Libreoffice and Java

users
#1

I'm having a bit of a bother with any version of Libreoffice installed with JRE 1.7 on Windows 7.

Libreoffice crashes on start with any version of Java JRE greater than 1.6. If I go back to 1.6 I'm O.K.

Anyone else having issues?

If so and this is a new bug, what do you want to see?

Regards,

Bob

Bob McDonald
Sr. IPAM Engineer

(P) 267-236-0145
(F) 267-236-0016
(C) 215-370-3411
Bob.McDonald@PCN-inc.com<mailto:Bob.McDonald@pcn-inc.com>

PCN
Technical Expertise. Tangible Results.
www.PCN-Inc.com<http://www.lanusa.com/>

#2

Hi :slight_smile:
This seems to be a well known problem.  The latest version of Java that works seems to be around 1.6_32, ie the latest in their 1.6 branch.

TDF are trying to write-out any dependance on Java as it seems far tooo flaky and vulnerable these days.  About the only things you still need Java for is
1. if you use Base with the internal backend rather than using Base as a front-end connecting to a proper stable back-end
2.  Some of the wizards (which are best avoiding anyway as it's easier to do things properly).
3.  A few Extensions which you might not really be using anyway.  (Contacting whoever wrote the extension and let them know you like it might encourage them to update it and move away from java)

So, 1st step is to try switching off the "Use java runtime?" option in
Tools - Options - Java
and see if you notice any difference at all.  If java is needed for something it will just grumble and let you re-tick the option but you probably don't need it at all now :)  If you do then install 1.6_32 alongside whichever version of java you use for everything else.  (You can have more than 1 version of java at a time).

Regards form
Tom :slight_smile:

#3

No problems here with fully updated Win7 64bit plus jre 1.7 Update 5. I assume that you know you have to use the 32 bit Java with Win 7? At least you used to and that's what I keep and have tested here.

Peter HB

#4

Bob,

Review the LibreOffice Java configuration file with notepad, it is
located at
C:\Users\<yourusername>\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice\3\user\config\javase
ttings_Windows_x86.xml

Note that it has stanzas for Location and Version details--those must
match the version of the 32-bit Java JRE you are attempting to run.

If you have an entry in your PATH environment variable pointing to a
32-bit JRE, then deleting the javasettings_Windows_x86.xml configuration
file will allow it to be rebuilt with the correct JRE details for your
system. This delete/rebuild during version upgrades is just part of
housekeeping that needs to happen.

If you don't allow the rebuild--then the old JRE 1.6 configuration file
will always fail with a 1.7 version JRE.

As to dropping use of a JRE--this link shows exactly the LibreOffice
components that have a Java dependency.

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Java

Stuart

#5

Hi Bob and all.

I've been through the wringer on this and have still not got much of anywhere. It seems some people have major problems with this and some just don't seem to. I spent well over an hour going through the steps listed on bugzilla that were supposed to fix this, e.g. uninstalling java completely, cleaning the registry, installing the new java, setting the javahome variable and path, re-installing the JAB, etc. etc.

This did sort of fix my problem, LO at least no longer says that my JRE is defective when I try to enable accessibility. However from what I can tell the accessibility is still not working correctly. Supernova still does not read my menus or the state of checkboxes. NVDA doesn't either so I know it is not a Supernova problem. I have no idea what to do at this point and am frankly about to give up on this. Don't misunderstand me, the folks on this list have been very helpful trying to help me figure this out. However while telling me that LO isn't the problem and that it's Windows and Java is all good and fine and I actually do believe this is the case, it does not fix this and I still have a productivity suite that does not allow me to be productive. This is not something I am fooling around with as some sort of project, I depend on it for getting paperwork done for my work. I used to recommend this package for my students especially those on a limited income and I probably still will for the very few tech savvy ones I get but for most of them if you start talking to them about Javahome variables and setting paths they're going to ask you what the living hell you're blabbering about. I swore I'd never give Microshaft another dime for an Office package but that's what they use where I work and unless I get someplace with this pretty quick I may not have a choice.

