Help with libre

[David_M_Pelly]

Hello Libre office Foundation,

I am using Libre office on Windows XP.

Firefox is my preferred browser.

I am not a techie.

Your products are not user friendly to non techies, non geeks. Not dummy proof.

My main expertise is email and websurfing.

And I do some writing on "libre office".

When I encounter something other than standard main functions I usually get lost and confused.

Even explaining the problem that I encounter to you is difficult to explain.

But here it is:

The present problem is:

Some how, ( I think it is when I open or start up my computer,) I get a pop up that there is a Libre office update.

So I click to get the update.

I get a webpage with two green buttons:

Without
going back there to that site to see what it actually exactly says,
because I forget what they are exactly, but what ever they are, they are
confusing, especially to a non techie, non geek.

I think one button says it is a downloader or installer.

The other is something else. ( It does not say, update software.)

That appears to mean that I need to use two functions.

One to download an installer first.

Then
another one is required to download the actual update software to the
installer, so the installer can install the software in my Libre
office program.

It does not say that, but it seems to imply that.

(Your
products assume ( and take for granted) that the user knows almost as
much as the actual designers and program developers. )

Now I landed up clicking on some buttons, and there was no windows telling me what was happening.

As far as I thought at the time, I did not get the update. I was ticked off.

At
the same time: You also ask for donations. So I did donate $10. I
ran into some confusions there too, but some how it at least appeared to
go through.

It is not entirely user friendly either.

That should be cleared up and made dummy proof.

So I went back to my work on my Libre office program.

And I still see the green something in the upper right hand corner.

I click on it and it says there are updates for Libre.

So therefore I thought I did not get the updates.

So I click on it and a window pops up and says that I have the 4.0.4.2 version.

I think that is the new update version. (Maybe I am wrong.)

If
I am correct, why do you leave that green arrow up in the upper right
hand corner, telling me that there are new updates available? After I
supposedly did get the update?

Those kinds of things drive me crazy!

I just thought of another problem/ suggestion:

Why don't you include an "undo" feature on the "right click" window?

That should be common sense.

Another one:

Some
how when I was doing a lot of work on libre office, I landed up with
some solid lines running across my page, which I cannot delete or
remove?

Why?

How can I remove them?

Another suggestion:

When
I am getting to the maximum data capacity of the libre window I am
working in, you should have an indicator pop up that tells the user
that that particular widow is reaching it's maximum capacity and telling the user to begin a new document.

And
also have a clearly visible button for the user to send "suggestions
for improvements" or to report problems with libre office?

I hope I have explained my self sufficiently well, so that you understand what I mean.

And I am sure there are other problems that I do not know of or don't remember.

David Pelly

Canada

[James_Wilde]

Hello David:

The two green buttons indicate to me that you - or someone for you -
have installed LibreOffice in a language other than US English, which
means that, when you click on the update button, you are taken to the
update page for the language variant on your machine. In my case, for
example, I am led to the UK English page.

Installing LibreOffice is performed by first installing the US English
version, which is the default. Then one installs over that a
language-specific modification, which provides such things as
dictionary, grammar help, etc. The installer program is quite big and
can take a long time to download, but click on both green buttons so
that you have your language variant.

When they have both downloaded, double click on the installer program,
the larger one and when that has finished installing, then you can click
on the language-specific file. And when that one is loaded, then you
have your new version ready to use.

Hope this helps.

//James

[Tom_Davies1]

Hi
James could well be right. Another possibility is that the 2nd button
is the "Help files" which you can ignore. Either way, whether James
is right or i am right you can safely ignore the 2nd button.

The only one that matters is the 1st one. The others are only there
to help you add useful extras.

Since you clicked on the 1st button you downloaded the installer but
you haven't yet actually installed it. It will probably be in your
"Downloads" folder. Double-click on it to install it.

If you let us know which version of Windows you are using we could try
to help you a bit more but each version of Windows is so different
from each other that attempting to explain it would doubtless only
confuse you further.

There were a LOT of other points in your email but it's probably best
to stick with 1 thing at a time because otherwise it might be
confusing. Generally we ask people to write a separate fresh email
about each separate issue but i get the impression that it would be
difficult for you to keep track of the different "threads" so it's
probably better if we just handle 1 issue at a time.

Don't worry!! It is all a bit baffling at first. You will quickly
become more familiar with using a computer and installing programs.
It was new to all of us at one time or other. Many people never learn
such advanced ways and just hand it in at a shop or hand it into their
IT Department for them to install programs and such.
Good luck, welcome in and regards from
Tom

[krackedpress]

One thing though.
The poster did not need to click on the "update/upgrade" button in Writer.

I have 4.1.4 on my desktop and it told me there was an upgrade.

IF you are using LibreOffice version x.x.x and it works for you, you do not need to upgrade it, just because there is a newer version out there. I sure do not. I ran 4.0.6 till 4.1.4 was out for a month or so.

I can see why some people have trouble with this part of the "system" of notifying people there is a new version out there and download page linking, etc..

There may need to be more information for the users that are not computer savvy and need a lot of "hand holding" instructions to walk them through the download and installation process. Having that information in a "help guide" "elsewhere" may not work for some people. Having a "brief" paragraph explaining what you do with the green buttons, and which one you need to do first, would be helpful. Having the fact that different sections of the green button brings out different linked pages could confuse people. Having the Torrent and Info links there may be a mistake. Most people see a button and feel that that you can press any part of the button would give you the same link. It is not so with out button.

Since the system detects what OS you are using to view the page, maybe you could have the paragraph of instructions right after the "detected OS text" and before the green buttons. If it detects Windows, then there will be a Windows download and install instructions paragraph, Mac OSX - its version of the text. As for the various Linux detections, well Linux people just need to be told how to download and point to the install page for Linux if need anymore info. If you run Linux you are a lot more computer savvy than a lot of the Windows and Mac users I have known and dealt with over the years.

[Mark_Bourne]

David M. Pelly wrote:

Hello Libre office Foundation,

Just for information, most people on this mailing list are other users helping each other out, so you may get several replies with different ideas. Most of us aren't associated with LibreOffice in any official sense, just trying to help others out ;o)

I am using Libre office on Windows XP.

Firefox is my preferred browser.

I am not a techie.

...

The present problem is:

Some how, ( I think it is when I open or start up my computer,) I get a pop up that there is a Libre office update.

So I click to get the update.

I get a webpage with two green buttons:

Without
  going back there to that site to see what it actually exactly says,
because I forget what they are exactly, but what ever they are, they are
  confusing, especially to a non techie, non geek.

I think one button says it is a downloader or installer.

The other is something else. ( It does not say, update software.)

When I click to open the webpage with the updates, the two download options I see are labelled "Main installer" and "LibreOffice built-in help". Is that what you see? The first is the main program, the second provides the LibreOffice Help, available from the "Help" menu, which is optional.

That appears to mean that I need to use two functions.

One to download an installer first.

Then
  another one is required to download the actual update software to the
installer, so the installer can install the software in my Libre
office program.

If you want to update both the main program and the built-in help, you need to download and run both installers. But to just update the main program you only need the first. As with any downloaded software, you do need to run the installer after downloading it.

It does not say that, but it seems to imply that.

(Your
  products assume ( and take for granted) that the user knows almost as
much as the actual designers and program developers. )

Now I landed up clicking on some buttons, and there was no windows telling me what was happening.

As far as I thought at the time, I did not get the update. I was ticked off.

That sounds like the behaviour of recent versions of Firefox - rather than a separate window showing the download progress, it just shows a green arrow at the right-hand end of the toolbar, with a narrow bar just below indicating how far through the download it is. You can click that green arrow to see the list of files you've downloaded, and open/run them (you need to run the installer after downloading it).

...

So I went back to my work on my Libre office program.

And I still see the green something in the upper right hand corner.

  I click on it and it says there are updates for Libre.

So therefore I thought I did not get the updates.

Perhaps you just downloaded the installer, and didn't run it to actually install the update. Or maybe the update failed for some reason (were there any error messages when running the installer?)

So I click on it and a window pops up and says that I have the 4.0.4.2 version.

I think that is the new update version. (Maybe I am wrong.)

Does it not also tell you that the latest available version is? By coincidence, 4.0.4.2 is the same version I currently use, and when I clicking the update button in LibreOffice it says:
   LibreOffice 4.1.4 is available.

   The installed version is LibreOffice 4.0.4.2.

So there is a newer version available (which I haven't bothered to install yet).

...

I just thought of another problem/ suggestion:

Why don't you include an "undo" feature on the "right click" window?

That should be common sense.

I'm not a developer, but just a guess... looking at the options which /are/ in the right-click (context) menu, they're all things which would affect the document at the point you clicked. Undo wouldn't - it would affect wherever the last change was. Why would you need undo on the right-click menu anyway? It's under the Edit menu, or you can use the keyboard shortcut Ctrl+Z.

Another one:

Some
  how when I was doing a lot of work on libre office, I landed up with
some solid lines running across my page, which I cannot delete or
remove?

