Has it all except ... #2

users
#21

I think that's a very good proposition. Using both outlook 2007 and TBird 3.1.8 with the lightning calendar extension, I can say IMHO that the latter combination is better than Outlook in some areas, particularly calendar and task sharing with multiple computers via something like icalx.com.

On a different note, it's quite interesting to see that MS seems to be employing some dubious tactics with regard to the Home & Student version of Office 2010. That version is very attractive to home users because it's pretty cheap and can be installed on three computers.
However, what MS doesn't tell you is that it contains a TRIAL version of Outlook. Of course people think "Oh goody! I can use Outlook." Then 60 days later, Poof! it needs to be purchased to continue using it, and if you have a version of Outlook prior to 2007, it can't use the pst file created by 2010!

#22

Hi Gordon,

So I think that it is perfectly sound to compare LO with MO -
certainly for the average user.

Well, our bad experience over many years is, that comparing
OpenOffice.org to Microsoft Office and claiming that OOo could
replace MSO, produced many, many wrong expectations and disappointment.

People were expecting that OOo is just the same as MSO, but for
free. People were complaining about functions that were not exactly
the same as in Word, Excel or Powerpoint. People were complaining
that they could not use their MDB-Applications. People were missing
a groupware client and yes, people were missing a tool for Gantt
charts and so on.

So, for LibreOffice we should have learned from OpenOffice.org: It´s
great software. It contains a word processor, a spreadsheet
application and a presentation application. It can handle and create
documents from Word, Excel and Powerpoint. But it´s not a
replacement for MS Office and it does not claim to be.

Stefan

#23

Then that's a lack of communication and explanation.
ANY different software requires at least an introduction to the functions that ARE different. If people expect OO or LO to be EXACT clones of MS Office then they are being very naive.
Seen the difference between office 2003 and 2007/2010?
Do people buy a new car and expect the controls to be EXACTLY the same as their old one?

#24

Hi,

People were expecting that OOo is just the same as MSO, but for
free. People were complaining about functions that were not exactly
the same as in Word, Excel or Powerpoint.

Then that's a lack of communication and explanation.

Exactly. That´s what I am saying. It´s a failure of communication.
By always comparing OpenOffice.org or LibreOffice to Microsoft
Office, people get the impression, OOo/LO are supposed to be a
replacement for MSO.

You may wanna check how often OpenOffice is mentioned as a clone of
Microsoft Office:

http://www.google.com/webhp?q=openoffice+microsoft+clone&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=7fc57fb14125b088

Cheers
Stefan

#25

Hi,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

To clear up an incorrect impression I seem to have created, I'm not a
M$ Office user, haven't ever been, except when I've been forced into
it at some particular site where I've been on contract. As a Virtual
Access user I'm... Shall we say "underwhelmed" by Outlook, of any
variety. And in fact most M$ s/w.

The purpose behind my suggestion was primarily to offer a route to
strengthen the LO package. I agree that it is silly for people to
expect LO/OO to be an exact replacement for M$O, but it seems to me
that covering the same bases that M$O does would make LO a far more
attractive, and easier, step to take for the mainstream. LO/OO/Linux
not offering that *easy* step is of course (?) why they still have so
much "scope for expansion".

I thought I had seen a statement on the LO website which amounted to
a claim to match M$O, but I can't find it now so I might've made it
up, sorry.

It's true that Outlook isn't really "integrated" into the other
packages, in fact it seems to me the LO/OO suite is far better
integrated, however that's not the point I wanted to make. It's the
fact that LO doesn't offer anything in the email category. I agree
that using something already existing would be a smart move. It only
needs to install it, if that...

I just wanna change the world so that those small communities and
passionate individuals really make a wide scale difference, just a
small step. :slight_smile:

Mark Stanton
One small step for mankind...

#26

Hello C,

Am 2011-03-14 10:50:13, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

And... according to the Virtual-Access website, it's a Windows-only
application (win32) which makes it a very poor fit since it leaves out
everyone who uses Linux and OSX.

I think for us it is NO problem, because it lakes MANY features I have
already under Debian GNU/Linux in other MUAs.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack

#27

Perhaps you missed reading this in your link:
<quote>
Microsoft Project — project management software to keep track of events
and to create network charts and Gantt charts (not bundled in any Office
suite)
</quote>

#28

You're missing the boat... and flogging the wrong horse.

Here, download it and try it yourself:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/?CTT=3

#29

...

You're missing the boat... and flogging the wrong horse.

Here, download it and try it yourself:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/?CTT=3

Office Professional 2010
Best-in-class tools to grow your business

What's included: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote, Access, and
Publisher

Let us know if Project is included in that.

I've already pointed out that Project is a separate package & costs $$
above and beyond MSO. Now, if you find OpenProj lacking
(http://openproj.org/), contribute. Otherwise just buy (or look for)
something else.

LO is already bloated enough without adding yet another Microsoft
project (pun intended). Should LO also include Visio? How about Adobe
Acrobat, or Autocad? Wait... lets also include Google's Picasa, Chrome,
and Google Docs. How about adding Skype, and QGIS?

Point being is that this is an opensource project. Code is written by
volunteers & perhaps a few paid coders. If you feel MS Project is
worthwhile, or OpenProj should be integrated, have at it, or pay someone
to do the code. If not, then *buy* MS Project et al, or try
alternatives. Try here first:

<http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&complete=0&site=webhp&source=hp&q=Microsoft+Project+%2Balternatives&btnG=Search>

Sorry forgot to add that OpenProj is listed in my applications menu as
Applications>Office>OpenProj does that mean it should included as the
office suites that I have installed (OpenOffice & LibreOffice)?

$ apt-cache policy openproj
openproj:
  Installed: 1.4-2
  Candidate: 1.4-2
  Version table:
*** 1.4-2 0
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

#30

Hi,

Evidence:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/?CTT=97

You're missing the boat... and flogging the wrong horse.

...whatever that means.

Here, download it and try it yourself:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/try/?CTT=3

Office Professional 2010
Best-in-class tools to grow your business

What's included: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote, Access, and
Publisher

Let us know if Project is included in that.

We all know, what´s included in such bundles. Nobody said, MS
Project was included.

I've already pointed out that Project is a separate package & costs $$
above and beyond MSO.

Yes. MS Project is sold seperately. But it belongs to MS Office.

Now, if you find OpenProj lacking
(http://openproj.org/), contribute. Otherwise just buy (or look for)
something else.

I have never said, that I find something lacking.

LO is already bloated enough without adding yet another Microsoft
project (pun intended). Should LO also include Visio? How about Adobe
Acrobat, or Autocad? Wait... lets also include Google's Picasa, Chrome,
and Google Docs. How about adding Skype, and QGIS?

I have never suggested to add anything to LibreOffice.

All I am saying is: Do not compare LibreOffice to MS Office, because
it creates wrong expectations. We have experienced that for years.

I don´t need to repeat myself:
http://www.mail-archive.com/users@libreoffice.org/msg03605.html

Stefan

#31

Hi,

That´s true. However, Microsoft Project *is* a part of the
Microsoft Office Family. Microsoft Office is more than Word,
Excel and Powerpoint.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office#Other_desktop_applications_.28Windows_version_only.29

Perhaps you missed reading this in your link: <quote> Microsoft
Project — project management software to keep track of events and
to create network charts and Gantt charts (not bundled in any
Office suite) </quote>

That´s exactly, what I am saying. MS Project is not bundled in any
MS Office suite, but it *is* part of MS Office. MS Office is much
more, than the applications you can buy in one bundle. And that´s
the point: Do not compare LibreOffice to MS Office, because it´s not
comparable. If you compare (at all) then compare to Word, Excel and
Powerpoint.

Stefan

#32

<sigh>

Belonging to 'the Microsoft family of products' - which is how Microsoft
*itself* characterizes it - is *not* the same thing as 'belonging to
'Microsoft Office' THE PRODUCT.