invoicing systems using Calc (or something else)

I'm looking for really simple invoicing system. I've seen a few out there that work on top of Calc but they are typically oriented towards product based invoices versus service invoices (what I need).

I'm looking for a system that will do all the appropriate accounting for invoices, tracking what's paid and not paid. I'm not interested in a full-fledged bookkeeping system. I've been through three in the past two years and finally my accountant told me I was never to touch a bookkeeping system or even do my own bookkeeping because it's gonna cost me more for him to untangle my mistakes that it will be for him to do it for me (yes, I'm that bad at it).

That said, I still need to build a produce invoices and track when they were paid. to be explicit, I'm hoping for something that lets me stay in the libreoffice ecosystem.

Suggestions?

Thanks
--- eric

An what makes you think that you are able to develop your own
bookkeeping system? That's what you would need to do in LibreOffice
since none of the components is made for this particular purpose nor any
other particular purpose.

I'm looking for a system that will do all the appropriate accounting

for invoices, tracking what's paid and not paid.

That pretty much mandates that one have a bookkeeping system.

That said, I still need to build a produce invoices and track when

they were paid.

Since your accountant told you to never touch a book keeping system
again, that gets a little tricky.

I'm hoping for something that lets me stay in the libreoffice ecosystem.

To track income, a possible solution is a write document, that is
changed according to function.
I've attached an example to this email.

File >Properties >Custom Properties is where to go to change most of

the information in the document.

* Replace "Invoice" with "Pro-Forma Invoice", "Quote", "Receipt",
"Estimate", "Statement" or other appropriate

* The item, and the price are changed in properties.
# Use your standard price, for the pricing.
# Change description in the pricing block, when you change the item.
# Change quantity in the pricing block, for the specific client;

There are three lines for discounts:
* Two are for deducting specific dollar amounts;
* One is for deducting a specific percentage;

Then, if the correct tax rate is in the description field, it
automatically calculates the appropriate tax, if the correct amount is
listed in the description field. (The accompanying template is wrong.
Tax is not 97.5%, but 0.975%. ).
"Tracking number" is for S&H, if needed.

Then you have a line for any deposit / down payment that was made/were
made. Put this amount is the item column.
The next line is how much was previously paid. This excludes any
deposit/down payment that was made. This also excludes any payments made
today. (There is no easy way to ensure that no errors are inadvertently
made here. For some reason, that cell doesn't automatically add numbers
together.)

The next line is how much was paid today. Put this item in the item
column. Under quantity put how it was made. cash, cheque, credit card,
debit card, something else.

The final line is how much is still owing.

When everything is correct
* Save the document with the client's name, form-type, and date of the
original request, or invoice number;
* Export the document as a PDF, then email the PDF to your client, and
to your bookkeeping email account. (The bookkeeping email account is an
email account whose sole function is to store PDFs until you, your
bookkeeper, or your accountant can go through them, and do the correct
accounting procedure with them.

Some caveats about using this:
* The forms have to be correctly labelled as to what they are;
* You have to use the same document, for everything from initial
estimate to final receipt;
* Previous payments have to be double checked, to ensure that the
numbers are correct;

To track outgo, the "simple solution" is:
* Cash is completely prohibited;
* Use a debit card for all purchases --- this includes rent, utilities,
taxes, and everything else under the sun that your business uses;
* Request both a paper and digital receipt for all purchases;
* In a spreadsheet, One
@ One page is for outgo:
# use one row per purchase:
# Columns are for: record #, date, time, place, card present/not
present, vendor, vendor address, item purchased, cost of purchase;
* lease payments are included in this sheet;
* Payments on outstanding debt is included on this sheet;
* Either you or your accountant or your book keeper needs to reconcile
that spreadsheet with your bank withdrawals at least once a week;

@ One page is for income;
# use one row per payment:
# Columns are for: invoice #, date, time, client name, client address,
initial amount of purchase, amount paid today, amount still owing, how
payment was made;
* Either you or your accountant or your book keeper needs to reconcile
that spreadsheet with your bank deposits at least once a week;

@ One page is for leases, and debt.
# use one row per payment;
# Columns are for: record #, date, time, place, card present/not
present, vendor, vendor address, item purchased, initial balance, amount
paid, current amount owed;
* This sheet duplicates payments made in the outgo sheet.

Sorry, i don't have a template that i can share, of the spreadsheet.

Hi :slight_smile:
If you are looking at something within the eco-system then;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software
Each column has a mystical, mysterious title and clicking on the
double-triangles re-sorts the table.

The 1st section is Free Open Source Software, like us. If you are using a
Gnu&Linux such as openSuSE, Redhat, Mageia, Ubuntu or almost any other then
you can just open your "Package Manager" and use it's search feature. On
Windows it's not so easy but even on Gnu&Linux it'd be a good idea to look
into a few and maybe ask a couple of questions in their forums/mailing-list
to see how helpful they are. Then maybe pick a couple to have a quick stab
at.

The only names i recognised were GnuCash and HomeBank;
http://www.gnucash.org/
http://homebank.free.fr/
but i have not tried either. HomeBank says it's for "personal finance" so
it probably doesn't even have invoicing.

I thought this list looked interesting;
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/best-free-accounting-software-8-programs-we-recommend-1136684
There is even one that says it only does invoicing and that looks fairly
simple.

Err, i used to work in an Accountancy Practice as a clerk so it was my job
to do really basic bookkeeping for quite a lot of clients. That sort of
approach might well turn out to be well worth the cost and would probably
be a lot lower than than whatever your accountant charges per hour for your
end-of-year accounts etc. It might be worth asking her/him to give you an
estimate of how much they think they would charge, just to get an idea.

Also while "Sage Line 50" costs quite a bit they used to have a much
smaller program for about £50 (couple of decades ago tho!!) and that used
to make it all so much easier for us! It's not in the same eco-system as
LibreOffice but it's very widely used. If you do decide it's worth trying
something like that then it's worth asking your accountant what he/she
would prefer you used for invoicing.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_accounting_software

I really hate pointing people at Wikipedia, and not only because it has
repeatedly stated that it does not concern itself about objective
accuracy nor with factual data, but only concerns itself with that which
the editors wish was true, despite all the evidence that proves their
wishes to be completely discongruent with both the scientific evidence,
and objective reality.

The only names i recognised were GnuCash and HomeBank;

One of the big issues with FLOSS accounting packages, is that they are
either nothing more than digital check-book reconciliation programs, or
else require somebody who is both a CPA, and knowledgeable programmer to
install, and maintain.

Despite the plethora of accounting packages for the FLOSS world, there
is nothing that even comes close to matching QuickBooks in either the
ease of setting up the program, or the ease with which non-accountants
can do their own books _accurately_.

When LedgerSMB forked from SQL-Ledger, I was hoping one of the
improvements would be to provide out-of-the-box packages that would have
the capabilities and functionality of Peachtree Accounting, with the
premade books for:
* SOHO;
* Self Employed Professional;
* Small Manufacturing;
* Non-profit;
* Retail store;
Unfortunately, that was not to be the case.

I've also given on Apache OpenForBusiness, and the other FLOSS projects
from providing similar OOTB packages for use as accounting solutions.

to do really basic bookkeeping for quite a lot of clients. That sort of
approach might well turn out to be well worth the cost and would probably
be a lot lower than than whatever your accountant charges per hour for your

In the United States, most accountants simply tell their clients to use
QuickBooks, or else provide their data in a format that QuickBooks can
read/write/edit. It isn't that QuickBooks is great about GAAP
conformity, (it violates more core GAAP requirements than anybody really
wants to acknowledge) but rather it makes it easier to put data in the
right place, than in the wrong place. It also does some things that make
it fairly easy for accountants to see where data was erroneously placed,
and make the appropriate corrections.
(It will not pick up wilful fraud, and deceptive practices, but it picks
up the accidental stuff that non-accountants do.)

It might be worth asking her/him to give you an estimate of how much they think they would charge, just to get an idea.

+1

Sage 50

FWIW, that started out as Peachtree professional, rebranded with Sage
livery. It is Sage's low end competitor to QuickBooks.

I'm looking for a system that will do all the appropriate accounting

for invoices, tracking what's paid and not paid.

That pretty much mandates that one have a bookkeeping system.

Maybe. I can do it with Calc by hand. Each row contains the customer name, the line item, amount, and rate at the end of the row, I put in payment and date. If I have more than one payment because the invoice was split then I just record outward

In subsequent tabs, I manually make a copy of the invoice template, fill it in, making sure it matches the data in the entry line, print to PDF and email it.

It is a royal pain in the butt but I only do two maybe three invoices a month so it's tolerable. However, since the pattern is predictable and repeatable, it should be possible to generate an invoice from one of my entry lines. I think at this point, I'm about ready to give up using Calc in word for anything more than filling in a form and doing all the calculations by hand on paper and pencil.

The only names i recognised were GnuCash and HomeBank;
http://www.gnucash.org/

I spent approximately 40 hours trying to get basic books to balance. I'm talking only 100 entries and I could never make it work.I thought this list looked interesting;

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/best-free-accounting-software-8-programs-we-recommend-1136684
There is even one that says it only does invoicing and that looks fairly simple.

It's also Windows only and it will probably do what I need but to have a whole separate machine for Windows is just making me crazy.

Err, i used to work in an Accountancy Practice as a clerk so it was my job to do really basic bookkeeping for quite a lot of clients. That sort of approach might well turn out to be well worth the cost and would probably be a lot lower than than whatever your accountant charges per hour for your end-of-year accounts etc. It might be worth asking her/him to give you an estimate of how much they think they would charge, just to get an idea.

he's built a package for me with corporate, personal, bookkeeping and phone support for something like $300 a month. It's been worth already because he's an enrolled agent and because of crap from my divorce, he kept the IRS off my back. I've done some shopping around and anyone who has any sort of a reputation for quality work is in that same range.

As I've said elsewhere, a full-scale bookkeeping system is overcomplicated solution. It's some simple sums, filling in a form from other cells in a different tab on a spreadsheet but, this may be just one of those cases where paper and pencil is a better solution because all computers do is complicate things. it's sad when five minutes with paper and pencil and a fax machine performs better than current software and the Internet.

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
wrt paper and pencil!! But to be fair i haven't tried any of the ones i
gave a link to nor any listed on the Wikipedia page.

Wrt Wikipedia's bias i think it's fair to say that every source of
information has it's own bias. Wikipedia is one of the few that is not
entirely owned by corporate interests or specific individuals. As with any
source of information it is only the starting point of further research =
so it's quite handy that their pages have links to external sources.

It sounds like Quicken might be worth looking into, if you are in the US,
but as you point out it is over-kill for what you need.

In the accountancy practice where i worked we always completely ignored any
spreadsheets done by the client. I used to have a quick look just in case
it happened to be ok but generally it was far faster to start from scratch
and use my own system. Spreadsheets have tooo many ways of getting things
just a little muddled and then build on those errors. They can be a handy
way of quickly keeping a rough track though i guess.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hello,
I have been "doing the books" for a brassband for the past 15 years.
For more than 10 years I have used GnuCash as a base for the band's
accounting system. I don't know what your requirements are exactly,
but GnuCash is quite an elaborate double-entry system with reports
and graphics, etc. Data are stored either in xml-format or using a
relational database (MySQL is definitely supported).
Regards
Heinrich

-------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------
something else)

Hi :slight_smile:
Yeh i think the words "elaborate" and "double entry" and "accounting
system" all indicate that what you do is at a much higher level. Like the
spreadsheets i was grumbling about but you are using a proper system that
gets good results.

I think it takes a bit of a struggle to set it up at first but i've heard
that GnuCash is one of the easier and more helpful packages for all that.
The advantage with Sage or Quickbooks or Quicken is that the accountancy
firm is more likely to already be familiar with how to set them up and can
use them directly. Sometimes when people say "best" they mean most
familiar.

I tried to get my current company to use GnuCash or at least give it a fair
go but instead they poured days and weeks into setting up a spreadsheet
system that is now locking them into sticking with MS Office 2010. they
can't upgrade with re-writing macros!

Anyway it is great to hear that GnuCash is giving really good results
fairly easily once you set it up and that it's good for that sort of sized
organisation.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

I'm looking for really simple invoicing system. I've seen a few out
there that work on top of Calc but they are typically oriented towards
product based invoices versus service invoices (what I need).

A while ago I came up with a similar question here. Not happy with my software I've tried several options and finally decided to be stubborn. So I made a construction in Calc and after three months working with it I can say that is was worth the effort and I am very happy with it. I am in full control now, instead of pushing buttons on a black box, I can import raw csv files from the bank and after a good talk with and help people not very familiar with Calc I would strongly advice not to do it this way.

One of the reasons to do this is that my invoice system is based on tables in Calc. In fact it started with Star Office and is now over 13 years old. It is not a nice polished system, back then I had a database in mind so it contains a lot of sheets for relations, a sheet for customers, customer - project, project - invoice, invoice - sold items, ...

Flexibility is a main argument. For example, over the years I began exporting, inside and outside EU, to private persons and companies, all having different VAT laws. It is extended to serve well and I am even not aware of a system that is able to do this task better and is Freedom software.

Concluding, I am in full control, it took a lot of work but that is paying back, it is not polished, using it is hard to explain to colleagues, you always have to be careful not to mess things up, it is very easy to export data, search data and sort data. It takes discipline to work with it.

Perhaps most important... Over the years I've learned one thing, smart entrepreneurs are experts in bookkeeping. If not, work on it. Last resort: find a bookkeeper for a long term relation.

I'm not interested in a
full-fledged bookkeeping system. I've been through three in the past two
years and finally my accountant told me I was never to touch a
bookkeeping system or even do my own bookkeeping because it's gonna cost
me more for him to untangle my mistakes that it will be for him to do it
for me (yes, I'm that bad at it).

There is so much on the net, everybody can learn bookkeeping and working with your own data gives you the best impression of how your organization is doing.

Hi :slight_smile:
That makes a lot of sense. Actually turned me around a bit.

Please take my previous advice "with a big pinch of salt" or even ignore
completely. The important thing is to get something set-up that does work
for you.

Getting your own bookkeeper, perhaps for an hour or 2 a week or something,
might be better than getting the accountancy firm to do your bookkeeping
for you. It might be a lot cheaper and be better for more relaxed chats
about the whole thing.

They might need several more hours in the first few weeks so that they can
develop or configure a system for you. I guess that a lot of bookkeepers
might be really glad of a chance to set things up in a way that they
prefer, as we all have our own preferences on some things, rather than
trying to figure out someone else's system.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: