LibreOffice 4.4. translation workload

l10n
#1

Hello

I noticed in the main development branch that we will have a large
translation workload for the next version 4.4 of LibreOffice.

Not only I have personally written many new help pages (blame it on me),
but also the UI is undergoing many changes in terminology and linguistics.

For example,

https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/gitweb?p=core.git;a=commitdiff;h=616f24419aba82369cbc005e64bd6b4ea494787c

adds colons to many strings in the dialogs, which will force translators
to do it manually unless, by miracle, a script sprout somewhere to do it
automatically and spare us of a tedious work.

Please review the schedule to allow translators handle this extra workload.

Regards

#2

Hi Olivier,

Thanks for raising the red flag!

adds colons to many strings in the dialogs, which will force translators

with due respect: looking at the trouble all the work gives for the
volunteers here (and inconsistencies introduced because not all people
are evenly skilled with tooling and able to spent time etc etc)
I would even suggest to consider to park those changes up to the moment
that there is tooling that makes translation of the "new" strings painless..

#3

Hi,

Hi Olivier,

Thanks for raising the red flag!

> adds colons to many strings in the dialogs, which will force translators

with due respect: looking at the trouble all the work gives for the
volunteers here (and inconsistencies introduced because not all people
are evenly skilled with tooling and able to spent time etc etc)
I would even suggest to consider to park those changes up to the moment
that there is tooling that makes translation of the "new" strings

painless..

Yes thanks Olivier for the head up. I'll bring it to our next team call
and see what we can arrange.
For information (and for the first time) I don't consider the FR version to
be ready for 4.4.0, maybe for 4.4.1 and more surely for 4.4.2. I would like
to see how it really impacts the version and our regular users (and as a
consequence, my personal life ;-).
Cheers
Sophie

#4

Hi all,

For information, I've pinged Cloph about the space and other dialog
position changes, he told me that usually this is not marked for
translation.

For information also, there are several string changes done by the UX
team, these changes are tracked here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/RecentStringChanges
I've asked them several times to check in other languages that the
strings still fit in the dialogs. If not, please open an issue and
report here the number so we can track it.

From what I understand, the help files have not been modified. So this

is something to have in mind too. Or Olivier, I think you have open a
metabug to track where the help needs updates?

Cheers
Sophie

#5

Hello Sophie

From what I understand, the help files have not been modified. So this

is something to have in mind too. Or Olivier, I think you have open a
metabug to track where the help needs updates?

yes. fdo#80430

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80430

LOCALHELP: Features x Documentation gap meta issue

In a ideal world each developer that implements or change a feature
should open a [LOCALHELP] bug (with a minimum description on the matter)
and link to fdo#80430. That should be reinforced @ ESC meetings.

#6

Ok, thanks a lot Olivier, I'll pass that to the ESC meeting too.
Cheers
Sophie

#7

You can blame many of the cosmetic string changes on me.

I was told that somebody would create a script to handle the changes
in fdo#76404, so I went ahead (if somebody with coding skills wants to
volunteer to tackle that, it'd be great); the changes were needed from
a UX POV and also to fix a bug report, fdo#78826...

I was hoping that Pootle's Amagama (TM) facility would not make
translations "painful" for you guys, anyway... At least I'm gonna use
it for Spanish.

#8

Hi,

For information also, there are several string changes done by the UX
team, these changes are tracked here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/RecentStringChanges
I've asked them several times to check in other languages that the
strings still fit in the dialogs. If not, please open an issue and
report here the number so we can track it.

>From what I understand, the help files have not been modified. So this
is something to have in mind too. Or Olivier, I think you have open a
metabug to track where the help needs updates?

I've made a few help updates and added the links to these help commits
to the wiki page. I think this page can be also used for tracking help
updates (if there is no link to commit, the change still needs an
update).

I am afraid that the list of changes is far from complete - and that
we will find another changed strings when working on translations.

And one note to translations in general: it would be very helpful to
update Amagama translation memory to include LO 4.3 - otherwise we
could reintroduce bad translations from elder series (I admit that
using TM in Pootle is always risky since sources of Amagama
suggestions are not shown).

Best regards,
Stanislav

#9

Hi Stanislav,

Hi,

For information also, there are several string changes done by the UX
team, these changes are tracked here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/RecentStringChanges
I've asked them several times to check in other languages that the
strings still fit in the dialogs. If not, please open an issue and
report here the number so we can track it.

>From what I understand, the help files have not been modified. So this
is something to have in mind too. Or Olivier, I think you have open a
metabug to track where the help needs updates?

I've made a few help updates and added the links to these help commits
to the wiki page. I think this page can be also used for tracking help
updates (if there is no link to commit, the change still needs an
update).

I am afraid that the list of changes is far from complete - and that
we will find another changed strings when working on translations.

And one note to translations in general: it would be very helpful to
update Amagama translation memory to include LO 4.3 - otherwise we
could reintroduce bad translations from elder series (I admit that
using TM in Pootle is always risky since sources of Amagama
suggestions are not shown).

Do you know how to do that or where I can find documentation?
Thanks in advance,
Cheers
Sophie

#10

Hi,

And one note to translations in general: it would be very helpful to
update Amagama translation memory to include LO 4.3 - otherwise we
could reintroduce bad translations from elder series (I admit that
using TM in Pootle is always risky since sources of Amagama
suggestions are not shown).

Do you know how to do that or where I can find documentation?

I don't know, but I suppose that maintainers of Amagama have to be asked. They are probably the same as for Pootle - according to contacts listed here: https://github.com/translate/amagama

Also, I'm not sure if translation memory for old series should be removed - probably it is not good idea because suggestions for languages that were not updated for some time would be lost.

Best regards,
Stanislav

#11

I for one would like to remove old translation memory.
We corrected few thousand strings from old translations from 4.1 - 4.3 which were badly translated, but when I get new string I still have old translations suggested. This complicates new translations since I need to search for actual strings to see which we used.

Best regards,
Mihovil

05.11.2014 u 8:50, Stanislav Horáček je napisao/la:

#12

Hi Stanislav,

Hi,

And one note to translations in general: it would be very helpful to
update Amagama translation memory to include LO 4.3 - otherwise we
could reintroduce bad translations from elder series (I admit that
using TM in Pootle is always risky since sources of Amagama
suggestions are not shown).

Do you know how to do that or where I can find documentation?

I don't know, but I suppose that maintainers of Amagama have to be
asked. They are probably the same as for Pootle - according to contacts
listed here: https://github.com/translate/amagama

Ok, thanks, I'll try to reach Dwayne.

Also, I'm not sure if translation memory for old series should be
removed - probably it is not good idea because suggestions for languages
that were not updated for some time would be lost.

So we should make a list of the languages who want the TM removed and
ask one Pootle admin to do so. I'll open a new thread for that.

Kind regards
Sophie

#13

Hi Tom,

Hi :slight_smile:
Would it be a good idea for TDF to maintain their own Amagama server (or
whatever)? Would that mean that it's suggestions would be more likely to
fit the context better? Is it hard to set-up or does someone here know how
to do that or could we get help with it?

I'm taking care of it. Dwayne is the developer of Pootle and Amagama and
works with us already.
Cheers
Sophie

#14

Hi :slight_smile:
Would it be a good idea for TDF to maintain their own Amagama server (or
whatever)? Would that mean that it's suggestions would be more likely to
fit the context better? Is it hard to set-up or does someone here know how
to do that or could we get help with it?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#15

Is currect TM for LibreOffice using Mozilla TM also?
I know Dwayne works for Mozilla also, not sure if TM memory is shared.

Best regards,
Mihovil

05.11.2014 u 10:33, Sophie je napisao/la:

#16

Hi all,

So for information, I've discussed on IRC with Cloph who told me:

#17

Hi,

2014.11.04 17:23, Stanislav Horáček wrote:

And one note to translations in general: it would be very helpful to
update Amagama translation memory to include LO 4.3 - otherwise we
could reintroduce bad translations from elder series (I admit that
using TM in Pootle is always risky since sources of Amagama
suggestions are not shown).

I wonder what installation of AmaGama you are talking about. Is there
still a public instance of it which collects all the open-source
localizations into one TM? I tried to find it a few days ago, but couldn't.

And while this topic is on plate, does anyone think it would be a good
idea to run our own instance of AmaGama? I assume having a TM containing
only our own strings could help a lot when updating localizations
between releases, especially in cases like migration to Glade, where the
remain stay 99% the same, and only accesskeys and/or string id's change.
My vision is we could feed it with our strings when branching new
releases, and integrate it with Pootle to offer suggestions. I assume we
could also selectively drop old translations before importing new ones,
on a per-request basis.

Rimas

#18

Hi,

shame on me! I should have read the whole thread before proposing what
Tom already has. Just ignore this subthread. :slight_smile:

Rimas

#19

Hi,

2014.11.05 19:35, Sophie wrote:

So for information, I've discussed on IRC with Cloph who told me:
-------------
there is the terminology project or the per-directory terminology files,
but the translation memory is from amagama
------------
So it's not sure we will be able to remove it as Amagama server is a
shared instance over projects.
I wrote to Dwayne today to ask him if the 2.6.0 release is ready and
when it could be deployed to our project. From what I know this version
include a local TM. I also asked him how to update Amagama with our LO
TM (that would help those using Virtaal too).

I haven't been closely following development of Pootle (or anything
actually) lately, but *if* Pootle 2.6 is not ready yet, or *if* it will
not include the TM feature, I think the idea to host our own instance of
AmaGama is really worth considering. Having it our own, we could update
or discard the strings in it as needed, perhaps even on a per-locale
basis. That would hopefully make locale maintenance easier.

Rimas

#20

Hi :slight_smile:
I think you say it a LOT better. I didn't really understand what i was
saying but you make it sound more sensible.

I'm still not sure if it's part of Sophie's game-plan. I think it is, or
that she has some even better idea.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: