I use several other apps and have experienced this frustrating
focus problem with them too. I usually don't notice it until after I
type some text and discover the text is not showing up in the window I
expected. It would be an interesting datapoint if someone in this
forum who uses KDE or another Linux desktop would confirm or deny they
experience it with those desktops.

That is very interesting. I have hundreds and hundreds of applications
installed, as I do a lot of writing and desktop publishing, as well as
working with video and multimedia. LO is the only app where the focus
problem happens for me, although it does sometimes happen on web
pages, but that is surely a problem with the html code written by the
site developer. The browser itself has no problem when restored after
being minimized. I also have two computers, a laptop and a desktop,
both with Xubuntu 14.04, and I have the same focus problem on both of
them.

Yes, it would be very interesting to hear from other Linux users. We
might need to take this to another venue if the problem is not related
to LO. I originally researched this and discovered the connection
between the focus problem and floating toolbars at least a couple years
ago and I no longer remember where I asked - surely one of the OO or LO
listservs, and possibly the Ubuntu and/or Xfce forums.

I should also add that I don't believe that I ever filed a bug report.

For the record, I am using Slackware 14.2 Linux (k4.4.88) and xfce 4.12 on an AMD dual-core Athlon 8GB RAM desktop workstation. The other apps I have seen this behavior on are gschem, an electronic engineering schematic capture program, and LibreCAD. Both of these programs switch window focus at odd, but seemingly consistent, times, like after a command is executed it will switch to a related un-docked window, where I will have to switch back to the main window to continue my work. Annoying. I have not used LO in the manner of this thread, so I cannot comment on the focus problem in LO.
I have never filed a bug-report on it anywhere either, probably because it is not fatal, just annoying.
HTH.
Girvin Herr

I am trying to follow this thread, but you may be using "window focus" a little differently than I do.

To be honest, I follow what you are saying and I believe that I never seen what you are describing under Ubuntu with MATE desktop.  I am running Ubuntu MATE 16.04.  Has any of you tried the MATE desktop to see if you get this same "focus problem"?

I currently us a laptop with dual core Intel B950 with its Intel's HD graphics. plus 4 GB memory. This is currently my "default" system. My newest laptop is an Intel 4-Core 3700 with 8 GB memory. Although, I do not use that 4-core system much for document creation - currently.  I tend to use it for audio/video presentations, for now. I do keep it up-to-date with most of my Linux packages, just like my "default" one. Both run Ubuntu MATE 16.04, till the 18.04 comes out.

I am still using LibreOffice 5.4.3.2, but hopefully go to 5.4.4.x soon.

Linux Mint 18.3 MATE
LibreOffice 5.1.6.2 (latest from Mint repository; I haven't got around to adding the PPA yet)

Open a terminal (just as a third application)
Open Firefox
Open LibreOffice Writer (no floating toolbars)
Switch for Firefox
Minimise Firefox
* LibreOffice gets focus (indicated by shading of the title bar and typing puts text into the document)

View > Toolbars > Form Controls (this is floating)
Switch to Firefox
Minimise Firefox
* LibreOffice does not appear to get focus (indicated by title bar shading) but typing does put text into the document (so it does actually have keyboard focus)

Switch to terminal
Switch to LibreOffice
Switch to Firefox
Minimise Firefox
* Terminal (not LibreOffice) gets focus

Switch to LibreOffice
Click within the document text area
Switch to Firefox
Minimise Firefox
* LibreOffice gets proper focus (indicated by shading of the title bar and typing puts text into the document)

Whether this is a LibreOffice or window manager issue (or interaction between the two) I couldn't say. But that's the behaviour I observe. I usually just switch to the window I want without minimising others, so probably wouldn't notice whether this happens with other applications.

[Virgil_Arrington]

I just tried this with two different Linux and LO combinations and got
the following results.

