LibreOffice paragraph styles exported to other software/formats?

users
#1

Hello,

Apologies if this is a basic question. I've been given some documents to format according to certain style guidelines. The files are mostly .docx and .doc and must be sent off in this format. I work only with LibreOffice. My questions is, if I format the articles using paragraph and page styles rather than just directly changing the format in the body of the document, will the formatting be maintained when the documents are opened in MS Office? I am not concerned with small discrepancies that can be tweaked later on, rather whether this method of formatting generally transfers well. Again, sorry if it's a silly question.

Many thanks.
Ryan

#2

Hi :slight_smile:

Can you send them all as Doc?  if you can convert the DocX to Doc then it might work better.  DocX can be a bit unpredictable at times.

Do the documents have lots of images, frames, tables and charts and stuff?  Also i'm just wondering if it's possible to send Pdfs of the documents in addition to the documents themselves.  LibreOffice can use lossless compression easily and remembers the settings for the next one.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#3

In my experience, most paragraph styles tend to translate well to MS-Word formats. However, I've had problems with the alignment of automatic numbering and/or bullets. LO and MSW seem to align them differently.

One bigger difference, however, is the way the two formats handle page formatting. LO uses page styles to change formatting from one page to another, whereas Word does not. It uses section breaks to make such page formatting changes, and I've found discrepancies in translating page formatting between the two.

Virgil

#4

Hi Tom :slight_smile:

I can probably get away with sending .docs, but I would like the option to convert to .docx later if need be. At the final stages I can work on an MS computer in MS Office.

The documents have no images, they are basic articles with only prose and references. They need to look pretty professional though. Thanks for the suggestion regarding PDFs --- I'll most likely do that. My current plan is to create a LibreOffice template and apply it to the docs and then tweak them later on an MS machine.

Many thanks for the help.

Regards,
Ryan

#5

Thanks, Virgil.

I can probably alter any lists when I work in an MS environment at the final stage of formatting.

Regarding page formatting — I'm wondering if I use slightly more advanced features of LibreOffice to get my results whether it would cause more problems when working in Word. I am trying to keep the process relatively simple. The articles only need to have consistent fonts and spacing and perhaps one page break for the bibliographies. I have starting created a LibreOffice template with customised paragraph styles and some changes to the page style. I was planning to apply this to the .docs. As long as 90% or so of my formatting would transfer to Word, I don't mind making some manual adjustments at that stage.

Thanks,
Ryan

#6

Hi :slight_smile:
If you can use MS Office to do some final proof-reading then you are unlikely to have any problems.

We have been assuming that is not possible and that would make the final outcome uncertain.  Being able to quickly scroll through before sending it out into the world kinda eliminates that uncertainty.

If you can keep all your 'originals' in Odt format and then at the end convert to Doc format then you should find that there are no surprises.

Virgil seems to be talking about a very specific set of styles or method of using styles.  He is talking about changing styles (such as changing the font of "text body") on different pages within the same document.  If you need to do that it might be worth creating duplicates of the styles and then modifying the duplicates?  I'm not sure how to deal with that but Virgil has probably found a work-around if needed.

I would keep copies of photos/images/art/logos near the original Odts just in case you do run into problems.  LO does have an extremely rare intermittent bug that is difficult to pin down but seems to be getting rarer and rarer as code clean-up goes on.  You know that you can rename files from .Odt or .DocX to .Zip and then double-click to see the Xml coding inside along with folders for various things such as images.  Sometimes it can be a neat way to fix problems but it's a bit risky.  The Xml tags and such are very different in the 2 formats so just renaming .Odt to .DocX might create fairly serious problems.  Stick with the "Save As ...".  the Doc format doesn't open in that way and doesn't hold images in an image format which is another reason i suggest keeping a copy of images nearby.

Also i have sometimes found that mysterious things happen during the course of a Word document.  So to save myself a lot of time i tend to start with a fresh new Odt and then use
Ctrl Shift v
to paste in "unformatted text" and then apply styles (and maybe modfied the styles after to watch the mod ripple through the document).  Occasionally i have wanted to "just do something quickly" and then been frustrated by some weird bit of insane MS formatting that just keeps throwing up problems until i relent and do the "start again from scratch" approach which has then typically taken just a few minutes even if the problem seemed intractable.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#7

Ryan wrote:

Regarding page formatting — I'm wondering if I use slightly more advanced features of LibreOffice to get my results whether it would cause more problems when working in Word.

I think that's a good way of phrasing the issue. I think the more we use methods that are unique to LO, such as page styles, the more likely we will be to have problems when translating to .doc format.

When I know I have to save something in Word format, I think it makes sense to try to emulate the Word way of doing things as much possible. You'll lose some of the advantages of using LO, but the conversion to .doc will be cleaner.

Virgil

#8

Thanks, Tom, Virgil.

If I wanted to use different text body styles throughout I would probably have made new styles and called them text body 1, 2, etc. Luckily nothing like that is needed in this case. But I have created my simple template with basic paragraph and page styles.

So, in trying to process the information in both of your replies, I feel I now have two options: (1) Keep with the MS formats (.docx, but .doc if possible) and format with minimal use of LO's special features (even so, I'd rather use styles than format everything manually), (2) Start a blank .odt and copy and paste my article content and load the styles windows machine).

