how to select extension dictionary for spellchecking

ron.vandenbranden · August 2, 2011, 12:53pm

Hi,

I am trying to install the gb_oed dictionary from
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/1890
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/1890 . I successfully
downloaded and installed this extension, but can't find out how to select
this dictionary for spellchecking. The language list doesn't contain any OED
version of English; neither does the list of dictionaries in the
spellchecking options. Still, words like 'analyze' are flagged as incorrect,
while both 'organize' and 'organise' pass without notice, which suggests
that the OED is not used for spellchecking.

Could anyone tell me what to do?

Many thanks in advance,

Ron

cornouws · August 2, 2011, 7:00pm

Hi Ron,

ron.vandenbranden wrote (02-08-11 14:53)

I am trying to install the gb_oed dictionary from
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/1890
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/1890 . I successfully
downloaded and installed this extension, but can't find out how to select
this dictionary for spellchecking. The language list doesn't contain any OED
version of English; neither does the list of dictionaries in the
spellchecking options. Still, words like 'analyze' are flagged as incorrect,
while both 'organize' and 'organise' pass without notice, which suggests
that the OED is not used for spellchecking.

I tested with LibreOffice 3.4.2 and indeed see no special Eng OED language or such that I can choose.
Note: this version already has an English dictionary installed.

I tested too in OpenOffice.org 3.2.1, where there is no installed English dictionary.
After installing the gb_oed dictionary I can select English GB as language for spellchecking.

So It seems as in in LibreOffice the already installed and the new installed merge.

Could anyone tell me what to do?

If my assumption is correct, it could be solved by removing the pre-installed en-GB dictionary.
In my situation that could be done by removing the folder dict-en
from /home/cono/LibO342rc2/libreoffice3.4/share/extensions and restart.

But maybe it also works if you remove one file from the folder dict-en ?

HTH& regards,

ron.vandenbranden · August 4, 2011, 9:53am

Hi Cor,

Thank you very much for your help.

I tested with LibreOffice 3.4.2 and indeed see no special Eng OED language or such that I can choose.
Note: this version already has an English dictionary installed.

If my assumption is correct, it could be solved by removing the pre-installed en-GB dictionary.
In my situation that could be done by removing the folder dict-en
from /home/cono/LibO342rc2/libreoffice3.4/share/extensions and restart.

But maybe it also works if you remove one file from the folder dict-en ?

Well, I was hoping that a perhaps a new locale could be defined somewhere (maybe in some XML configuration file), but I don't have the time to search this out...

Your suggestion seems to work, however: I just replaced the en_GB.aff and en_GB.dic files in the dict-en folder with their en_GB-oed.aff and en_GB-oed.dic counterparts and this seems to work. Quick and dirty. Many thanks!

Kind regards,

Ron

cornouws · August 4, 2011, 10:11am

Hi Ron,

Ron Van den Branden wrote (04-08-11 11:52)

Well, I was hoping that a perhaps a new locale could be defined
somewhere (maybe in some XML configuration file), but I don't have the
time to search this out...

Maybe in the dictionaries.xcu ?

Your suggestion seems to work, however: I just replaced the en_GB.aff
and en_GB.dic files in the dict-en folder with their en_GB-oed.aff and
en_GB-oed.dic counterparts and this seems to work. Quick and dirty. Many
thanks!

Sometimes Q&N is helpful

Cheers,

ron.vandenbranden · August 4, 2011, 10:24am

Hi Cor,

Ron Van den Branden wrote (04-08-11 11:52)

Well, I was hoping that a perhaps a new locale could be defined

Maybe in the dictionaries.xcu ?

Actually, I tried this by adding a node for HunSpellDic_en_GB-oed:

     <node oor:name="HunSpellDic_en-OED" oor:op="fuse">
       <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>%origin%/en_GB-oed.aff %origin%/en_GB-oed.dic</value>
       </prop>
       <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
         <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
       </prop>
       <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>en-GB-OED</value>
       </prop>
     </node>

...but this had no effect: no en-GB-OED language option appears in the language bar. It seems like the values for the "Locales" property are references to definitions elsewhere, though I don't know where.

Sometimes Q&N is helpful

Anyway, renaming files is probably easier than changing different configuration files after each libreoffice update.

Kind regards,

Ron

krackedpress · August 4, 2011, 1:11pm

Could someone tell me what it the difference between the standard en_GB and the OED [Oxford English] version?

The .aff and .dic files for the OED version are from 2005. I cannot find the en_GB outside the install files so I do not know what its dates are [in the .deb install files, the .aff and .dic dates use the install file date instead of the creation dates].

In your Extension Manager, Which English dictionaries are listed. In the .deb install files for en_GB language pack, there are several version of English dictionaries to be installed; GB, US, AU, ZA. Could one of these pass the problem spellings? Could you deactivate or remove the ones you do not want to use?

Also, since the .dic files are really just a list of correct spellings, could the "flagged" words be missing? I found a dictionary word list of over 200,000 words and it did not include "dictionary" in that list. Words can be missed.

Maybe you could remove the other dictionaries from the folder where it is stored. My English dictionary files [in Ubuntu] are located at "/etc/libreoffice3.4/share/extensions/dict-en". Or you could look into the .dic word list file and see if the incorrect spelling is listed there. If so, you could always remove that word.

ron.vandenbranden · August 4, 2011, 2:19pm

Hi,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Could someone tell me what it the difference between the standard en_GB
and the OED [Oxford English] version?

Maybe I should clarify my problem: I regularly have to edit articles
for publication in a journal that conforms to Oxford Spelling
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling>), which differs on some
points from regular BE spelling, e.g.: only forms in -ize are allowed.
In order to facilitate spell checking, I installed the OED extension
from <http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/1890>. Though the
extension is successfully installed (and listed by the Extension
Manager), there's apparently no way to select this dictionary for
spellchecking with the LibreOffice (3.4.2) interface, so I have
resorted to manually overwriting an installed dictionary with the OED
version.

So, it's really a matter of being able to che
ck the spelling with a
specific English locale, rather than facing a flawed en_GB dictionary.

Kind regards,

Ron

krackedpress · August 4, 2011, 7:56pm

So you are saying that the British English use of -ise instead of -ize is a new thing that is just a new way of spelling words that have been around, a new localized [or is it localised] way?

I use American English which spells colour as color. But this is the first time I have heard of the -ise/-ize issue. Well they always say language involves. Take English in Britain about 500 years ago. The same words, but different spellings.

So should I dump en_GB in favor en_GB-oed version?
Should I not include en_CA or en_GB[oed] in my dictionary list in the USA?
I know that one .oxt dictionary add-on that includes many different English files.
Should people not use that type?

en_GB-oed .dic file has 46,113 words in its word list. The Wiki page shows "analyse" in en_GB-oed and "analyze" in en_US. Well in the oed .dic file I cannot find "analyse". Below is the word list where that word should be located, but it is not.

Tom_Davies · August 4, 2011, 9:55pm

Hi
I think 500 years ago there wasn't even an agreed standard way of spelling any
word. Shakespeare wrote his own name with many different spellings during his
life. I did think that ise had been "THE English way" for a LOT longer tho!
lol. Languages have to evolve and adapt to changing requirements.

Regards from
Tom

krackedpress · August 5, 2011, 3:50am

So, would it be better to use the Oxford English or the British English form of spelling? Here in the USA, if we do not use "proper American spelling" our papers are rejected for sloppiness. I wrote "colour" once instead of "color" and the professor was upset with me. My 20 pound [weight] dictionary had the English spelling first, so I used it. I did not know better in those days before computer were smaller than a normal car or truck.

So do we use en_GB or en_GB-oed as the default one for "Queen and Country"? I think use Americans sometimes spell our words differently so we can be different after we broke away from British rule.

LibreOffice's Tools>Language Settings>Languages>Localized ---> has 14 different listing for English. More languages than there are versions I can find to install or are in the install .deb files.

http://libreoffice-na.us/English/add-on-dictionaries-large-list/US_English_April-19-2011-dic-file.oxt
is the link to one that has the most up-to-date .dic file I could find. I found the file and updated the original .oxt file with it. Maybe someone could do that for en_GB-oed to my it better and more up-to-date than from a 2005 .dic file [which the one linked to before from OOo's site has].

Actually 500 years ago, most people could not read. So knowing how to spell was not important.

Actually look at the number of different France/French language versions - 4 of them - plus a few localized ones that no longer are called French since they are so different.