Apologies to the list for the rant, I realize this thing is a work in progress and it's free and all that, however this is a serious issue for me. I really want to be able to offer people an alternative to shelling out 150 bucks for a word processor and spreadsheet but I won't be able to unless I find a reasonable way to fix this.

Best regards,

Tom

#6

It seems to work fine if you take JRE 1.7 off the machine and install JRE 1.6...

Once they take Java out of the equation, it'll be fixed. Until they do, however, take 1.7 off and Install 1.6. That seems to fix the problem.

YMMV,

Bob

Bob McDonald
Sr. IPAM Engineer

(P) 267-236-0145
(F) 267-236-0016
(C) 215-370-3411
Bob.McDonald@PCN-inc.com

PCN 
Technical Expertise. Tangible Results.
www.PCN-Inc.com

#7

Am 27.08.2012 19:06, Bob McDonald wrote:

It seems to work fine if you take JRE 1.7 off the machine and install JRE 1.6...

Once they take Java out of the equation, it'll be fixed. Until they do, however, take 1.7 off and Install 1.6. That seems to fix the problem.

YMMV,

Bob

Bob McDonald
Sr. IPAM Engineer

(P) 267-236-0145
(F) 267-236-0016
(C) 215-370-3411
Bob.McDonald@PCN-inc.com

PCN
Technical Expertise. Tangible Results.
www.PCN-Inc.com

From: Tom Randall [mailto:kf6ddt@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 11:47 AM
To: Bob McDonald; users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Libreoffice and Java

Hi Bob and all.

I've been through the wringer on this and have still not got much of
anywhere. It seems some people have major problems with this and some
just
don't seem to. I spent well over an hour going through the steps listed on
bugzilla that were supposed to fix this, e.g. uninstalling java completely,
cleaning the registry, installing the new java, setting the javahome
variable and path, re-installing the JAB, etc. etc.

This did sort of fix my problem, LO at least no longer says that my JRE is
defective when I try to enable accessibility. However from what I can tell
the accessibility is still not working correctly. Supernova still does not
read my menus or the state of checkboxes. NVDA doesn't either so I know it
is not a Supernova problem. I have no idea what to do at this point and am
frankly about to give up on this. Don't misunderstand me, the folks on this
list have been very helpful trying to help me figure this out. However
while telling me that LO isn't the problem and that it's Windows and Java is
all good and fine and I actually do believe this is the case, it does not
fix this and I still have a productivity suite that does not allow me to be
productive. This is not something I am fooling around with as some sort of
project, I depend on it for getting paperwork done for my work. I used to
recommend this package for my students especially those on a limited
income
and I probably still will for the very few tech savvy ones I get but for
most of them if you start talking to them about Javahome variables and
setting paths they're going to ask you what the living hell you're
blabbering about. I swore I'd never give Microshaft another dime for an
Office package but that's what they use where I work and unless I get
someplace with this pretty quick I may not have a choice.

Apologies to the list for the rant, I realize this thing is a work in
progress and it's free and all that, however this is a serious issue for me.
I really want to be able to offer people an alternative to shelling out 150
bucks for a word processor and spreadsheet but I won't be able to unless I
find a reasonable way to fix this.

Best regards,

Tom

From: Bob McDonald
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 5:22 AM
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Libreoffice and Java

I'm having a bit of a bother with any version of Libreoffice installed with
JRE 1.7 on Windows 7.

Libreoffice crashes on start with any version of Java JRE greater than 1.6.
If I go back to 1.6 I'm O.K.

Anyone else having issues?

If so and this is a new bug, what do you want to see?

Regards,

Bob

Bob McDonald
Sr. IPAM Engineer

(P) 267-236-0145
(F) 267-236-0016
(C) 215-370-3411
Bob.McDonald@PCN-inc.com<mailto:Bob.McDonald@pcn-inc.com>

PCN
Technical Expertise. Tangible Results.
www.PCN-Inc.com<http://www.lanusa.com/>

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@global.libreoffice.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
deleted

Tom Randall has trouble with one particular accessibility package in combination with LibreOffice. If the problem is related to LibreOffice, only the developers can give any qualified statement. I don't think that a single developers reads this list on a regular basis.