Which method do you think would give the best results? The priority is for the finished pieces to look consistent in MS Word... and also allow other people to edit the .docs in Word with minimal quirky things going on.

Thanks for all this advice.

Regards,
Ryan

#9

Hi :slight_smile:
Tweaking in MS office is probably the best time to convert Doc to DocX.

However you then risk the DocX looking different if they are not using the same version of Windows and the same version of MSO.  Mind you any editable format changes a bit due to external issues such as different printer, and other unlikely factors.  So i guess Doc or DocX should look fine as long as you don't need an exact match. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#10

Hi :slight_smile:
I think my way is the best, unless it doesn't work out and then i need to find someone else to blame.  Virgil's plan also has merit and it sounds like he has used it on more and different types of documents than me.  Mine tend to have quite a lot of logos.  Not sure if Virgil's documents are more ilke yours.

Is it possible to do a trial run of 1 or 2?  If you find quirks you don't like do the same 1 or 2 the other way and have a quick look to see which looks best?

Both methods probably work just as well in the longer term, if other people are going to edit them, because they will find weird ways to stuff up formatting to get you back to square 1 again. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#11

Hi :slight_smile:
iow.  Both ways are good.  Pick one.  Use it.  (or modify one)

Neither is perfect because DocX and even Doc is not perfect.  Odt usage is on the rise and beginning to be the best choice for long-term storage.  Hopefully it will 'soon' become the best choice for active collaboration too.

Until then we are at the mercy of a single profit-making company that is beginning to panic about the sudden rise of mobile computing.  They need to sell more of what people already have.  How are they going to convince people to keep buying stuff they don't really rely on so much anymore?

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#12

My documents tend to be *really* basic in terms of formatting. Typically, they are either legal or academic style papers. I'm a heavy user of paragraph styles and won't work without them.

I tend to do my entire document as an .odt and then at the end convert to .doc as necessary. I'd use the paragraph styles, but I would avoid LO specific methods.

Another option is a shareware word processor called Atlantis. It's a lightweight clone of pre 2007 Word (e.g., no ribbon) with a $35.00 registration. I often use it when Word compatibility is paramount. It does nearly everything *exactly* like Word. I honestly don't know why MS hasn't sued them, it's that close. It doesn't support tables, but other than that, it will handle simple formats very well and will produce a result that Word should read fairly well.

Virgil

#13

Thanks, Virgil.

My documents are similar to yours. One last question then I'll give you guys some peace. :slight_smile: Would making a page style with page size "letter" and with a footer be considered LO specific? I don't need anything more intricate than that.

Thanks for the tip regarding Atlantis. I only have Linux at home so will probably stick with LO.

Thanks again. Your replies have helped a lot.

Regards,
Ryan

#14

Thanks, Tom.

I'll do as you say. I'll start with a blank .odt and assess the method/results as I go. I agree with your comments about why this process is made difficult for profit by certain entities. The current problem with collaboration is that once the file leaves your computer.. you soon end up trading .docs back and forth, unfortunately.

Regards,
Ryan

#15

Before answering your question, I did a little test. I loaded a simple .odt two page document in LO. It has some basic paragraph styles, and a few outline styles with automatic numbering, along with a footer with a page number. Basic stuff.

I then saved the document as a .doc (Word 2003). I loaded it into the Word Starter Version that came with my Sony Laptop, and it converted *almost* perfectly. There was only a slight deviation in my outline numbering. LO adds more horizontal space after an automatic number, whereas Word adds a <tab> character. When converting the document, LO added a <tab> and adjusted the extra horizontal space, but there was still an ever so slight difference in the lining up of the text. It would only bother an obsessive person like me.

The page formatting and footer with page number translated perfectly.

I'm using LO 3.6.7 and I must say that it's .doc translation is extremely good, much better than I remember from previous versions.

Virgil

#16

Hi :slight_smile:
Good point about using US-letter!  That might make the biggest difference!

Even though US-letter is only widely available in the US and the rest of the world tends to print on A4 it is still fairly rare to find computers set-up to print to A4.  That might make more difference than which method you use. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#17

When will you guys across the pond realize that “normal” letter paper is 8.5 by 11 inches?

Virgil

#18

Thanks a lot for that, Virgil.

Based on the information you and Tom have provided, my workflow will go: .ott (with paragraph and page styles) --> .odt (copy and paste .doc content, load style from template, format, save) --> export to PDF --> save as .doc --> send to MS computer --> Manually clean up any problems.

I think this should be fine, if a little involved. All the fonts I need are standard MS stuff, which I have installed. I'll spare you the horror stories about preparing a nice document in LO using DejaVU fonts and then later opening in a new*ish* version of MS Word. :wink:

Thanks again for the time you took. Think I can get to work now.

Regards,
Ryan

#19

Hahaha. I just wish we could have an agreed standard! :wink:

Ryan

#20

I think you've got a good process there.

Fonts! It's one problem I see with interaction between Linux and Windows. I have a dual boot Windows/Linux laptop, and the font issue is a constant problem. I've found that many Windows fonts install quite nicely into Linux, but I do want to respect copyrights and licenses, so I tend to use free fonts as much as possible. The URW collection of free fonts is quite nice, as is Linux Libertine, which has some really nice expert effects (old style numbering, true small caps, etc.). Another great free font for book-style work is OFL Sorts Mill Goudy.

Virgil