20+ Spanish dictionaries are in the list I have at: http://libreoffice-na.us/English/extensions.html#dict . All localized to a country which uses it.

planas · August 5, 2011, 4:23am

Hi

So, would it be better to use the Oxford English or the British English
form of spelling? Here in the USA, if we do not use "proper American
spelling" our papers are rejected for sloppiness. I wrote "colour" once
instead of "color" and the professor was upset with me. My 20 pound
[weight] dictionary had the English spelling first, so I used it. I did
not know better in those days before computer were smaller than a normal
car or truck.

So do we use en_GB or en_GB-oed as the default one for "Queen and
Country"? I think use Americans sometimes spell our words differently
so we can be different after we broke away from British rule.

LibreOffice's Tools>Language Settings>Languages>Localized ---> has 14
different listing for English. More languages than there are versions I
can find to install or are in the install .deb files.

http://libreoffice-na.us/English/add-on-dictionaries-large-list/US_English_April-19-2011-dic-file.oxt
is the link to one that has the most up-to-date .dic file I could find.
I found the file and updated the original .oxt file with it. Maybe
someone could do that for en_GB-oed to my it better and more up-to-date
than from a 2005 .dic file [which the one linked to before from OOo's
site has].

Actually 500 years ago, most people could not read. So knowing how to
spell was not important.

Actually look at the number of different France/French language versions
- 4 of them - plus a few localized ones that no longer are called French
since they are so different.

20+ Spanish dictionaries are in the list I have at:
http://libreoffice-na.us/English/extensions.html#dict . All localized
to a country which uses it.

> Hi
> I think 500 years ago there wasn't even an agreed standard way of spelling any
> word. Shakespeare wrote his own name with many different spellings during his
> life. I did think that ise had been "THE English way" for a LOT longer tho!
> lol. Languages have to evolve and adapt to changing requirements.
>
> Regards from
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: webmaster for Kracked Press Productions<webmaster@krackedpress.com>
> To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> Sent: Thu, 4 August, 2011 20:55:36
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: how to select extension dictionary for
> spellchecking
>
>
> So you are saying that the British English use of -ise instead of -ize is a new
> thing that is just a new way of spelling words that have been around, a new
> localized [or is it localised] way?
>
> I use American English which spells colour as color. But this is the first time
> I have heard of the -ise/-ize issue. Well they always say language involves.
> Take English in Britain about 500 years ago. The same words, but different
> spellings.
>
> So should I dump en_GB in favor en_GB-oed version?
> Should I not include en_CA or en_GB[oed] in my dictionary list in the USA?
> I know that one .oxt dictionary add-on that includes many different English
> files.
> Should people not use that type?
>
> en_GB-oed .dic file has 46,113 words in its word list. The Wiki page shows
> "analyse" in en_GB-oed and "analyze" in en_US. Well in the oed .dic file I
> cannot find "analyse". Below is the word list where that word should be
> located, but it is not.
> --------------------
> ample/PT
> amplification/M
> anarchy/3Ww1SM
> anastigmatic
> Andaman/M
> aneroid
> Anglican/MS
> --------------------
>
> I found the word
> analyse in the en_GB .dic file dated 2010-02-15
> analyze in the en_CA .dic file dated 2010-02-15
> but neither spelling in the en_GB-eod version dated 2005-06-13.
> So the "eod" version has not kept up with what the Wiki page link shows for
> Oxford English.
>
> Of course, you could always edit a word list and keep only the spellings that
> Oxford English excepts. As I understand, the complete Oxford dictionary
> contains 20 volumes/books to hold all the words and definitions. I have a word
> list of over 200,000 words, but would you want to have a word processor spell
> checker dictionary with all those words, or only the ones you really want to
> use? The more words in the list, the more chances that your misspelled words
> are correct spelling for a different unwanted word. There is not good way
> around it, except edit your word list to remove the words that are not spelled
> correctly for your localized version of the language.
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts.
>>
>>> Could someone tell me what it the difference between the standard en_GB
>>> and the OED [Oxford English] version?
>>>
>> Maybe I should clarify my problem: I regularly have to edit articles
>> for publication in a journal that conforms to Oxford Spelling
>> (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling>), which differs on some
>> points from regular BE spelling, e.g.: only forms in -ize are allowed.
>> In order to facilitate spell checking, I installed the OED extension
>> from<http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/1890>. Though the
>> extension is successfully installed (and listed by the Extension
>> Manager), there's apparently no way to select this dictionary for
>> spellchecking with the LibreOffice (3.4.2) interface, so I have
>> resorted to manually overwriting an installed dictionary with the OED
>> version.
>>
>> So, it's really a matter of being able to che
>> ck the spelling with a
>> specific English locale, rather than facing a flawed en_GB dictionary.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/how-to-select-extension-dictionary-for-spellchecking-tp3218870p3225508.html
>>
>> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.org
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I think Noah Webster more or less standardized US spelling. I do not
think he was trying anything anti-English but trying make the spelling
somewhat more systematic. But English spelling is wacky anyway.

