libreoffice-3-3-0 branch - new deadline for translations

timar · January 12, 2011, 3:29pm

Hi,

libreoffice-3-3-0 branch was cut yesterday. I've just learned on irc
that it will be tagged for LibreOffice 3.3 release on Monday. Commit
rules to that branch are very strict. Only very-very safe fixes and
translation updates are allowed.

You can update your translations in Pootle by Sunday evening. I'll take
updated translations from there and do a final check-in for LibreOffice
3.3 release. These are the lo-build-*.po files.

I'm sorry but I cannot take excessive amounts of fixes for the main
localize.sdf anymore (1-2 typos are still OK). At least not before the
release of LibreOffice 3.3. It's too risky and I don't have the time to
check everything carefully. (FYI, there were 2 errors in hr and te
translations that broke the build on Windows, causing a big trouble.)

There will be a 3.3.1 soon where corrections will be possible, and for
the next major release I hope we'll get rid of sdf format (at least in
the repo) and everyone can use Pootle.

Thanks,
Andras

Mikel_Pascual · January 12, 2011, 3:42pm

In order to prevent compile errors, I guess we should review the "review"
section in pootle (for example:
http://pootle.documentfoundation.org/eu/libo33/review.html)

Am I right?

Regards

sophi · January 12, 2011, 4:03pm

Hi Mikel,

In order to prevent compile errors, I guess we should review the "review"
section in pootle (for example:
http://pootle.documentfoundation.org/eu/libo33/review.html)

Am I right?

Yes, even if it gives sometime false positive, the positive will be corrected or/and run gsicheck if you can. gsicheck is more exact.

Kind regards
Sophie

timar · January 12, 2011, 4:08pm

2011.01.12. 16:42 keltezéssel, Mikel Pascual írta:

In order to prevent compile errors, I guess we should review the "review"
section in pootle (for example:
http://pootle.documentfoundation.org/eu/libo33/review.html)

Am I right?

Yes, you right but Pootle gives many false positives, too. If you
carefully check your files, I thank you, because it means less work for
me. I posted error logs in this list a few times. Check for tags, that's
the most common source of errors.

Thanks,
Andras

Olivier_Hallot · January 13, 2011, 6:57pm

Hi Andras
Shall we have another cut from pootle before 3.3? Some of the fixes I sent this week are not yet reflected in RC3. Also I think we still need an RC4, especially in the installation for Windows (sigh)

timar · January 13, 2011, 7:08pm

Hi Olivier,

I'll take all files from pootle which are newer than the date of last
commit (last Sunday if I remember correctly) - so your fixes will be
in.

As for the Windows installer, I don't know... is it still in English
for you, too? I reported it today in devs list and on irc. Tor
Lillqvist replied and he is trying to debug it. That's all I could do.

Best regards,
Andras

leif.lodahl · January 13, 2011, 7:08pm

Will there be another load from Ooo Pootle?

Please see http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/msg01363.html

We have quite a lot of new changes since the last load.

Cheers,
Leif Lodahl

Den 12-01-2011 16:29, Andras Timar skrev:

timar · January 13, 2011, 7:15pm

Hi Leif,

I think it's a misunderstanding. There has never been a load from OOo
Pootle. Translation came from OOo source code and from individual
translators via mail or via TDF Pootle.

Please send me a link to your latest translation (or send me in
private mail) and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks,
Andras

filmsi · January 13, 2011, 7:22pm

Andras,

As for the Windows installer, I don't know... is it still in English
for you, too? I reported it today in devs list and on irc. Tor
Lillqvist replied and he is trying to debug it. That's all I could do.

just to make it clear on my side - what I reported.

I have English Windows, but use all software, if avalilable, in Slovenian. I
installed LO 3.3RC3 today (having LO3.3RC2 installed with English and
Slovenian UI + Slovenian Help, with Slovenian as active GUI language) and
the process of installation ran in English. I guess the installer just asks
the system language and does not offer the user to use some other language.
A multi-language installer should do just that. I believe Windows do not
exist in all the languages that OOo/LO exist or will exist, so that
selection should be possible as manual in the first stage of installation,
IMHO.

Lp, m.

timar · January 13, 2011, 7:45pm

Hi Martin,

I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)

Having a language selection window that you suggest is a good idea
IMHO (not for 3.3 though). I think you should file a bug and give the
specification there.

For 3.3 I would be happy, if the basic functionality worked, i.e. on
localized Windows installer used the same language.

Best regards,
Andras

filmsi · January 13, 2011, 9:06pm

Andras,

I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)

Yes, I run Slovenian regional settings, of course. In that case it should
also work but it did not. But - are regional settings the right way to go? A
Frenchwoman living in Moscow will have Russian regional settings (because
she lives there and it is more practical for her that way), but she wants
French LO installed...

Having a language selection window that you suggest is a good idea
IMHO (not for 3.3 though). I think you should file a bug and give the
specification there.

