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Hi,
Today we uploaded new pot files for LibreOffice online to Pootle.
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/projects/libo_online/
Can you please help with translations, for the upcoming release.
Thanks!
Andras
Please note, LibreOffice Online is a web application. We can support only
those languages that have support in browsers. See the list at:
http://www.metamodpro.com/browser-language-codes
ca-valencia is a notable example that is *not* on this list. There can be
other examples. Please check, before translating.
Thanks,
Andras
Why can LO Online not deal with locales which are not in the browser-accept locales? It cannot possibly be in the realm of the impossible to implement a locale selection feature.
Seems a pretty weird list, for one thing "gd-ie" does not exist as a locale. I mean, it's on the list but there is no such thing as "Scottish Gaelic (gd) - Ireland (ie)". Scottish Gaelic is not an Irish locale. At all. It's like have fr-UK or es-FR.
Michael
Sgrìobh Andras Timar na leanas 25/05/2016 aig 21:54:
browser-accept locales? It cannot possibly be in the realm of the
impossible to implement a locale selection feature.
I agree that LibreOffice should not just rely on the browser language.
Often a translation in a specific language can be of low quality (now I
speak of the general case and not just LibreOffice), and in that case I
would want to be able to choose the English version - i hate when I am
stuck with a bad translation in my native language. And I can easily
imagine that some translations of LibreOffice are not perfect due to lack
of resources. To me it's too simplistic just to use the browser language
with no option of overriding it. It would be fine to use the browser
language as a default, but it should be possible to change the LibreOffice
language without having to change the entire language of the browser. Just
as it is in the desktop version of LibreOffice - you don't have to change
the operating system language to change the LibreOffice GUI language.
The locale selection feature would of course also solve the problem of the
missing browser languages.
Jesper
Whilst one has to go back in time, there is a use case for gd-IE that
that fails when one uses ga-IE as a workaround. One does have to go
further back in time, for pgl-ie-212 to be the required setting.
(Gaeilge Ársa in Ireland using the Ogham writing system.)
This is where the UI designer has to decide what percentage of the user
base can be pissed off, because the UI doesn't support their specific
use-case. Do you aim at a minimal 1,000,000 combinations (^1), or the
basic core of 275 million combinations (^2), or go to the full
1,188,137,600,000 theoretically possible combinations (^3).
^1: Minimal setup: 1,000 languages, 100 countries, 10 writing systems,
no modifier.
^2: Basic Core: 2,500 languages, 110 countries, 100 writing systems, 10
modifiers.
^3: Full: 17,576 languages, 676 countries, 1,000 writing systems, 100
modifiers
jonathon
Congratulations on the most absurd set of numbers ever to justify a bonkers approach. I bet some dev at the Pentagon made a similar brief for retaining 8" floppies in the nuclear launch program last year.
There isn't enough material in Primitive Irish to write a shopping list, never mind a website. It's mostly names of people so that's not a use case, it's a joke. Especially when you consider that, for example, this system leaves Yoruba (65 million *living* speakers capable of writing more than X ERECTED THIS STONE) or Kurdish (est. 15 million speakers) royally buggered...
In the words of Victor Meldrew "I don't believe it" - we're sitting here in 2016 debating an version of LibreOffice, with its long history of l10n, which is seemingly incapable of enabling users to access the software in their chosen language... I expect this kind of thing from Apple or Google, not TDF...
Michael
Sgrìobh toki na leanas 27/05/2016 aig 09:16:
Why can LO Online not deal with locales which are not in the
browser-accept locales? It cannot possibly be in the realm of the
impossible to implement a locale selection feature.
No, it's not impossible. In fact I've just implemented it.
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/online/commit/?id=62abb2533dab121156c8a5eef9db6d27e25cde65
It adds an optional 'lang' parameter, and if it is present, then it will
take precedence. It it's missing, the Accept-Language header will be used,
which is sent by the browser. The problem with this approach, that if user
asks for a localization in the 'lang' parameter, that is not present, then
the UI will fall back to English, and not to the next preferred language in
the Accept-Language header. (Or maybe not. I did not try.)
Seems a pretty weird list, for one thing "gd-ie" does not exist as a
locale. I mean, it's on the list but there is no such thing as "Scottish
Gaelic (gd) - Ireland (ie)". Scottish Gaelic is not an Irish locale. At
all. It's like have fr-UK or es-FR.
I did not find a better list. Maybe it's weird, maybe it's incomplete. For
example I can select Kurdish and Yoruba from Firefox -> Preferences ->
Content -> Languages -- the two examples you gave in your other email. But
with the 'lang' parameter, it is no longer important, what browsers
support.
I hope this helps. Best regards.
Andras
Hi Andras
That's good news though I don't quite see how the lang parameter translates into a manual selection option but maybe there's some other black magic connected to that which I'm not aware of 
I don't think it's a massive problem if it defaults to English - though again I don't actually see how that would happen? I mean, surely the interface would only offer LO Online in locales which actually have translations?
Michael
Sgrìobh Andras Timar na leanas 28/05/2016 aig 10:41:
Hi Michael,
Hi Andras
That's good news though I don't quite see how the lang parameter
translates into a manual selection option but maybe there's some other
black magic connected to that which I'm not aware ofI don't think it's a massive problem if it defaults to English - though
again I don't actually see how that would happen? I mean, surely the
interface would only offer LO Online in locales which actually have
translations?
Have you tried LO Online? Of course you can build and install it yourself,
but probably it is easier to try the CODE VM (
https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/). In CODE VM LO Online is integrated
with ownCloud. ownCloud provides the cloud storage backend for LO Online,
in this case. So, with my patch, it will be possible to use the language
that the user set in ownCloud. I think it makes a lot of sense. In this
case, language selection is in ownCloud settings. Loading the LO Online
iframe with the lang parameter gives the chance to integrators to change
the UI language. Note: it does not work in CODE VM at the moment, it will
get this update later.
Naturally, localized LO Online is only possible, if the strings are
translated. Incomplete translations will result in mixed English/localized
UI, just like in desktop LO.
Best regards,
Andras
Hi Andras,
I don't have the skills (I wish I did) of doing that but thanks for explaining how the process works. Which raises the question though of how ownCloud selects the languages it offers. Is there a list somewhere?
Michael
Sgrìobh Andras Timar na leanas 28/05/2016 aig 22:07:
Yes, log in to ownCloud, and at owncloud/index.php/settings/personal there
is the language selector dropdown. But ownCloud is just one example. There
are unlimitied possibilities to integrate LibreOffice Online with any web
application. Think about LibreOffice Online as a component, not as a
standalone application. It is up to the integrator, how to use
localizations of LibreOffice Online. It is not restricted by any means at
LibreOffice Online's side in theory.
Best regards,
Andras
If there are that many ways of integrating LO Online though, I think LO Online needs its own UI locale selection system. ownCloud happens to have such a thing but I would imagine that many don't (I vaguely recall someone posting to the list a year ago or so about some online integration like this which only offered 4 or 5 locales). Otherwise LO users will end up with a very inconsistent user experience where you get different locales on offer (or not) depending on so many random factors, most of which the end user has no control over. And that's bad for our users and ultimately the product.
I think we should file a bug. Thoughts?
Michael
Sgrìobh Andras Timar na leanas 31/05/2016 aig 11:41: