Installing Win7

[Tom_Davies]

Hi
I'm just installing Win7 to a machine that already had WinXp working sort-of-fine-ish.  One of the early screens said the process would involve rebooting itself several times and i should ignore it and let it get on with it.

Then it gave me a few choices which i had to click on.  I think i had to fill in something too.  (ie so i couldn't just ignore it).  When it rebooted the cd/dvd stayed in the drive.  Should i press "Any" key to get back to the installer or not.  I chose to do so.  Opps, wrong.  Stupid user aren't i?  I should have known that it kept the Cd/Dvd in the drive in order to not use it.  Ooops, now it has told me to let it reboot again and ignore it.  Next screen needs me to fill in something.  I begin to see a pattern forming here.  It asks for a user-name and decides i probably want to call the machine the same thing.  The next key seemed a bit sticky.  Suddenly i am passed the passwords screen without having set a password.  No "Back" button.

It's taken half an hour which is not bad.  It's about the same as Ubuntu on the same machine.

First thing to do is to hunt down and change the password, or even delete the non-Admin local user.  2nd is to make the machine part of the domain so all the normal desktop users can use the logins stored on the MS Exchange Server.  The installer did just ask if the machine is part of a company network but i'm not sure why because i have to hunt down all that set-up myself.  It's just put me on a new workgroup called "WORKGROUP" because they have to shout.

When i get to type in a domain it's already guessed i must want the domain to have the same name as my laptop.  Guess i should go around and change all the other machines to that instead of using the existing one.

If i want a different domain name i have to guess it or already know it.  There is no browsing to search for it.  i can't be nearly right and let it give me the rest.  I have to be spot on.  It asks for a user&pass for the domain and then gives a pop-up with a warning triangle to tell me i guessed right.  It asks if i want to use the right guess or try again.  Now it asks if i want to add a domain user to the local machine.  'Obviously' i made a mistake so i cancel and find the mistake i made was clicking the button "Network ID" instead of the button "Change".  Now it does guess the correct domain.  Was that because i typed it in the other box or did it really find out?  Still no browse button so if the guess was wrong i would have to know.  Oh, the "Ok" button is greyed out.  So although the text besides the "Ok" button said i could change the domain this way it doesn't use that way to confirm.  Going back to the "Network ID" button that
looked dodgy before i have to type the user&pass and domain name twice in 2 different boxes and domain can only be in capital letters despite the domain name appearing everywhere else in a mix of upper and lower-case.  If i do add a "domain user" at this point then allegedly they have full access to all the files, folders and programs anywhere on the network.  I guess this is the new improved security.  Now i am back at the "System Properties" box and "Apply" is greyed out so is it going to forget what i filled in like it would for changing the Virtual Memory?

Now starts my endless cycle of updates&reboots.  Oh, and i have to install tons of programs rather than being given nice safe 3rd party ones that i could use straight-away or swap out for my preferred ones.  These updates&reboots don't make any effort to update drivers, codecs, libraries or other programs.  It's just about the core OS.  Later i will go to MS.com and find several critical security updates that weren't included in the auto-updates

When setting the Virtual Memory it told me there were 2 other hard-drives in this laptop.  Of course using a separate physical hard-drive might be quite a boost to performance if Virtual Memory ever gets used and reduces wear&tear.  Saves the read/write head bouncing between so many different areas of the hard-drive.  Just in time i remember it's talking about separate partitions on the same physical hard-drive.  They just call them hard-drives because they think users are too dumb to understand the difference and need to be saved from all this complexity.

I get really hacked off when people tell me this is easier than installing any Gnu&Linux distro.  It's as though they had never actually tried either to compare&contrast.

Regards from

Tom

[Luuk]

It's taken half an hour which is not bad. It's about the same as Ubuntu on the same machine.

The worst comparison i've ever read.
Ubuntu is more and more a shitty copy of Windoooz

First thing to do is to hunt down and change the password, or even delete the non-Admin local user.

Normally no 'non-Admin local user' is created.
I think only 1 user is created, and this user is an 'Admin'.

2nd is to make the machine part of the domain so all the normal desktop users can use the logins stored on the MS Exchange Server. The installer did just ask if the machine is part of a company network but i'm not sure why because i have to hunt down all that set-up myself. It's just put me on a new workgroup called "WORKGROUP" because they have to shout.

hmm, if you have an Exchange server running, than you should know all these thing.........

[doug11]

First thing to do is to hunt down and change the password, or even delete the non-Admin local user.

Normally no 'non-Admin local user' is created.
I think only 1 user is created, and this user is an 'Admin'.

A normal Windows setup would have the user (USER, in MS-ese) with
non-admin permissions, and you'd have to open admin permissions.
I don't remember how, but if you're going to get into the nuts
and bolts, you'd better obtain a book. Once you figure out how
to get to an admin terminal, you can put an icon on the desktop to
get to it again when you need it.
If it's setup right from the install, I seem to remember you can
have it start with the option of user or admin, with same or different
passwords. I don't know if you can do that once it's installed, but one
of the books may tell you.

The main problem is, to find out what you can do, and how to do it, from
a command line, since most of the literature--particularly that from
MS--tries to do everything from a GUI.
For programs or modifications that require Admin perms in the desktop
environment, normally the system will tell you to enter the password,
so you need to get that straightened out.
I have several Win 7 books, but the most useful, generally, I think, is
a QUE publication called "Windows 7 in Depth." $49.99. Maybe it's on
sale, now that Win 8 is out?
I also have Wiley's publication, "Windows 7 Bible," $39.95.
And I think you can download a list of commands for the terminal
interface.

Frankly, Windows is a PITA, but there are some things you can't do
otherwise.

--doug

2nd is to make the machine part of the domain so all the normal desktop users can use the logins stored on the MS Exchange Server.

The installer did just ask if the machine is part of a company network
but i'm not sure why because i have to hunt down all that set-up myself.

It's just put me on a new workgroup called "WORKGROUP" because they have
to shout.

[Robert_Holtzman]

And the purpose of posting this to a libreofice list is.............?

[Ken_Springer]

Hi, Tom,

I was going to give you a hard time about some of the stuff you wrote, but to quote it was going to take more editing time than I have.

I get really hacked off when people tell me this is easier than installing any Gnu&Linux distro.

> It's as though they had never actually tried either to compare&contrast.

You sound like the MS Office user who switches to LO and then complains it doesn't work the same. LOL

It's all in what you are familiar with. I have no problems dealing with Windows installs, I'm used to them. But you should have seen me with this Mac when I first got it. I was expecting it to work like Windows. Once I decided to learn how the Mac worked rather than assume it should/would work like Windows, I didn't have any problems.

But, as of now, I can't do crap with any Linux except run a Live CD. So instead of complaining that it doesn't work like Windows or OS X, I'm going to go learn how it works first.

[Tom_Davies]

Hi
Sorry for my off-topic rant yday.

Job is done ...
.. except for getting a list of programs they want installed, installing them and getting them updated.  I might not bother with hunting for drivers and codecs as they don't seem to care if their machine gets infected or not and i just know they are going to manage to get some infection regardless of how carefully i set this up so i might as well not bother.

Wrt Users and permissions. 
I only need 1 Admin user and no normal users.  The Admin user's 1 task is to change the settings to get the machine into the company's network domain.  After that anyone can use any of the logins that they would use on any other machine in the office.  After that i don't even need that 1 local Admin account really although it's handy to have one for when things go seriously badly wrong.  The domain has several normal users and a couple of Admin users already set-up.

Next job is to try to convince normal users to avoid saving anything on the laptop's internal hard-drive and just save everything to the network file-shares where it's
a)  almost impossible to crack into without direct physical access and a lot of time&tools, unless you have the password
b)  gets back-ups done fairly often automatically
c) can be reached by any machine in the building as long as you have the right password
Different groups of users have limited access to different folders but all can access the common-room type area.

Regards from
Tom

[Tom_Davies]

Hi
Ken, don't worry i can criticise various Gnu&Linux for their unclear instructions too.  There are a lot i haven't tried so i can't comment on them.

Ubuntu is the one i am most familiar with and the easiest one for me to pick holes in.  However it is more familiar with dealing with noob normal users trying to install it so there are a whole heap of things it does a LOT better than the Win7.

Win7 tends to assume that you are a trained IT professional that is intimately familiar with MS systems.  For example, not ejecting the Cd and leaving it ambiguous.  Ubuntu and all the other Gnu&Linuxes i have tried eject the Cd during shut-down and halt saying "please press enter once you have removed the Cd".  That leaves no question marks about whether it expects you to leave the Cd in the machine.  While Ubuntu and the rest each have their little niggling gaps in the way they handle odd little bits&bobs the Win7 installer has gaping chasms.  if machines came without any OS and you had to start out by installing one from scratch yourself then Windows would be so rare that you would almost never see or hear of it.

The best system i ever tried (as far as installing goes and perhaps more too) was Wolvix which managed to explain in simple but not patronising terms, as though we were both Klingon Warriors dealing with all the Pah'tahks togther.  It's immensely difficult to get that balance right but Wolven and Oithona did an awesome job.  Annoyingly, Wolven's wife gave birth and the OS dropped off his list of priorities.

Regards from
Tom

[Ken_Springer]

ambiguous.

Now Tom, didn't the install program tell you the system would restart several times, and you were supposed to leave everything alone? <G>

[Tom_Davies]

Hi
I know, i know.  But just after telling me not to touch anything it asked me to fill a bunch of stuff in.  Should i have ignored the filling in bit too?
Regards from 
Tom

[Luuk]

....

*I don't remember how*, but if you're going to get into the nuts
and bolts, you'd better obtain a book. *Once you figure out how*

..

I seem to remember you can.........
......... same or different
passwords. I don't know ........

Cant you remember, or do you not know.....?

The main problem is, to find out what you can do, and how to do it, from

Finally a good word!

But i dont need a Windows book to find out 'how-to-do' things in Windows.

[Tom_Davies]

Hi
I think "can't be bothered to think about it" is probably more to the point.  It's not rocket science it's just one of the most boring and frustrating parts of sys admin role.  We know there is better stuff out there.  Many of us got into computers to explore exciting new worlds not to do boring spade-work.

Anyway, i've done it and moved on and it's the weekend and Eid Al Fitr so there is a lot to celebrate

Happy Eid all!  and for those of you that aren't celebrating that please enjoy a great weekend
Regards from
Tom