Why?

How can I remove them?

That sounds like a border applied to the paragraph either above or below the line. Assuming that's what's happened, to get rid of it:
- Right-click in the paragraph immediately above the line
- Click the "Paragraph..." option from the context menu
- Click the "Borders" tab
- Click the far-left square of the row just below the "Line arrangement" label to get rid of all the borders
- Click OK
If that didn't work, try the same again but starting with right-click on the paragraph immediately /below/ the line.

As for how it got there, I'm guessing you typed a line containing nothing but several "-" or "*" followed by Enter (some other characters may have a similar effect). This is a feature to make it quick to insert these borders when you want them. Personally I don't find it very helpful; if I type several dashes on a line it's usually because I want several dashes on a line, not a border! To disable that option to stop it happening:
- Click the "Tools" menu, the "AutoCorrect Options..."
- Click the "Options" tab
- Look down the list for "Apply border", and if there's a tick next to it click the tick to clear the box
- Click OK

Another suggestion:

When
  I am getting to the maximum data capacity of the libre window I am
working in, you should have an indicator pop up that tells the user
that that particular widow is reaching it's maximum capacity and telling the user to begin a new document.

I'm not sure about that one. I've never reaches any limit, but then I don't work on particularly large documents. What type of document is this (e.g. Writer, or Calc, etc.)? What happens when you do reach this limit? Someone else on this mailing list might have suggestions on handling large documents...

And
  also have a clearly visible button for the user to send "suggestions
for improvements" or to report problems with libre office?

It's probably worth discussing on this mailing list first, as it may be that the suggestion is already included but not quite where you expected, or that someone can help you solve the problem you're having.

If you do need to report a suggestion (enhancement) or problem (bug), under the "Help" menu is an option to "Send feedback...". That opens a web page with a few feedback options, two of which are "Create a bug report" (for reporting problems with the software, or the web site) and "File an enhancement request" (for suggesting improvements). Both options take you to a page about submitting bugs, which I can see is slightly confusing - the same system is used for keeping track of both bugs and enhancement requests. Perhaps a feature request to make that clearer is in order ;o)

I hope I have explained my self sufficiently well, so that you understand what I mean.

I hope I've understood correctly. I've left out a few bits I couldn't answer, but others may be able to help there.

And I am sure there are other problems that I do not know of or don't remember.

If you do come across any others, you know where to come - just send another email to users@global.libreoffice.org describing the problem you're having, and hopefully someone here can help.

David Pelly

Canada

Mark.

[Tom_Davies1]

Hi
Ahh, nicely done Mark! I wasn't looking forwards to trying to
address each separate issue. I can't seem to figure out how to
intersperse replies like that and rarely ever want to anyway. It's
excellent for things like this though

Also thanks for mentioning that we are almost all volunteers giving
"peer led" advice. It reminded me of the shock i got when i first
started using mailing-lists/forums for advice. Before that i had only
ever used telephone support which inevitably only gets 1 person's
opinion or tries to follow a script that i rarely fit into. I found
it interesting to get such different viewpoints and inevitably at
least 1 would be a huge help. On the one hand it was a shock to get
such rude answers so often and it sometimes felt like that 1 person
was speaking for the whole mailing-list but then someone else would
appear with a completely different attitude. On the other hand people
seem more interested in solving the problems and discussions even
sometimes run on long after the case is closed. All VERY different
from typical telephone where they have to just close the tickets fast.

Hopefully we have been able to help David solve most of his issues now
but i think there are probably at least a couple things still lurking
or that need further explanation. Also it would be good to get some
of his advice forwarded to the marketing list. Other people have
expanded on or added some points. It's best done by the "original
poster" but would be good if those other people could help support him
on that list. In the past i have tried to represent people's issues
from this list but that got me the reputation of being a troll over
there. They wanted proof the issues had been raised by other people
and when i gave proof they attacked me for posting too much
unnecessary traffic. So, it's better if the original poster, David,
raises the issues but then he might need some support from people
here.

Anyway. David, if you need us to elaborate on any advice given so far
then please let us know. It's great if you can let us know how you
get on anyway, especially since you seem to be solving the problems
now. Further questions are probably best posted as fresh new emails
to this mailing list rather than trying to "reply to all" and then
editing the subject-line. When i have a problem I tend to find it
best to ask questions first and then hit the books and google-it etc,
if i find the answer first then i post the answer to the list to let
people know it's solved. It usually takes people a few hours to
respond as we are all in different parts of the world.