Well, here we disagree. The l10n teams (more or less knowing the
habits/culture and representing non-English users) were wondering about the
changed concept of online help on Windows and this multi-culti installer.
This was a too big change to introduce with LO33, as I already wrote, it was
not communicated with L10N teams etc. But my skepticism did not stop it. So
it happened, but I (and probably other L10N-ers) expected that it will be
done properly - so that builds can still be fully localized. Now we are
stuck in the middle and we hear: there is no time to fix this for 3.3. Well,
there was no time to introduce/design/implement/test this huge change for
3.3 in the first place. You can't rush a production of a car and say, we
cannot fix this new security belt, hey, its not a biggie, don't panic...

There are two possibilities:
- the changes for Windows for online help are rolled back and there will be
an English build with international langpacks (or international full
builds);
- the implementation goes forward until it is bug-free: installer allows UI
language selection *and* online help from a localized LO UI is localized,
i.e. Hungarian LO UI with F1 opens Hungarian contextual help in the LO
help-wiki (I cannot test this with my install, RC2 with Slovenian helppack
was reinstalled with RC3, which still uses the RC2 help, although I did not
install localized help for RC3 - how do you uninstall help? This might be a
bug as well - many things are not polished with these helppacks);

And there is even a third possibility:
- LO33 is published as English only and/as a technology preview for other
languages. This way we can test if this online help decision was right or
not and the community can vote.

Thanks,
m.

timar · January 13, 2011, 9:32pm

Andras,

I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)

Yes, I run Slovenian regional settings, of course. In that case it should
also work but it did not. But - are regional settings the right way to go? A
Frenchwoman living in Moscow will have Russian regional settings (because
she lives there and it is more practical for her that way), but she wants
French LO installed...

It's a rare corner case – of course ideally we should cover it.

Having a language selection window that you suggest is a good idea
IMHO (not for 3.3 though). I think you should file a bug and give the
specification there.

Well, here we disagree. The l10n teams (more or less knowing the
habits/culture and representing non-English users) were wondering about the
changed concept of online help on Windows and this multi-culti installer.
This was a too big change to introduce with LO33, as I already wrote, it was
not communicated with L10N teams etc. But my skepticism did not stop it. So
it happened, but I (and probably other L10N-ers) expected that it will be
done properly - so that builds can still be fully localized. Now we are
stuck in the middle and we hear: there is no time to fix this for 3.3. Well,
there was no time to introduce/design/implement/test this huge change for
3.3 in the first place. You can't rush a production of a car and say, we
cannot fix this new security belt, hey, its not a biggie, don't panic...

There are two possibilities:
- the changes for Windows for online help are rolled back and there will be
an English build with international langpacks (or international full
builds);
- the implementation goes forward until it is bug-free: installer allows UI
language selection *and* online help from a localized LO UI is localized,
i.e. Hungarian LO UI with F1 opens Hungarian contextual help in the LO
help-wiki (I cannot test this with my install, RC2 with Slovenian helppack
was reinstalled with RC3, which still uses the RC2 help, although I did not
install localized help for RC3 - how do you uninstall help? This might be a
bug as well - many things are not polished with these helppacks);

I can remove help packs with Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
Center. IMHO releasing LibreOffice with known bugs is better than
postpone the release to eternity. It will never be bug-free. After 3.3
3.3.1 will come, with the opportunity to fix more bugs. At first sight
I also did not like multi language installer and help packs. Now I
feel relaxed about them. Let's see how the users will welcome
LibreOffice.

Andras

filmsi · January 13, 2011, 10:05pm

Hi, Andras,

I can remove help packs with Add/Remove Programs applet in Control
Center. IMHO releasing LibreOffice with known bugs is better than
postpone the release to eternity. It will never be bug-free. After 3.3
3.3.1 will come, with the opportunity to fix more bugs. At first sight
I also did not like multi language installer and help packs. Now I
feel relaxed about them. Let's see how the users will welcome
LibreOffice.

I just tried that and could uninstall RC2 Slovenian helppack. So I ran RC3
with Slovenian GUI and pressed F1/Help button in the dialogs and got -
English wiki-help!

Another, even more serious no-go for the L10N teams, I guess. I and probably
all non-English users of LO expect the wiki-help would open in the language
of the UI.

What is a localized office suite with no localized help? (Many users will
not install the helppack not knowing that it is required, even if it is
clearly stated on the downloadpage.) Why have localization teams devoted
their time to localizing help? I really do not get this.

Do you have any info - will localized online help be enabled in final 3.3 or
does the foundation want to release such a product with no localized online
help?

Can other L10N confirm this behavior on their language UI's? Is this
acceptable for other L10N teams and language communities?

Forgive me being so stubborn.

Lp, m.

timar · January 17, 2011, 12:28am

Hi,

I updated all translations tonight. Last two were br – last updated on
2011-01-16 23:02 (Alan) from Pootle, and et from Mihkel. Many thanks for
your work. See the updated statistics online:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Translation_for_3_3#Translation_statistics

There were a few errors.
1. gsicheck errors (I reported many times)
2. readme html markup errors (only a few)
3. wrong line wrapping at the new license dialog (too long lines make
the dialog ugly).

