Libreoffice work-flow?

How do people use LibreOffice effectively?

It's been about 15 years since I used programs like LibreOffice (MS Word at the time) to write documents. Maybe a single page or two, but not anything with a structure.

Whenever I needed to write longer documents, with headings, references quotes, sections et cetera; I used LaTeX and lately HTML.

Now I need to use LibreOffice, because everyone else at my job does, and it's been driving me crazy. As I was trying to insert a few excerpts into my documents, it stuck me: maybe I'm used to a completely different work-flow than what is expected by LibreOffice, and that's why nothing makes sense and things that should be easy seem impossible.

So my question is: How do you work with LibreOffice? Does anyone have any personal anecdotes about moving from LaTeX or HTML to LibreOffice?

/Ulrik

Hi :slight_smile:
There is some documentation at
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/
The Styles and Templates chapter might be very useful and would put you ahead of
most users.

It's a wysiwyg editor in a gui so yes it is very very different from what you
are probably used to. It can be a little unpredictable and weird at times. You
might like to press the back-to-front P icon in the tool-bar at the top. This
will show all the non-printing characters that are usually invisible and will
help you feel more in control of the result. If your colleagues look over your
shoulder it will drive them mad tho.

Generally the idea is to sort formatting as you type but that can be very
inefficient except when trying to use tables. You are supposed to keep going
up to the icons toolbar to click on things to apply formatting to what chunks of
text you have selected or you can click on something such as the B icon to start
making things Bold and then click on the B icon again to get back to normal.
There are a lot of short-cut keys such as Ctrl B that act like the Bold
icon/button but most people have no idea about those. They will probably help
you a lot tho as it means you don't have to keep 1 hand on the mouse as you try
to type.

Ummm, sorry i can't really help you much! To be honest it seems like you are
trying to take a step backwards so there might not be a lot of people able to
really help you. It is worth struggling with it tho. Just try to avoid being a
perfectionist!
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hej Ulrik: Comments inline.

How do people use LibreOffice effectively?

In order for us to be able to answer that, it might be a good idea if you tell us how you work with LaTeX and HTML. For example, do you write the whole document and then begin formatting it, adding whatever codes you need to create a header, body text, bold and italics and so on, or do you add these codes as you go along?

It's been about 15 years since I used programs like LibreOffice (MS Word at the time) to write documents. Maybe a single page or two, but not anything with a structure.

Whenever I needed to write longer documents, with headings, references quotes, sections et cetera; I used LaTeX and lately HTML.

You mention 'longer' documents. Do you mean documents with chapters or at least sections? Do they have a table of contents? An index? Do they include graphics of some kind? If you are into _really_ long documents, like books, you will probably want to look at master documents. These can be thought of as a document containing other documents, rather like the include statement in a program - since you use LaTeX I assume you're a unix/linux user. A master document allows you to create your long document in passable chunks, which don't necessarily have to be a chapter, they can be bigger or smaller. You just hang them together at the end to get your book. And if your chunks are small enough you can easily rearrange them to improve the structure of your work.

Now I need to use LibreOffice, because everyone else at my job does, and it's been driving me crazy. As I was trying to insert a few excerpts into my documents, it stuck me: maybe I'm used to a completely different work-flow than what is expected by LibreOffice, and that's why nothing makes sense and things that should be easy seem impossible.

Assuming you do write your whole document in more or less continuous text without bothering about formatting until you're done with an acceptable draft, you now put on your formatting cap, and, as Tom says, there are various ways to format text. Basically they are all about marking the text you want to format, and choosing the format either by clicking an icon or entering a keyboard shortcut. In this case, by contrast with HTML (don't know about LaTeX) you get to see the effect of your change immediately, and can reverse it with two clicks.

Some of your formatting you can do more or less automatically, for example, if you want to format each chapter with a header in 14pt 3 cm down the page, and continue with double spacing, you can set up a default document with those characteristics, and just enter your text, and it will be formatted automatically for you.

Hope this helps.