Good luck and regards from
Tom

[Alan_B]

Just fyi, Mark and list, I have encountered the same error and have been
delinquent not to report it and provide a sample document. Keep telling
myself "next time I will". I think the next "next time" it is a promise I
must keep.

Why?

Because none of the techniques for removing the presumed paragraph border
may have worked. Even going so far as "Select All" then "Clear Direct
Formatting" has only partially worked.

What is "partially worked"? The line is removed. However when additional
paragraphs are entered in the document the line reappears in its original
location.

I might have posted a remark on this about the time of one of the recent
recurring conversations about reveal codes.

The only successful workarounds I've found for this are recreate from a
blank sheet a new version of the document and copy / paste as text the
contents of the old document. Or open AOO writer and paste the contents
there. For whatever reason the persistent formatting problem doesn't paste
into the AOO document.

Note: The steps Select All, Copy, Delete, Paste As Text in the LO source
document does not eliminate the persistent formatting problem. Only Paste
As Text into a new document will.

Just wanted to let all know that if the op has tried the suggested fixes
and found none to work folks shouldn't presume that the directions were not
correctly followed.

[Tom_Davies1]

Hi
Errr, i don't think people were suggesting the o.p. had done anything
wrong or not followed instructions. It's more likely that almost all
of us are remembering having been in a similar situation. As we
become wiser we take more precautions against it but i bet most of us
can remember some horrendous incident where the loss has seemed
overwhelming at the time.

One time a 'prank' made my heart race so much i thought it would
explode out of my chest and the room started spinning and i
sat/stumbled heavily. When i found it had just been a prank i didn't
have enough left in me to be angry.
Regards from
Tom

[Mark_Bourne]

Some mailing lists insist on "inline" replies (and deleting parts not relevant to the response), since it's easier to follow the flow of a conversation and which part of the original message the reply relates to. This LibreOffice list is rather more tolerant though ;o) Where there are already some replies, I tend to just follow the same format, since it's even more difficult to follow when different people are alternating between inline and top posting!

In Mozilla SeaMonkey (similar to Thunderbird), I just press enter a few times at the appropriate point, then type a reply. If you're using GMail's web interface, I notice it hides the original text when you start a reply, but there's a button with 3 dots at the bottom left of the reply box you can click to expand it. Then insert lines and add replies as needed.

Mark.

Tom Davies wrote:

[Dave_Liesse]

Two simple questions which should be available through Help, but I haven't been able to find anything.

1. Is there a way to format content within a formula? I need a cell that concatenates a properly-formatted date to some text, but I can't find any way to specify the date format.

2. In conjunction with #1, is there a function to return an entire date in external format rather than having to get the month, day, and year separately? All I've found is a way to convert a human date to an internal date.

Here's the background of what I'm trying to do, in case it's not all clear above. I'm using Calc to replicate a form produced by another system; the other system only lets me go out a certain distance in the future but my client wants it for a longer period. What I create won't be a perfect match, but it'll be close enough. For this particular job, mainly due to other formatting issues, Calc is a better choice than Writer.

The date appears several times on the form, so I naturally just want to enter it once. In two cases it appears after standard text that is centered in its cell. I build the cell formula as

     =CONCATENATE("my text",$r$2)

where R2 is the cell in which I've entered the date. The formula as written here returns the internal date, so I tried this one:

     =CONCATENATE("my text",MONTH($r$2),"/",DAY($r$2),"/",YEAR($r$2))

Unfortunately, this one gives me a single digit for the month and the day, and what I really want is MM/DD/YYYY. If I could just do this inline it would be a lot easier than having to then figure out how Calc will generate leading zeroes for me (which would also require inline formatting or a lot more embedded functions).

Any ideas how to simplify this?

Dave

[Brian_Barker]

Two simple questions which should be available through Help, but I haven't been able to find anything.

1. Is there a way to format content within a formula? I need a cell that concatenates a properly-formatted date to some text, but I can't find any way to specify the date format.

2. In conjunction with #1, is there a function to return an entire date in external format rather than having to get the month, day, and year separately? All I've found is a way to convert a human date to an internal date.

The TEXT() function is your friend.

I build the cell formula as
=CONCATENATE("my text",$r$2)

... what I really want is MM/DD/YYYY.
Any ideas how to simplify this?

="my text "&TEXT(R2;"MM/DD/YYYY")

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker

[Dave_Liesse]

That sounds like what I was looking for. I'll play with it later. Thanks much!

Dave

[James_E_Lang1]

I apologize for the redundancy if this has already been answered.

Try this:

="my text "&text($r$2,"mm/dd/yyyy")