Libre Office localization for multinational work environment

users
#1

Dear Friends,

I am using libre office on my both computers (win7x64_Eng and Pardus2011x64_Eng - a linux distro).
(LibreOffice 3.3.0 - OOO330m19 (Build:5) - tag libreoffice-3.3.0.3)

I am working in an office where there are people from several countries and where the company operates on many countries.
So the problem is localization.
Which format to use?
In windows and MS office it was pretty easy to make custom settings for the date, currency and number appearances.
In both operating systems when it comes to libre office, it is not referring to system settings and not letting me to adjust the settings for a custom set of definitions.

To make it more practical: For instance we are using the decimal character and thousand separator like universal simple calculators 123'456.00 where the time format is 24 hours referring to Zulu.

Is there any suggestion to make those kind of settings possible for libre office also?

Thanks in advance.

Cevad OZTUG

#2

Hello Cevad,

Cevad OZTUG wrote:

Dear Friends,

I am using libre office on my both computers (win7x64_Eng and
Pardus2011x64_Eng - a linux distro).
(LibreOffice 3.3.0 - OOO330m19 (Build:5) - tag libreoffice-3.3.0.3)

I am working in an office where there are people from several
countries and where the company operates on many countries.
So the problem is localization.
Which format to use?

I guess my experience is not as 'multinational', but I currently work a
lot in two languages (English and Italian).
Not using Windows here but Ubuntu installed in English with the Italian
locale.
For Libreoffice I installed both the language packs for English and
Italian and often work on bi-lingual documents, not it is really easy to
switch language settings (e.g for spell check) in the same document.
In windows and MS office it was pretty easy to make custom settings for
the date, currency and number appearances.

In both operating systems when it comes to libre office, it is not
referring to system settings and not letting me to adjust the settings
for a custom set of definitions.

To make it more practical: For instance we are using the decimal
character and thousand separator like universal simple calculators
123'456.00 where the time format is 24 hours referring to Zulu.

As for locale in general I imagine you're aware of the setting in the
language preferences, but I don't much about number formats.

Ciao,
Lorenzo

#3

Dear Lorenzo,
Thank you for your reply. I realized that I should make the problem more clear.

1. As an international office we have our own custom settings in between us with remote offices as well.
2. In our reports, presentations and documents, we would like to show our numbers as 123'456'789.00 .none of the predefined localization settings are showing this style (universal calculator appearance).
3. Windows and pardus are giving us the opportunity to make necessary definitions. But libre office is not referring to system definitions and also not letting us to define or use custom characters-symbols for thousand separator and decimal point.

So we are looking for a solution not to go with pre-defined localization settings but to be able to define our set of characters.

Thanks again,

#4

A clarification please:

Are you talking about changing the "default" English setup, then installing the language and character sets needed for the localized needs? Is there going to be different version of the install files that would default directly to Spanish, French, etc., language instructions that are currently seen in English? [if it is seen in other languages, I did not know this since you have to download the other languages]

I can see where there could be a problem with non-English speaking users if the install process requires English until the user installs the local language files for the menus. The problem could be in offering 40+ different install versions, one for each major local language. This "problem" will need to be resolved, but then the developers will need to create all those 40+ versions every time there is an update or upgrade.

#5

Ok.
Let me try to clarify.
Please forget all the stories about my company and about different nationalities.

The question is this:

How you make libre office in any operating system to show numbers as:
123'456'789.00

Thanks again.

#6

mån 2011-03-28 klockan 18:05 +0300 skrev Cevad OZTUG:

Ok.
Let me try to clarify.
Please forget all the stories about my company and about different
nationalities.

The question is this:

How you make libre office in any operating system to show numbers as:
123'456'789.00

Thanks again.