//James

Hi :slight_smile:
I find
Ctrl z to undo and
Ctrl y to redo
are awesome time-savers along with
Ctrl x to cut or
Ctrl c to copy and
Ctrl v to paste
and then apply formatting to the pasted text. Ctrl Shift V is supposed to paste
unformatted which might help if it works. It does work with some apps but not
others ime.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

You can use LaTeX with the extension. there is one at - http://ooolatex.sourceforge.net/

As for HTML, LibreOffice can do some HTML work, but it was designed as an alternative to Office suites like MS Office.

For me, you need to decide what format your document needs to be in. HTML for browser-based viewing [try Kompozer for a free HTML editor], or printed document based.

I have not used LaTex, but I have written many Web Pages and Browser-Based documents. I use Web Page editors for that. For all printed documents and spreadsheets, I have used LibreOffice ever since it came out. I started using Word 95 and switched to OpenOffice.org when it could read/write .doc files. When LibreOffice came out, I like it better. Since Oracle dumped OOo a few months later, it seemed a lot of OOo users preferred to use LibreOffice as well.

So what are the types of documents are you creating?
That will help us help you.

Hej Ulrik: Comments inline.

How do people use LibreOffice effectively?

In order for us to be able to answer that, it might be a good idea if
you tell us how you work with LaTeX and HTML. For example, do you
write the whole document and then begin formatting it, adding
whatever codes you need to create a header, body text, bold and
italics and so on, or do you add these codes as you go along?

I add context as I go along. I say: "This is a header" or "emphasize this" or "Add a reference here".

Then, sometimes right away but also as the last finishing touches, I tell the program how to format these things. For instance italic for emphasis or "<Author> - <Year>" for references.

Similar to using Styles as far as I can tell.

It's been about 15 years since I used programs like LibreOffice (MS
Word at the time) to write documents. Maybe a single page or two,
but not anything with a structure.

Whenever I needed to write longer documents, with headings,
references quotes, sections et cetera; I used LaTeX and lately
HTML.

You mention 'longer' documents. Do you mean documents with chapters
or at least sections? Do they have a table of contents? An index?
Do they include graphics of some kind?

Longer than a sentence, really... If I want to print a sign that says: "Keep off the lawn!" I might have used LibreOffice (or GIMP or InkScape).

I don't really write long documents, or often. Mostly just to communicate with my co-workers about our projects or documentation. And since they need to be able to change the documents too, I have to use odt.

If you are into _really_ long
documents, like books, you will probably want to look at master
documents.

I'll look at them, they sound very useful.

Hope this helps.

//James

Thanks, everyone.

Hi :slight_smile:
Ahah, ok instead of writing "This is a header" use that time to select the text
and then click on Bold, Centre, etc so that if you don't get time to go back and
sort it properly at least it still looks like a header. Similarly with
emphasising (but don't centre). I don't know about roughly adding a reference.
Those short-cut keys are handy
Ctrl i to italicise and then Ctrl i to stop again, for example.

Ok, i think the difference might be that with Html you have to plan things a
little and maybe come back later to tidy-up. With word-processing you have to
get into the habit of just doing without thinking or planning.

Most of us are approaching this from the other direction so we need to plan more
and make more effort to leave stuff to the proof-reading stage but i think maybe
you do that tooo much already.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi Ulrik,

Ulrik Långström schrieb:

How do people use LibreOffice effectively?

It's been about 15 years since I used programs like LibreOffice (MS Word
at the time) to write documents. Maybe a single page or two, but not
anything with a structure.

Whenever I needed to write longer documents, with headings, references
quotes, sections et cetera; I used LaTeX and lately HTML.

Now I need to use LibreOffice, because everyone else at my job does, and
it's been driving me crazy. As I was trying to insert a few excerpts
into my documents, it stuck me: maybe I'm used to a completely different
work-flow than what is expected by LibreOffice, and that's why nothing
makes sense and things that should be easy seem impossible.

So my question is: How do you work with LibreOffice? Does anyone have
any personal anecdotes about moving from LaTeX or HTML to LibreOffice?