krackedpress · August 5, 2011, 12:33pm

Well Webster had to have some protocols to go by to change British or Oxford English spelling to American English spelling. Why did "colour" loose the "u" to become "color" if the original spelling was the standard English spelling? There seems to be too many words that are spelled differently in the USA, but are spelled the same in England, Canada, and most of the former English colonies.

Modern English has its roots in several different ancient languages used by the Anglo and other large tribal peoples, merged into one initial proto-English. Then over the century other languages, like French, Spanish, and German, gave English many of its words for English to make part of what we now call Modern English. As I understand it, in 1800-1900 there were maybe 100,000 to 200,000 words in the English language [including the rarely used ones], while the last time I heard [sometime between 2000 and 2008] English has over 500,000 words. The Oxford Dictionary is now 20 volumes. Plus every year Webster's Dictionary "announces" the new words that are "officially" added to the English language and placed into their dictionary. SO, the English language is growing and changing all the time. There even are words that have been removed from "Modern English" since they are no longer used or the spelling has changed so much. They are still in the unabridge versions, but not in the "smaller" versions anymore.

Tom_Davies · August 5, 2011, 12:49pm

Hi
+1
Ok, so i object to having to type out the whole of "though" and shorten it to
"tho". Oddly i like the extra unnecessary "u" in colour and things tho
(oops).

Shakespeare was only about 400 years ago btw. 21st C - 17th C = 400. My maths
was wonky yday.
regards from
Tom