>>
>> Dear Lorenzo,
>> Thank you for your reply. I realized that I should make the problem
>> more clear.
>>
>> 1. As an international office we have our own custom settings in
>> between us with remote offices as well.
>> 2. In our reports, presentations and documents, we would like to show
>> our numbers as 123'456'789.00 .none of the predefined localization
>> settings are showing this style (universal calculator appearance).
>> 3. Windows and pardus are giving us the opportunity to make necessary
>> definitions. But libre office is not referring to system definitions
>> and also not letting us to define or use custom characters-symbols for
>> thousand separator and decimal point.
>>
>> So we are looking for a solution not to go with pre-defined
>> localization settings but to be able to define our set of characters.
>>
> A clarification please:
>
> Are you talking about changing the "default" English setup, then
> installing the language and character sets needed for the localized
> needs? Is there going to be different version of the install files that
> would default directly to Spanish, French, etc., language instructions
> that are currently seen in English? [if it is seen in other languages, I
> did not know this since you have to download the other languages]
>
> I can see where there could be a problem with non-English speaking users
> if the install process requires English until the user installs the
> local language files for the menus. The problem could be in offering 40+
> different install versions, one for each major local language. This
> "problem" will need to be resolved, but then the developers will need to
> create all those 40+ versions every time there is an update or upgrade.
>
> --
>
> The one thing I do tell people locally, is if you speak one than
> English, you can install LibreOffice and write you non-English documents
> and use the 140+ language dictionaries to check your spelling. Or you
> can install the language packs so you have the options to have the menus
> in that other language. It does "seem" that you can switch back and
> forth between languages for your menus though. There are several people
> in my building where English is their second or third language. So this
> multi-language option for LibreOffice seems to me a big advantage over
> MS Office. You do not have to "buy" or download a whole new version of
> the package if you want to have a different language.
>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>>> Hello Cevad,
>>>
>>> Cevad OZTUG wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>
>>>> I am using libre office on my both computers (win7x64_Eng and
>>>> Pardus2011x64_Eng - a linux distro).
>>>> (LibreOffice 3.3.0 - OOO330m19 (Build:5) - tag libreoffice-3.3.0.3)
>>>>
>>>> I am working in an office where there are people from several
>>>> countries and where the company operates on many countries.
>>>> So the problem is localization.
>>>> Which format to use?
>>> I guess my experience is not as 'multinational', but I currently work a
>>> lot in two languages (English and Italian).
>>> Not using Windows here but Ubuntu installed in English with the Italian
>>> locale.
>>> For Libreoffice I installed both the language packs for English and
>>> Italian and often work on bi-lingual documents, not it is really easy to
>>> switch language settings (e.g for spell check) in the same document.
>>> In windows and MS office it was pretty easy to make custom settings for
>>> the date, currency and number appearances.
>>>> In both operating systems when it comes to libre office, it is not
>>>> referring to system settings and not letting me to adjust the settings
>>>> for a custom set of definitions.
>>>>
>>>> To make it more practical: For instance we are using the decimal
>>>> character and thousand separator like universal simple calculators
>>>> 123'456.00 where the time format is 24 hours referring to Zulu.
>>> As for locale in general I imagine you're aware of the setting in the
>>> language preferences, but I don't much about number formats.
>>>
>>> Ciao,
>>> Lorenzo
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there any suggestion to make those kind of settings possible for
>>>> libre office also?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Cevad OZTUG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Select the appropriate language (the language that makes use of that
number format you are talking about) in your character settings in your
styles and/or in your document.

#7

Ok.
Let me try to clarify.
Please forget all the stories about my company and about different nationalities.

The question is this:

How you make libre office in any operating system to show numbers as:
123'456'789.00

Thanks again.

Thank you.

There are so many things like number format like "1,000.05" vs "1'000.05" or time and date formats, it is hard to understand what is stated as times.

Hopefully you get your issues fixed.

#8

:slight_smile:

> Select the appropriate language (the language that makes use of that
> number format you are talking about) in your character settings in your
> styles and/or in your document.

Could you please advice which one is this?

This is the problem. LO is restricted by pre-definitions only. My question is; is there any way to alter those predefined sets.

regards,

#9

mån 2011-03-28 klockan 18:25 +0300 skrev Cevad OZTUG:

:slight_smile:

> Select the appropriate language (the language that makes use of that
> number format you are talking about) in your character settings in your
> styles and/or in your document.

Could you please advice which one is this?

Which language that has your number format or what?

In Calc, select all cells → Format cells… → Numbers → Language
Select the language option thing and use your arrow keys (↑ and ↓) to
view them one by one. Look at the example field (the one in the middle).