1. Puppy Tahr Linux and LO 5.3.3.2. I opened a document in Writer and
then floated a toolbar onto the document. I then opened Puppy's browser,
Pale Moon. What was interesting is that the LO toolbar remained on top
of the browser. When I minimized the browser, my LO document came right
back into focus without a hitch. With my Puppy Linux, an LO floating
toolbar remains on top of anything else I happen to open, including this
email that I'm typing using Sylpheed 3.4.3. But, LO always returns in
focus when I minimize another window.

2. Linux Mint 18 Sarah with Cinnamon desktop environment and LO 5.1.6.2.
I opened a document in Writer and floated a toolbar onto the document. I
then opened Mozilla Firefox. The floating LO toolbar did NOT remain on
top of the browser as it did in Puppy. When I minimized Firefox, LO
popped back up in focus without any misbehavior.

Virgil

[John_Jason_Jordan1]

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 11:38:32 -0800
John Jason Jordan <johnxj@gmx.com> dijo:

Thanks for all the comments.

First, to restate my problem: I use Xfce4 on Xubuntu 14.04. I use the
window button panel applet so that when I start a program its icon
appears in the panel. I can minimize any such window by clicking on its
icon in the panel, and restore by clicking again on the icon. When the
window is restored it automatically gets focus. This behavior works for
all windows except LO document windows when I have a floating toolbar
for that window. Note that the problem only happens for LO document
windows; if I start LO with the main LO window the main window takes
focus when restored, as it should. Of course, the main window has no
floating toolbars. I have proved beyond any doubt that having floating
toolbars causes the problem.

It was suggested that I try 'focus follows mouse,' so I tried it. This
made my problem worse, because then no window got focus when restored
until I moved the mouse over it. Here is a query from the Xfce forums
that explains why this does not work for me:

  Hi there! I'm using Xfce 4.10.1 on Ubuntu 14.04, and I'm
  having a hard time with its focus behavior.
  I want to enable "focus follows mouse" in the window manager
  settings, but when I do this, windows no longer receive focus
  when I bring them up via the tasklist. For example, when I'm
  browsing in Chrome and want to bring up Emacs, I click on Emacs
  in the tasklist on xfce's panel. Emacs's window comes to the
  front, and I expect to be able to start typing right away, but
  Chrome still has the focus. I have to move my cursor off of
  the tasklist and onto Emacs, before I can type anything.
  I want focus to follow my mouse, but also want it to
  automatically focus on a window that just raised itself to the
  top (until I move the mouse again). Is there a way to do
  this? I tried changing settings in the "Focus" tab of
  xfwm4-settings-tweaks, but it did no good. [note: 'tasklist' =
  'window buttons.']

Apparently, if you use 'focus follows mouse' there is no way to make a
restored window take focus automatically, as the above poster
discovered in the ensuing discussion.

I tried docking my floating toolbars, and that worked! If I restore a
document window with docked toolbars the window automatically gets
focus. Yay! Well, not so fast. I normally need the Formatting toolbar
(customized) and the Styles and Formatting toolbar. I can dock both of
them, but docking my Formatting toolbar to either side causes all of
the drop-downs to disappear, e.g., the style and font lists. But when
the Styles and Formatting toolbar is docked it still provides the list
of styles, so I don't know why the drop-downs on the formatting
toolbar go away - they are no wider than the style list. And I
discovered that I could remove things from the sidebar that I do not
want (Gallery, Navigator and Properties), but when I close the document
and re-open it the unwanted options reappear. Now, if I could just add
the Formatting toolbar to the sidebar and have it display the
drop-downs as well as the buttons I could live with a docked sidebar,
but alas, at this time you cannot add a toolbar to the sidebar.

Unrelated side comment: LO 5.4.3.2 added fonts that I don't want and a
whole bunch of templates. I was able to uninstall the fonts, but the
user cannot delete the templates. It also added dozens of styles that I
don't want, and they cannot be deleted either. You can hide styles, but
as soon as you close and re-open the document or even the styles and
formatting toolbar they are back.

On the LO website there was an announcement that you could get the
development version (in alpha development still - LibreOfficeDev 6.1)
and it would change the toolbars to a tabbed interface. I screwed up my
courage and installed it, and it was even worse than 5.4.3.2 - still
cannot add anything to the sidebar or permanently delete stuff that you
don't want. And the tabs can only appear at the top of the document,
just where I don't want them. Fortunately it installed itself alongside
5.4.3.2, so I can just ignore it.

So here I sit, LO is sort of working, but no focus or appearance
problems are solved, and it is doubtful that they can be solved, at
least not for some time.

[John_Jason_Jordan1]

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 11:38:32 -0800
John Jason Jordan <johnxj@gmx.com> dijo:

Thanks for all the comments.

First, to restate my problem: I use Xfce4 on Xubuntu 14.04. I use the
window button panel applet so that when I start a program its icon
appears in the panel. I can minimize any such window by clicking on its
icon in the panel, and restore by clicking again on the icon. When the
window is restored it automatically gets focus. This behavior works for
all windows except LO document windows when I have a floating toolbar
for that window. Note that the problem only happens for LO document
windows; if I start LO with the main LO window the main window takes
focus when restored, as it should. Of course, the main window has no
floating toolbars. I have proved beyond any doubt that having floating
toolbars causes the problem.

It was suggested that I try 'focus follows mouse,' so I tried it. This
made my problem worse, because then no window got focus when restored
until I moved the mouse over it. Here is a query from the Xfce forums
that explains why this does not work for me:

  Hi there! I'm using Xfce 4.10.1 on Ubuntu 14.04, and I'm
  having a hard time with its focus behavior.
  I want to enable "focus follows mouse" in the window manager
  settings, but when I do this, windows no longer receive focus
  when I bring them up via the tasklist. For example, when I'm
  browsing in Chrome and want to bring up Emacs, I click on Emacs
  in the tasklist on xfce's panel. Emacs's window comes to the
  front, and I expect to be able to start typing right away, but
  Chrome still has the focus. I have to move my cursor off of
  the tasklist and onto Emacs, before I can type anything.
  I want focus to follow my mouse, but also want it to
  automatically focus on a window that just raised itself to the
  top (until I move the mouse again). Is there a way to do
  this? I tried changing settings in the "Focus" tab of
  xfwm4-settings-tweaks, but it did no good. [note: 'tasklist' =
  'window buttons.']

Apparently, if you use 'focus follows mouse' there is no way to make a
restored window take focus automatically, as the above poster
discovered in the ensuing discussion.

I tried docking my floating toolbars, and that worked! If I restore a
document window with docked toolbars the window automatically gets
focus. Yay! Well, not so fast. I normally need the Formatting toolbar
(customized) and the Styles and Formatting toolbar. I can dock both of
them, but docking my Formatting toolbar to either side causes all of
the drop-downs to disappear, e.g., the style and font lists. But when
the Styles and Formatting toolbar is docked it still provides the list
of styles, so I don't know why the drop-downs on the formatting
toolbar go away - they are no wider than the style list. And I
discovered that I could remove things from the sidebar that I do not
want (Gallery, Navigator and Properties), but when I close the document
and re-open it the unwanted options reappear. Now, if I could just add
the Formatting toolbar to the sidebar and have it display the
drop-downs as well as the buttons I could live with a docked sidebar,
but alas, at this time you cannot add a toolbar to the sidebar.

Unrelated side comment: LO 5.4.3.2 added fonts that I don't want and a
whole bunch of templates. I was able to uninstall the fonts, but the
user cannot delete the templates. It also added dozens of styles that I
don't want, and they cannot be deleted either. You can hide styles, but
as soon as you close and re-open the document or even the styles and
formatting toolbar they are back.

On the LO website there was an announcement that you could get the
development version (in alpha development still - LibreOfficeDev 6.1)
and it would change the toolbars to a tabbed interface. I screwed up my
courage and installed it, and it was even worse than 5.4.3.2 - still
cannot add anything to the sidebar or permanently delete stuff that you
don't want. And the tabs can only appear at the top of the document,
just where I don't want them. Fortunately it installed itself alongside
5.4.3.2, so I can just ignore it.

So here I sit, LO is sort of working, but no focus or appearance
problems are solved, and it is doubtful that they can be solved, at
least not for some time.

[John_Jason_Jordan1]

On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 11:38:32 -0800
John Jason Jordan <johnxj@gmx.com> dijo:

Thanks for all the comments.

First, to restate my problem: I use Xfce4 on Xubuntu 14.04. I use the
window button panel applet so that when I start a program its icon
appears in the panel. I can minimize any such window by clicking on its
icon in the panel, and restore by clicking again on the icon. When the
window is restored it automatically gets focus. This behavior works for
all windows except LO document windows when I have a floating toolbar
for that window. Note that the problem only happens for LO document
windows; if I start LO with the main LO window the main window takes
focus when restored, as it should. Of course, the main window has no
floating toolbars. I have proved beyond any doubt that having floating
toolbars causes the problem.

It was suggested that I try 'focus follows mouse,' so I tried it. This
made my problem worse, because then no window got focus when restored
until I moved the mouse over it. Here is a query from the Xfce forums
that explains why this does not work for me:

  Hi there! I'm using Xfce 4.10.1 on Ubuntu 14.04, and I'm
  having a hard time with its focus behavior.
  I want to enable "focus follows mouse" in the window manager
  settings, but when I do this, windows no longer receive focus
  when I bring them up via the tasklist. For example, when I'm
  browsing in Chrome and want to bring up Emacs, I click on Emacs
  in the tasklist on xfce's panel. Emacs's window comes to the
  front, and I expect to be able to start typing right away, but
  Chrome still has the focus. I have to move my cursor off of
  the tasklist and onto Emacs, before I can type anything.
  I want focus to follow my mouse, but also want it to
  automatically focus on a window that just raised itself to the
  top (until I move the mouse again). Is there a way to do
  this? I tried changing settings in the "Focus" tab of
  xfwm4-settings-tweaks, but it did no good. [note: 'tasklist' =
  'window buttons.']

Apparently, if you use 'focus follows mouse' there is no way to make a
restored window take focus automatically, as the above poster
discovered in the ensuing discussion.

I tried docking my floating toolbars, and that worked! If I restore a
document window with docked toolbars the window automatically gets
focus. Yay! Well, not so fast. I normally need the Formatting toolbar
(customized) and the Styles and Formatting toolbar. I can dock both of
them, but docking my Formatting toolbar to either side causes all of
the drop-downs to disappear, e.g., the style and font lists. But when
the Styles and Formatting toolbar is docked it still provides the list
of styles, so I don't know why the drop-downs on the formatting
toolbar go away - they are no wider than the style list. And I
discovered that I could remove things from the sidebar that I do not
want (Gallery, Navigator and Properties), but when I close the document
and re-open it the unwanted options reappear. Now, if I could just add
the Formatting toolbar to the sidebar and have it display the
drop-downs as well as the buttons I could live with a docked sidebar,
but alas, at this time you cannot add a toolbar to the sidebar.

Unrelated side comment: LO 5.4.3.2 added fonts that I don't want and a
whole bunch of templates. I was able to uninstall the fonts, but the
user cannot delete the templates. It also added dozens of styles that I
don't want, and they cannot be deleted either. You can hide styles, but
as soon as you close and re-open the document or even the styles and
formatting toolbar they are back.

On the LO website there was an announcement that you could get the
development version (in alpha development still - LibreOfficeDev 6.1)
and it would change the toolbars to a tabbed interface. I screwed up my
courage and installed it, and it was even worse than 5.4.3.2 - still
cannot add anything to the sidebar or permanently delete stuff that you
don't want. And the tabs can only appear at the top of the document,
just where I don't want them. Fortunately it installed itself alongside
5.4.3.2, so I can just ignore it.

So here I sit, LO is sort of working, but no focus or appearance
problems are solved, and it is doubtful that they can be solved, at
least not for some time.