You can use it similar to HTML. LibreOffice uses internally tags, but they are hidden behind wysiwyg. If you unzip a document and look into the content.xml you will notice, that the file format is similar to HTML.
In LibreOffice you use "styles". You open the Style&Formatting-Window with F11. You can think of a style as marking a portion of text with tags and assigning css at the same time. For paragraph-style it is enough, if your cursor is inside the paragraph. So applying the style "Heading 1" will mark that paragraph internally as <h1>...</h1>. It adds a classname in addition. You can alter the style later on, which will alter the style-definitions for that class. All paragraph styles result in "block"-elements.
For characters, you have to mark them before you can apply the style. All character styles result in "inline"-elements.

As you are familiar with tags, you should not use direct formatting via symbol bar or short-cuts, but always use styles. The first entry in the Format-menu will remove all direct formatting. Using direct formatting results in a lot of trouble for longer documents

Kind regards
Regina

Hi Ulrik,

Ulrik Långström schrieb:

Hej Ulrik: Comments inline.

How do people use LibreOffice effectively?

In order for us to be able to answer that, it might be a good idea if
you tell us how you work with LaTeX and HTML. For example, do you
write the whole document and then begin formatting it, adding
whatever codes you need to create a header, body text, bold and
italics and so on, or do you add these codes as you go along?

I add context as I go along. I say: "This is a header" or "emphasize
this" or "Add a reference here".

You do it the same way in LibreOffice.
"This is a header" is done by applying the paragraph style "Heading 1", "Heading 2", depending on the desired level.
"emphasize" is done be marking the portion of text and then applying the character style "Emphasis".
In Menu Insert you will find a short way to references and the long way with more feature is Insert > Fields > Other.

Then, sometimes right away but also as the last finishing touches, I
tell the program how to format these things. For instance italic for
emphasis

The styles have some appearance predefined, but you can alter it anytime.

  or "<Author> - <Year>" for references.

I do not understand that. But have a look at the fields.

Similar to using Styles as far as I can tell.

So do it with styles.

Kind regards
Regina

Hi,

Hi :slight_smile:
Ahah, ok instead of writing "This is a header" use that time to select the text
and then click on Bold, Centre, etc so that if you don't get time to go back and
sort it properly at least it still looks like a header. Similarly with
emphasising (but don't centre). I don't know about roughly adding a reference.
Those short-cut keys are handy
Ctrl i to italicise and then Ctrl i to stop again, for example.

Tom, please, don't give advice like this one above.

Ulrik is already used to use styles and he should do the same thing
with LibreOffice too. Using styles makes changing the formatting of
your document so much easier...

I don't want to manually reformat every heading, when my boss wants
to have headings with "Liberation Sans, 16 pt, bold" instead of the
used "Liberation Serif 14 pt, italic". That's a horrible work and so
error prone. Use styles and you have that change done in a second.

@Ulrik
Just follow Regina's advice! She gave you the right hints.

Sigrid

Hi :slight_smile:
Regina's advice is much better than mine but we were talking about extremely
short documents. Until Regina's advice, most advice had been assuming a need to
set things up for books, dissertations and generally stuff much longer than a
single side of A4. The original poster had just said he wanted a method that
was quick&dirty for tiny documents, hence my "Ahah".
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

You do it the same way in LibreOffice. "This is a header" is done by
applying the paragraph style "Heading 1", "Heading 2", depending on
the desired level. "emphasize" is done be marking the portion of text
and then applying the character style "Emphasis".

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking/hoping for. Tips about how
to do things the LibreOffice way. I just couldn't find it until I knew
to look for it.

or "<Author> - <Year>" for references.

I do not understand that. But have a look at the fields.

In LaTeX inserting a reference and deciding what it looks like are two
different. You insert references as you go along and only afterwards to
you decide if they should be of the format "Gamma, Helm, Johnson,
Vlissides, 1994" or "GoF" or "[1]" or whatever style you want.

I haven't needed bibliographies yet, though.

You can use it similar to HTML. LibreOffice uses internally tags, but
they are hidden behind wysiwyg. If you unzip a document and look into
the content.xml you will notice, that the file format is similar to
HTML.

I opened the .odt, and it was much easier to understand then the
half-lie that wysiwyg presents. I can't imagine why they are so popular. :frowning:

Thanks
/Ulrik