The following languages seems to use the ”1'234.12” format:
French (Schweiz)
German (Liechtenstein)
German (Schweiz)
Italian (Schweiz)

Seems to be a Schweiz/Liechtenstein thing…

#10

I've seen issues like this concerning language and other
cultural standards come up before. I find TDF's support
of languages other than English pretty good.

So let me cut to to chase. I have a friend who is
involved in writing multi-lang. program interfaces,
including German and he says that, in most cases,
all you have to do is provide a dictionary file that
suits your purpose and have the application reference
it.

The app will make the accommodation for you.

And let's get down to the language of business:
for now, at least, it's still mostly English.

C'est la vie!

#11

Thanks to you all dear friends for your valuable comments.

The problem I stated was independent from the operating system (windows or Linux behaviors were just the same) and I am using English version of LO 3.2.

I was looking a windows - MS Office way of handling localization and customization of predefined special symbols for thousand separator or decimal point symbol or so.

My conclusions after all discussions and contributions:

1. LO is not referring to system settings (-such as decimal point character or thousand separator character). (P.S. To Developers: Difficult to understand, why not?)

2. There is no way to customize those symbols/characters. (P.S. to Developers: More difficult to understand, why not?)

3. The only way is to choose from pre-defined locale settings which suits best. (P.S. Default US-EN suits me best (-not perfect) for all other aspects and I will continue to use that set)

4. There is only one possibility to alter the predefined characters and it is providing a new dictionary file. (P.S. I have no idea how to do it? Where and how should I start to study the issue? )

Thanks again.
Cevad.

#12

hello cevad,

We had a similar problem when we were installing LibreOffice 3.3 on linux.
We work in English, Dutch, German and French. We found that the following
method worked for us.

1. We installed a base system using the English GB option. This means that
the menus and default dictionaries, local settings and so forth are in
British English. (We are Europeans. You can choose any available language as
the base system.)
So we downloaded and installed:
1.the basic US tar.gz file
2.the en-GB language pack tar.gz file
3. the en-GB help pack tar.gz file
as instructed by the 'Installing LibreOffice 3.3 on Linux' documentation.

Then to install the other three languages dictionaries and local settings
for numbers, dates and so forth we installed ONLY the 'dict' binary from
within each language pack.
We followed the method described below. (We use SuSE and Debian
distributions here. For the Debian and its derivative distributions
substitute 'deb' for 'rpm' and 'DEB' for 'RPM' in the examples below.)

1. Download ONLY the langpacks for the languages and local settings you
require.
2. Open a terminal as root.
3. Copy the downloaded language pack(s) to your choice of installation
directory.
For example to install the German dictionaries and local settings:
cd /opt
cp /home/kd/Downloads/LibO_3.3.2_Linux_x86-64_langpack-rpm_de.tar.gz .
4. Unpack the language pack(s)
tar -xvf LibO_3.3.2_Linux_x86-64_langpack-rpm_de.tar.gz .
5. Change to the directory LibO...
cd LibO_3.3.2rc2_Linux_x86-64_langpack-rpm_de/
6. Then cd to either the RPM subdirectory or in the case of a debian
distribution to the DEB subdirectory.
cd RPM
7. List the files within and look for the 'dict' binary in the list. Then
'rpm' or 'dpkg' this file only.
rpm -Uvh libreoffice3-dict-de-DE-3.3.2-202.x86_64.rpm <in the case of
the SuSE distribution.>
8. Repeat the steps 1 to 8 for any other languages and settings you wish to
install.

Launch LibreOffice and open the 'Tools'|'Options...">'Language

'Languages'.

You should now be able to set the Local setting to your prefered location.
For example: Germany (Germany)
You should also now be able to set your language setting for the documents
to you choice of language.

#13

Hi there,

I find a gold mine with your very useful advices. I really appreciate.
I will try and use this methodology for an other "problem" which was bothering us for a while now.

My original claim was a little bit different than just using multi-localizations.

Having several nationalities in one office is something. And thanks to IT guys that everybody is very flexible when they are by their own in front of their computer screens.But what happens when there are 10 people in a meeting room and there is a presentation on the big screen, or printed reports?
3/2/2001 refers to which date (2nd March or 3rd February)?
123,456 means what (123 thousand 456 or 123456/1000)?
To avoid those kind of confusions we (as a company ground rule) determined a set of convention or mutual understanding. We didn't choose any national presentation (This is why EN-US is not fitting perfectly to our needs.) But we defined them by our selves.
We were inspired by international standard simple calculators. Or military style date and time presentations. Long story in short. Why can not we define our special characters freely for LibO? MS Windows and Pardus (-a very nice Linux distro) are letting us to do so. MS Office is also letting us to do so. And LibO - Castle of Freedom- is not.
In my office I am advertising LibO.But with out making this simple adjustment my life is very difficult. Either I should manage to change the whole office convention or I should suffer by seeing that the whole office is using MS Office for such a minor issue.

Sorry for taking that much time of yours.
I love LibO, I love Linux, I love the freedom concept. So I want to implement this freedom in my daily life instead of theoretical declarations. This is why my expectations are great from LibO.

Best wishes,
Cevad

#14

Thanks for the instructions below. I wondered what the "best" way to do it for Linux [Ubuntu 10.10].
Most people I deal with for multi languages use Windows, and that is easy[er].

#15

For the interim, why not try as Johnny suggested?

Tools>Options>Language Settings|Languages|Local setting: German
(Liechtenstein)|Default Currency: set to your choice. Then in Calc:
Format>Cells>Number: -1'234.12|OK
Your example number then shows as 123'456'789.00

#16

Thanks again to Johnny, as you stated it solves partially the problem.
Unfortunately our set of definitions are not fitting German (Leichtenstein) perfectly. So in a single document we have to define several cells with different local formats. (i.e. To see Eng. names of the days, or usd symbol for the currency and etc.)
But for sure Johnny's suggestion is very useful and works for particular needs.
Thanks again.

*Cevad OZTUG*

#17

Just a feed back.
I have followed the suggestions to have multiple localization definitions in
a single calc sheet for necessary cells.
Although it was very time consuming to define those things (numbers
different, dates different, etc.) the result was perfect for the appearance
on screen or on printed copies.
But a side effect discovered later.
When we send the document from our office to outside world. They are
constrained with our definitions and presentation style. They can not see
the formats in the way they want / used to. They have to change the cells
localization to be able to correct the appearance.
As a result we will not use this multi localizations method to be able to be
compatible with other parties.

May be this time I can state it more specifically:
What we need is to modify screen/print appearance of US-EN locale settings.
This requires customization of decimal symbols, dates, percentages, thousand
seperater character, or etc. Like global locale settings of operating
systems.
Or much more easily:
LibO should look to the system global settings for all those definitions.
We need a working button "Use Global locale settings" in LibO.

Thanks for your all support and help.
Cevad

#18

...

Or much more easily:
LibO should look to the system global settings for all those definitions.
We need a working button "Use Global locale settings" in LibO.

It already does. From Help:

<quote>
Locale setting
Specifies the locale setting of the country setting. This influences
settings for numbering, currency and units of measure.
The "Default" entry selects the locale setting that is selected for the
operating system.
A change in this field is immediately applicable. However, some formats
that were formatted by default change only if the document is newly loaded.
</quote>
...

Perhaps you should readjust your system 'locale' settings.

#19

In Tools | Options | Language Settings | Languages, what is your Locale set
to?

I'm sure your feeling a bit frustrated with everyone's responses. After
reading through the thread, I was frustrated and it's not my problem!
However, the real problem is determining if your LO's Locale is set to a
particular setting and then figuring out how to modify that locale. So, my
question to others, does LO have it's own set of locale definitions that it
accesses and is that where the definition of how Cevad's numbers are
displayed is really located, or does LO actually access the installed
systems modified locale settings for such information?

Let's define the question more precisely since the easy way out isn't
working. Obviously, a predefined locale setting isn't sufficient here.
And, I think LO may not be accessing the actual locale information that
Cevad has already defined for his Linux box. So, based on Cevad's comment
that LO wasn't accessing his system's default definition of how to display
numbers and so on, doesn't it seem that LO isn't accessing that set of
locale information but a separately defined set of locale information that
hasn't been modified?

The real question: Where are the files that comprise the locale settings
for LO? Default or otherwise? After that is answering, the next question
becomes: How are those files modified to match his current Pardus systems
definitions?

Best wishes,
Dow