I fixed all errors I found. Rimas, can you please update Pootle again. I
don't want to fix these once more...

Best regards,
Andras

thb · January 17, 2011, 9:38am

Martin Srebotnjak wrote:

Do you have any info - will localized online help be enabled in final 3.3 or
does the foundation want to release such a product with no localized online
help?

Hi Martin,

sure, the plan is definitely to have localized online help for 3.3.
No worries.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

Rimas_Kudelis · January 17, 2011, 2:58pm

Hello all,

the files on Pootle have been updated from git.

Rimas

2011.01.17 02:28, Andras Timar rašė:

Rimas_Kudelis · January 17, 2011, 3:33pm

Hi,

2011.01.13 23:06, Martin Srebotnjak rašė:

I understand. I don't know how LibreOffice install was supposed to
work. One possibility is that it checks for OS language. The other is
to check for regional settings. You run your English Windows with
Slovenian regional settings, do you? (I can't test all cases, because
I have only Hungarian Windows XP.)

Yes, I run Slovenian regional settings, of course. In that case it should
also work but it did not.

Confirming: on Windows 7 with Lithuanian regional settings and Lithuanian UI, the installer runs in English.

But - are regional settings the right way to go? A
Frenchwoman living in Moscow will have Russian regional settings (because
she lives there and it is more practical for her that way), but she wants
French LO installed...

UI language is part of the regional settings I think. Being a frenchwoman in Moscow, I would certainly want that particular part of regional settings (UI language) to be French.

However, I agree that not all languages are or will be available for user to choose from for their Windows UI, so a language selection page does make sense (with a best-guess default preselected).

There are two possibilities:
- the changes for Windows for online help are rolled back and there will be
an English build with international langpacks (or international full
builds);
- the implementation goes forward until it is bug-free: installer allows UI
language selection *and* online help from a localized LO UI is localized,
i.e. Hungarian LO UI with F1 opens Hungarian contextual help in the LO
help-wiki (I cannot test this with my install, RC2 with Slovenian helppack
was reinstalled with RC3, which still uses the RC2 help, although I did not
install localized help for RC3 - how do you uninstall help? This might be a
bug as well - many things are not polished with these helppacks);

And there is even a third possibility:
- LO33 is published as English only and/as a technology preview for other
languages. This way we can test if this online help decision was right or
not and the community can vote.

I believe I suggested another possibility (without much reaction though): make the helppacks available from the installer UI, and download them at install time if needed. I'm not sure if we're using NSIS or not, but at least NSIS supports downloading (see http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Features).

Rimas

filmsi · January 17, 2011, 4:41pm

And I think I did support your idea (or maybe just in my head, so I am
voicing my support now).

AbiWord does this with dictionaries already - it just downloads selected
dictionaries within the installation process.

There should, however, be a way to have the helppack already downloaded in
the same directory as the installation files - or to browse to that file on
the disk in one of the installation dialogs - if the computer is not
connected to Internet and/or the installation is a network/admin one.

LP, m.

timar · January 17, 2011, 9:00pm

2011.01.17. 17:41 keltezéssel, Martin Srebotnjak írta:

I believe I suggested another possibility (without much reaction though):
make the helppacks available from the installer UI, and download them at
install time if needed. I'm not sure if we're using NSIS or not, but at
least NSIS supports downloading (see http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Features
).

And I think I did support your idea (or maybe just in my head, so I am
voicing my support now).

AbiWord does this with dictionaries already - it just downloads selected
dictionaries within the installation process.

There should, however, be a way to have the helppack already downloaded in
the same directory as the installation files - or to browse to that file on
the disk in one of the installation dialogs - if the computer is not
connected to Internet and/or the installation is a network/admin one.

IMHO it's a good idea, someone (you maybe?) has to implement it. We
could have a "netinstall" and a "full install".

Andras

Sveinn_i_Felli · January 21, 2011, 8:27am

Hi, better late than never:

Þann fim 13.jan 2011 19:14, skrifaði Andras Timar:

Will there be another load from Ooo Pootle?

Please see http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/l10n/msg01363.html

We have quite a lot of new changes since the last load.

Cheers,
Leif Lodahl

Hi Leif,

I think it's a misunderstanding. There has never been a load from OOo
Pootle. Translation came from OOo source code and from individual
translators via mail or via TDF Pootle.

Please send me a link to your latest translation (or send me in
private mail) and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks,
Andras

Is it too late to have some updates coming over from OOo-pootle ?

One term has been quite difficult to adapt to our language (is), and of course it lives both in upstream OOo and in the LibreOffice add-on. We just found a way to handle this term acceptably and have edited respective files accordingly on both pootle servers.

I think for now it would be sufficient to update <http://pootle.services.openoffice.org/is/openoffice_org/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI.po>, there are other revisions aswell, but this is the most important.

If there's a way to do it so late in the process, great. If not, so be it.

Thanks a lot,
Sveinn í Felli