Has it all except ... #2

users
#1

Further to Fernando's post I'd like to add a thought.

I hadn't noticed the project planning thing, but it seems to me that
(aside from that?) What LO misses, compared to M$Office, is an email
facility.

I'd suggest that Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) would be a
good fit. It's a stable and very capable product, now an open source
application.

Integration would, of course, be a job, but as an extremely capable
application in its own right it might/should be a better place to
start than from scratch?

Regards
Mark Stanton
One small step for mankind...

#2

And... according to the Virtual-Access website, it's a Windows-only
application (win32) which makes it a very poor fit since it leaves out
everyone who uses Linux and OSX.

C.

#3

They're actually a BIG step for mankind.

#4

Well, since there´s already thunderbird, and it´s really really good, and
it´s alredy well integrated into major distros(Ubuntu, etc...), don´t really
feel that integrating it into LO would be so great, since it´s already
integrated into desktop enviroment.

Of course one could say that TJ is already out there, so why integrate/use
it? Well, most managers I know use M$ PJ, so theres a high demand amongst
these people. Being expensive as it is the M$ product.

Ignoring Mr. Glenn rude comments, he should take a look at some marketing
material and ask himself:
1- Why do people prefer to buy an apple notebook? Even OpenSource
developers?
2- Why GNU/Linux distros just can´t make to OEM market? Even Ubuntu?

Remenber that there are geeks/hackers/programers/developers, and theres the
regular Joe. Following Mr. Eric Raymond´s work, Cathedral and Baazar, we
should now include regular people. Most don´t even know what LO is, or
Linux, or GNU, that´s why integrators are needed, such as Ubuntu, Fedora...

Ok, that was really off-topic. Sorry.

#5

Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) - their web site states:
[quote]
Virtual Access is a mature and well established Windows mail, news and conferencing product ......
[unquote]
What if you use Linux or Mac OSX? It would be nice to find a similar "main, news, and conferencing product" that works for Windows, Linux .deb [32/64-bit], Linux .rpm [32/64-bit], and Mac OSX.

#6

W dniu 2011-03-14 14:33, Fernando Hildebrand pisze:

Remenber that there are geeks/hackers/programers/developers, and theres the
regular Joe. Following Mr. Eric Raymond´s work, Cathedral and Baazar, we
should now include regular people.

+1

#7

What struck me is not the Windows-only application, but rather the description of a programme in vague terms. It's a concept, and it may be a very good concept, but for a guy like me who is satisfied with Thunderbird and could be satisfied with Outlook, what would I gain with Virtual Access? Or even with a presentation like Google Mail?

– Conversations? I already have them in Thunderbird. Messages are organized by threads (real ones, not pseudo ones like Outlook). But what's the point in reading "conversations" and having quoted parts automatically closed if people reply on top?

– News... Except for a few geeks, I think the medium is mostly dead.

– Conferencing: Yes, that's missing from Thunderbird and Outlook. The latest version of Outlook does a bit of it, but in a fairly cumbersome way that looks like an afterthought. What is needed is a kind of white board. It should use the address book found in Thunderbird or Outlook (or System contacts), but should probably be a separate application because it requires much more overhead than email. I like Thunderbird because I can leave it open in the background. Not sure I could do that with a heavier application, especially if I want to build a few macros in Calc, use InDesign, Photoshop and, why not, a modelling program.

As far as integration between mail and LibreOffice, I don't think mail needs to be integrated into LibreOffice and I don't think it should unless integration goes way beyond what's done between Outlook and the rest of the Microsoft Office suite. Practically, I think the following integration aspects could be improved in LibreOffice without developing a new email software:
– better access of Thunderbird Address book or Outlook address book for mail merge documents (i.e. no need to export the address book first)
– better integration of Thunderbird in Exchange or Exchange-like platforms (but that's a Thunderbird problem, not a LibreOffice problem).

#8

Strongly worded, but well-aimed I think. I have an iMAC
running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and I use Thunderbird.

I would welcome conferencing but because of my choices,
I am standing out on the loose edges.

I have been let down by Windows-only decisions made by
developers and/or vendors too.

Let's go OpenSource where ever possible - all the way!

#9

You should check:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/professional/
It does *not* include project planning. So let's put that bit to bed:
http://www.microsoft.com/project/en/us/try-buy.aspx

#10

Hi,

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/professional/
It does *not* include project planning. So let's put that bit to bed:
http://www.microsoft.com/project/en/us/try-buy.aspx

That´s true. However, Microsoft Project *is* a part of the Microsoft
Office Family. Microsoft Office is more than Word, Excel and Powerpoint.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office#Other_desktop_applications_.28Windows_version_only.29

Some people, e.g. some journalists, should stop creating the
impression that OpenOffice.org, LibreOffice and others are a full
replacement for Microsoft Office.

LibreOffice is great software and there are many good reasons to
choose it. LibreOffice does not need to always compare itself to
Microsoft Office. But, if someone compares LibreOffice to Microsoft
products, then it should be compared to Word, Excel and Powerpoint
and *not* to Microsoft Office.

Stefan

LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir!

#11

Microsoft Project has never been included any version of MS Office. Its branding as part of the Office family is irrelevant if it is not included in any version of MS Office. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Project

Larry

#12

Hi Larry,

Microsoft Project has never been included any version of MS Office.
Its branding as part of the Office family is irrelevant if it is not
included in any version of MS Office. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Project

Yes, MS Project is not part of any MS Office suite. But still, sorry
you are wrong: MS Project *is* part of MS Office.

Microsoft itself defines the following applications as parts of
Microsoft Office:

    * Access
    * Excel
    * InfoPath
    * Lync
    * OneNote
    * Outlook
    * PowerPoint
    * Project
    * Publisher
    * SharePoint Workspace
    * Visio
    * Word

Evidence:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/?CTT=97

Stefan

#13

And... according to the Virtual-Access website, it's a Windows-only
application (win32) which makes it a very poor fit since it leaves out
everyone who uses Linux and OSX.

Ok, that uncovers my other agenda. I'm trying to shift away from Windoze
and VA is one of my few remaining apps there, so moving it to include
other platforms would be a big plus from my pov.

Yes, I know that's not a trivial thing, but is it any worse than building
from scratch?

Point taken about Thunderbird and the need, or not, of having a mail
facility integrated into LO. My starting point here was the LO/OO claim
to match M$. Clearly neither of them do since there is no mail package
included. This is, I suspect one of those points that is a real
stumbling block for takeup by businesses since many make extensive use of
Outlook. It's not hard (in relative terms) to produce an email app
better than Outlook, it's pretty appalling, and in fact it's
"integration" into M$Office is fairly limited as far as I can see.
However, LO/OO do not have a related email facility...

Just thought I'd make the suggestion. :slight_smile:

Regards
Mark Stanton
One small step for mankind...

#14

Hi Mark,

However, LO/OO do not have a related email facility...

Well both OOo and LibO have "Send as e-mail....", that's about as near
as it gets at the moment.

Alex

#15

Hello Mark,

[...]

I'm trying to shift away from Windoze and VA is one of my few remaining apps there, so moving it to include
other platforms would be a big plus from my pov.

[...]

Point taken about Thunderbird and the need, or not, of having a mail
facility integrated into LO. My starting point here was the LO/OO claim
to match M$. Clearly neither of them do since there is no mail package
included. This is, I suspect one of those points that is a real
stumbling block for takeup by businesses since many make extensive use of
Outlook. It's not hard (in relative terms) to produce an email app
better than Outlook, it's pretty appalling, and in fact it's
"integration" into M$Office is fairly limited as far as I can see.
However, LO/OO do not have a related email facility..

I think you would get further if you thought of it not as shifting away from Microsoft to LibreOffice, but from Microsoft to F/LOSS software.

I understand what you mean. Although I don't agree that LibreOffice claims to "match M$" (which wouldn't even make any sense), it certainly does claim to be an alternative to Microsoft's Office suite.

The problem is that MS and the open source world approach things from diametrically opposed starting points. MS, being a huge corporation and justifiably always wanting to sell more and capture new markets, thinks, "LET'S DO EVERYTHING!", and as you said yourself, doesn't do a great job at some of the component parts of 'everything'.

Meanwhile in F/LOSS land, small communities and passionate individuals think, "Let's do One thing, and do it Well, and make it Interoperable with other things".

The bottom line is that, given that there are already mature alternative F/LOSS email managers, I would put money on the assertion that LibreOffice will /Never/ include an MS-Outlookalike :slight_smile: Quote me on that!

But that does create an issue for people in your position, who are used to a simple life, where there is the One True Solution :wink: So perhaps what we /Should/ do is work on our cross-marketing. "Use the LibreOffice document creation suite along with the Thunderbird email manager", and vice versa.

-- Ryan

#16

I think the point is, (and this has been done to death on the Open Office lists as well IIR) that CHOICE is the whole thing. The versions of both OO and LO downloaded from the respective websites (NOT, I'm afraid, those versions installed with distros like Ubuntu) have very good integration with ANY EMAIL CLIENT you choose, unlike MS Office where Word will ONLY use Outlook contacts for example. (Of course Word will also use an Excel or Access spreadsheet/database as a mailmerge source, but for Contacts, it's Outlook ONLY) so IMHO the fact that OO/LO have never had an integral email client is a GOOD THING ^TM and should be kept.

#17

Not true. The email client that is installed by default in Ubuntu (and is TIGHTLY integrated into the OS) is Evolution.
You can uninstall Evolution of course and install TBird, but TBird is NOT as tightly integrated as Evolution...

#18

You don't need to export the address book. LO creates it's own updatable database from the Thunderbird addressbook inside Thunderbird...

#19

But those components (with Outlook) are what the VAST majority of users actually USE. Access is relatively uncommon as are all the rest of the modules available.
Even Office Professional Plus 2010, the top version only contains Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote, Publisher, Access, InfoPath, SharePoint Workspace and Communicator.
Of those modules, the VAST majority of people will only use a combination of Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Outlook. Access tends to be quite a specialist application, Sharepoint is only of use if you have access to a Sharepoint server, Publisher is becoming (thankfully) less and less used as you can do most things in Word instead, and Communicator seems a bit of a gimmich, as you can replicate its functions with many other pices of software.
From the Communicator website:

Office Communicator 2007 R2 provides a streamlined communications experience and offers easy connectivity for users no matter where they are or what communications method they choose. With rich presence awareness, software-powered voice capabilities, enterprise-class instant messaging (IM), multi-party audio, video and desktop sharing, and integration with Microsoft Office 2007 applications, you can connect and collaborate from any location that has Internet connectivity.

All that can be done without Office.

So I think that it is perfectly sound to compare LO with MO - certainly for the average user.

#20

Which is NOT what people buy. People buy the MS Office that is a SUITE. That's what everybody understands by the term "Microsoft Office"
Lync, Project and Visio ALL need to be bought as standalone products - they do NOT come bundled in any suite.