#8

Folks should understand that the "Java Accessibility Bridge" foundation
for LibreOffice Assistive Technology and Accessibility Tools is one of
the primary components entirely dependent on a functional JRE? Java is
going to be with us in LibreOffice long after JRE 1.6 has been dropped
from Oracle support. Dealing with JRE 1.7 configuration is necessary now
and in the future.

So, JRE 1.6u34 is the latest release of that branch and JRE 1.7u06 is
the latest of that branch. But, both are completely functional with
LibreOffice when properly configured, and both support Java
Accessibility Bridge and Assistive Technology and the Accessibility
Tools in LibreOffice.

The problem is when they are not configured correctly. Java Access
Bridge, LibreOffice AT, and LibreOffice in general require use of a
32-bit JRE to work seamlessly.

Users on 64-bit Windows are tripped up by the Oracle JRE installers (or
Ninite installer packaging) that generically install the 64-bit JRE. It
is the generic Windows centric installation--of executables copied into
the C:\Windows\System32 and C:\Windows\SysWOW64 folders that causes most
problems for LibreOffice Java Access Bridge dependent users of LO
Accessibility Tools. Simply put, the wrong version of the JRE gets
called.

To avoid that for JRE, JAB and LibreOffice AT users, forcing a proper
configuration requires removal of the generic executables and inclusion
of the JRE into system PATH variable. Convention says use a JAVA_HOME
variable, but the full path to the JRE bin directory is just as
effective, e.g. append ";C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre7\bin" to the
PATH variable.

Sounds simplistic, but if you start with a solid 32-bit JRE install, the
JAB will go on cleanly (use the JWin tool). Follow that with NVDA or
commercial screen reader, and then a LibreOffice 3.6.1 installation.
Which now offers Accessibility support during installation and startup.

Additionally, for users that had a JRE 1.6 installation and had problems
following a JRE 1.7 upgrade. Doing an "upgrade" to JRE 1.7 does not
clear the JRE 1.6 configuration that LibreOffice had been using--and
suspect there are JAB and other assistive technologies that will also
have broken configurations. The most reliable way is to remove it all
and start from the JRE installation.

But for certain, with LibreOffice the configuration has to be manually
cleared--and allowed to rebuild with correct JRE 1.7 details. A JRE 1.6
installation would be just as trouble prone if it were not configured
correctly.

Stuart

#9

And this is clearly documented...

Regards,

Bob

Bob McDonald
Sr. IPAM Engineer

(P) 267-236-0145
(F) 267-236-0016
(C) 215-370-3411
Bob.McDonald@PCN-inc.com

PCN 
Technical Expertise. Tangible Results.
www.PCN-Inc.com

#10

JRE 1.6 32 bit edition works all the time.
JRE 1.7 32 bit edition works if (and only if) JRE 1.6 is installed first and is pointed to in the options. (you can even uninstall JRE 1.6 afterward...)
Neither of the 64 bit versions work. (or show up as Java versions in the options list under LO)

Bottom line is; get rid of Java altogether and the problem ceases to be a problem...

Either you are getting rid of Java or you're not. It's sort of like being sick. Either you are or you aren't.

If even one thing remains that depends on Java, then it's a dependency.

Just my $.02

Regards,

Bob

Bob McDonald
Sr. IPAM Engineer

Bob.McDonald@PCN-inc.com

PCN 
Technical Expertise. Tangible Results.
www.PCN-Inc.com

#11

Hi :) 
I really liked this answer and i think we need an FAQ page about java because the issue keeps cropping up.  It seems a lot of people here each know about different problems with java and it would be good to collect together some of the issues and how to work around them.

So, i made the page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java
and am about to copy & paste Stuart's email into the page.  Please feel free to edit to make the page more useful.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#12

Hi :) 
I really liked this answer and i think we need an FAQ page about java because the issue keeps cropping up.  It seems a lot of people here each know about different problems with java and it would be good to collect together some of the issues and how to work around them.

So, i made the page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java
and am about to copy & paste Stuart's email into the page.  Please feel free to edit to make the page more useful.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#13

Tom,

Great idea--paste away. Feel free to edit my ramblings since I can be a bit verbose.

But it gets even better, at least on the accessibility side (remembering though that a functioning Java JRE is required for other LO components).

So now, in addition to JavaFX, Oracle has bundled Java Access Bridge v2.0.3 into the JRE 1.7u6; it is installed by default but is left inactive when a patch-in-place upgrade of JRE is done. I think the toggle between JAB active and inactive is going to be an issue during LO installation and use.

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/access/enable_and_test.html#enabling_jab

Jamal Mazrui's JWin JAB installer isn't obsolete, probably still the way to go for a clean JAB v2.0.2 installation, especially with a JRE 1.6u34 install. But I've sent Jamal a note suggesting it might be time to rework the JWin installer.

Also, I have an open bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54064 of how I think the JRE and JAB bit me during a LO 3.6.1.2 (RC2) test installation--manifested as an installer hang at java with incomplete LO user configuration build for a non-privileged user account. Haven't yet attempted to reproduce to verify--but reopened the bug for review as I believe it is a Java JRE / JAB related installation issue that will need some work.

Stuart

#14

Bob McDonald wrote

JRE 1.7 32 bit edition works if (and only if) JRE 1.6 is installed first
and is pointed to in the options. (you can even uninstall JRE 1.6
afterward...)
Neither of the 64 bit versions work. (or show up as Java versions in the
options list under LO)

Actually, that is completely wrong and in reality is one of the reasons so
many folks have problems with the transition from JRE 1.6 to JRE 1.7--they
do not clear out the old and incorrect configurations.

Here are extracts of the javasettings_Windows_x86.xml configuration file
with the JRE in use by Libre Office. It is found per-user at
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\LibreOffice\3\user\config

For JRE 1.6u34:

<jreLocations xsi:nil="true"/>
<javaInfo xsi:nil="false" vendorUpdate="2004-01-30" autoSelect="false">
<vendor>Oracle Corporation</vendor>
<location>file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Java/jre6</location>
<version>1.6.0_34</version>
<features>0</features>
<requirements>0</requirements>

and of JRE 1.7u6

<jreLocations xsi:nil="true"/>
<javaInfo xsi:nil="false" vendorUpdate="2004-01-30" autoSelect="false">
<vendor>Oracle Corporation</vendor>
<location>file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Java/jre7</location>
<version>1.7.0_06</version>
<features>0</features>
<requirements>0</requirements>

This .XML configuration file is NOT updated when you upgrade your JRE! It
must be deleted and allowed to rebuild--using your system environment PATH,
or you will end up with non-functional LO Java functions.

#15

Well that was how it worked for me. Since it is completely wrong, I'll quit posting about it and watch what happens in the future.

Have fun!

Regards,

Bob

#16

Bob,

Sorry, too shrill on my part. Just because it was incorrect doesn't mean
it was wrong.

Apologies--and please remain engaged.

Stuart

#17

Hi :slight_smile:
I think the response you got, that you got it completely wrong, was imprecise.  It is not as simple as java 1.6 vs 1.7.  There are loads of versions of 1.6 and then there are issues about precisely which version of your OS and then add in which version of LibreOffice.

Something that did work for 1 person obviously works and probably works for quite a lot of people but it might just be a lucky combination of versions.

The whole thing is just such a total mess.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#18

Hi :slight_smile:
Nicely said!  :)  It's sometimes difficult to hear the way people say things when just reading written words!  Normally something like 40% of communication is non-verbal or to do with intonation and other obscure clues.

I think it would be really great if you 2 or even just 1 of you or other people could edit the wiki-page
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq/Java
to make it more useful. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#19

Are you absolutely certain that a fresh/clean install of Windows 7 64bit, with a fresh/clean install of Java 1.7 (without there having been a 1.6 installed prior) and a fresh/clean install of Libreoffice will result in a NON functional Java environment?

If that is so, then the Libreoffice installation/startup initialization process is broken.

#20

Thanks Stuart...

So, if you (like I always do) first uninstall JRE 1.6, then install 1.7 (32bit of course), will it still be broken?