planas · August 5, 2011, 7:54pm

Hi

> Hi
>
>
>> So, would it be better to use the Oxford English or the British English
>> form of spelling? Here in the USA, if we do not use "proper American
>> spelling" our papers are rejected for sloppiness. I wrote "colour" once
>> instead of "color" and the professor was upset with me. My 20 pound
>> [weight] dictionary had the English spelling first, so I used it. I did
>> not know better in those days before computer were smaller than a normal
>> car or truck.
>>
>> So do we use en_GB or en_GB-oed as the default one for "Queen and
>> Country"? I think use Americans sometimes spell our words differently
>> so we can be different after we broke away from British rule.
>>
>> LibreOffice's Tools>Language Settings>Languages>Localized ---> has 14
>> different listing for English. More languages than there are versions I
>> can find to install or are in the install .deb files.
>>
>> http://libreoffice-na.us/English/add-on-dictionaries-large-list/US_English_April-19-2011-dic-file.oxt
>> is the link to one that has the most up-to-date .dic file I could find.
>> I found the file and updated the original .oxt file with it. Maybe
>> someone could do that for en_GB-oed to my it better and more up-to-date
>> than from a 2005 .dic file [which the one linked to before from OOo's
>> site has].
>>
>> Actually 500 years ago, most people could not read. So knowing how to
>> spell was not important.
>>
>> Actually look at the number of different France/French language versions
>> - 4 of them - plus a few localized ones that no longer are called French
>> since they are so different.
>>
>> 20+ Spanish dictionaries are in the list I have at:
>> http://libreoffice-na.us/English/extensions.html#dict . All localized
>> to a country which uses it.
>>
>>
>>> Hi
>>> I think 500 years ago there wasn't even an agreed standard way of spelling any
>>> word. Shakespeare wrote his own name with many different spellings during his
>>> life. I did think that ise had been "THE English way" for a LOT longer tho!
>>> lol. Languages have to evolve and adapt to changing requirements.
>>>
>>> Regards from
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: webmaster for Kracked Press Productions<webmaster@krackedpress.com>
>>> To: users@global.libreoffice.org
>>> Sent: Thu, 4 August, 2011 20:55:36
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: how to select extension dictionary for
>>> spellchecking
>>>
>>>
>>> So you are saying that the British English use of -ise instead of -ize is a new
>>> thing that is just a new way of spelling words that have been around, a new
>>> localized [or is it localised] way?
>>>
>>> I use American English which spells colour as color. But this is the first time
>>> I have heard of the -ise/-ize issue. Well they always say language involves.
>>> Take English in Britain about 500 years ago. The same words, but different
>>> spellings.
>>>
>>> So should I dump en_GB in favor en_GB-oed version?
>>> Should I not include en_CA or en_GB[oed] in my dictionary list in the USA?
>>> I know that one .oxt dictionary add-on that includes many different English
>>> files.
>>> Should people not use that type?
>>>
>>> en_GB-oed .dic file has 46,113 words in its word list. The Wiki page shows
>>> "analyse" in en_GB-oed and "analyze" in en_US. Well in the oed .dic file I
>>> cannot find "analyse". Below is the word list where that word should be
>>> located, but it is not.
>>> --------------------
>>> ample/PT
>>> amplification/M
>>> anarchy/3Ww1SM
>>> anastigmatic
>>> Andaman/M
>>> aneroid
>>> Anglican/MS
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>> I found the word
>>> analyse in the en_GB .dic file dated 2010-02-15
>>> analyze in the en_CA .dic file dated 2010-02-15
>>> but neither spelling in the en_GB-eod version dated 2005-06-13.
>>> So the "eod" version has not kept up with what the Wiki page link shows for
>>> Oxford English.
>>>
>>> Of course, you could always edit a word list and keep only the spellings that
>>> Oxford English excepts. As I understand, the complete Oxford dictionary
>>> contains 20 volumes/books to hold all the words and definitions. I have a word
>>> list of over 200,000 words, but would you want to have a word processor spell
>>> checker dictionary with all those words, or only the ones you really want to
>>> use? The more words in the list, the more chances that your misspelled words
>>> are correct spelling for a different unwanted word. There is not good way
>>> around it, except edit your word list to remove the words that are not spelled
>>> correctly for your localized version of the language.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>> Could someone tell me what it the difference between the standard en_GB
>>>>> and the OED [Oxford English] version?
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe I should clarify my problem: I regularly have to edit articles
>>>> for publication in a journal that conforms to Oxford Spelling
>>>> (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling>), which differs on some
>>>> points from regular BE spelling, e.g.: only forms in -ize are allowed.
>>>> In order to facilitate spell checking, I installed the OED extension
>>>> from<http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/1890>. Though the
>>>> extension is successfully installed (and listed by the Extension
>>>> Manager), there's apparently no way to select this dictionary for
>>>> spellchecking with the LibreOffice (3.4.2) interface, so I have
>>>> resorted to manually overwriting an installed dictionary with the OED
>>>> version.
>>>>
>>>> So, it's really a matter of being able to che
>>>> ck the spelling with a
>>>> specific English locale, rather than facing a flawed en_GB dictionary.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/how-to-select-extension-dictionary-for-spellchecking-tp3218870p3225508.html
>>>>
>>>> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.org
>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>>
> I think Noah Webster more or less standardized US spelling. I do not
> think he was trying anything anti-English but trying make the spelling
> somewhat more systematic. But English spelling is wacky anyway.
>
Well Webster had to have some protocols to go by to change British or
Oxford English spelling to American English spelling. Why did "colour"
loose the "u" to become "color" if the original spelling was the
standard English spelling? There seems to be too many words that are
spelled differently in the USA, but are spelled the same in England,
Canada, and most of the former English colonies.

Modern English has its roots in several different ancient languages used
by the Anglo and other large tribal peoples, merged into one initial
proto-English. Then over the century other languages, like French,
Spanish, and German, gave English many of its words for English to make
part of what we now call Modern English. As I understand it, in
1800-1900 there were maybe 100,000 to 200,000 words in the English
language [including the rarely used ones], while the last time I heard
[sometime between 2000 and 2008] English has over 500,000 words. The
Oxford Dictionary is now 20 volumes. Plus every year Webster's
Dictionary "announces" the new words that are "officially" added to the
English language and placed into their dictionary. SO, the English
language is growing and changing all the time. There even are words
that have been removed from "Modern English" since they are no longer
used or the spelling has changed so much. They are still in the
unabridge versions, but not in the "smaller" versions anymore.

I have heard that English has the largest total vocabulary of any
language in the world because English speakers will borrow a useful word
for the locals if it does a better job than the common English words.
Wadi and arroyo are a couple of examples. Also, I believe English lacks
an organization that decrees what can and cannot be in English.