LO33RC3 Known L10N Issues

filmsi · January 15, 2011, 8:27pm

Hello,

after doing some testing of 33RC3 here is a list of issues regarding L10N
(some already mentioned on this list):
- the Windows installer doesn't start in the desired (system
language/locale) language in all cases (needs more investigation, what
happened here);
- the online help is English only (there was a promise this would be taken
care of in the following week just before the release, but ...);
- the list of contributors, called from the Help menu, is unlocalizable (an
odt file opens); as a main menu entry this seems unacceptable for L10N;

I hope they get solved by the time of release so that L10N teams can OK the
release in their languages (or, if they do not regard full L10N as the goal,
they can OK the current state for their language).

Any other findings in this area?

Lp, m.

Erdal_Ronahi · January 16, 2011, 9:57am

Hello,

I hope they get solved by the time of release so that L10N teams can OK the
release in their languages (or, if they do not regard full L10N as the
goal,
they can OK the current state for their language).

What is the proper way to "OK" the current state for a language?

Erdal

Andrea_Pescetti · January 16, 2011, 11:05am

Erdal Ronahi wrote:

> I hope they get solved by the time of release so that L10N teams can OK the
> release in their languages (or, if they do not regard full L10N as the
> goal, > they can OK the current state for their language).

What is the proper way to "OK" the current state for a language?

There is none, from what I understood reading replies to my request
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-December/004076.html
and related discussions. At least, given the technical choices made for
the Windows download (multi-lang package), there's no way for one
localization group to veto the release in their language.

Regards,
Andrea.

thb · January 17, 2011, 9:45am

Martin Srebotnjak wrote:

- the list of contributors, called from the Help menu, is unlocalizable (an
odt file opens); as a main menu entry this seems unacceptable for L10N;

Hi Martin,

oh, you're right - could you please file a bug for that? That file
is auto-generated, so the upshot is, not so many strings to
translate.

I hope they get solved by the time of release so that L10N teams can OK the
release in their languages (or, if they do not regard full L10N as the goal,
they can OK the current state for their language).

I don't think that the untranslated contributor list should be a
blocker...

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

Rimas_Kudelis · January 17, 2011, 11:14am

Hi,

2011.01.17 11:45, Thorsten Behrens rašė:

Martin Srebotnjak wrote:

- the list of contributors, called from the Help menu, is unlocalizable (an
odt file opens); as a main menu entry this seems unacceptable for L10N;

Hi Martin,

oh, you're right - could you please file a bug for that? That file
is auto-generated, so the upshot is, not so many strings to
translate.

I'd suggest that this menu item should open http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/credits/ in the browser, just like the link in About dialog does, or even removed altogether, considering the fact that the link is there. The document that is being opened is really ugly (for me, at least) and it looks like it's only there to please ourselves. I'd say a link in About dialog is enough as a recognition of the stuff we do, there's no need to populate the UI with it all over; this looks rather unprofessional.

Another bug: there's a text "- DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS DOCUMENT -" at the very top of the license document (Help -> License). That text should be removed, and the document should simply not be available for localization.

Also, the presentation of licenses could probably be improved, if anyone has time for that. The way they currently look like makes me want to close that window right away. It's perhaps subjective and not really an L10n issue, but I hope it won't be missed just because I mentioned it here and not anywhere else.

Rimas

filmsi · January 17, 2011, 4:36pm

Hi,

I'd suggest that this menu item should open
http://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/credits/ in the browser, just like the
link in About dialog does, or even removed altogether, considering the fact
that the link is there. The document that is being opened is really ugly
(for me, at least) and it looks like it's only there to please ourselves.
I'd say a link in About dialog is enough as a recognition of the stuff we
do, there's no need to populate the UI with it all over; this looks rather
unprofessional.

Well, since it is a script on the server side that parses data and the
script can and hopefully will be localized for localized LO sites, I guess
every L10N team could point this to its own localized page with same data.
And the link or button to it could be made a part of the About dialog, just
as was the old keystroke combination in OOo to display all the contributors.

Another bug: there's a text "- DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS DOCUMENT
-" at the very top of the license document (Help -> License). That text
should be removed, and the document should simply not be available for
localization.

+1
I think that the introduction in the dialog already mentions that the
license is in English, so this text is kind of meant for localizers, and the
localizers already know from this list that the document is non-localizable
and have agreed to it - so it's redundant.

Also, the presentation of licenses could probably be improved, if anyone
has time for that. The way they currently look like makes me want to close
that window right away. It's perhaps subjective and not really an L10n
issue, but I hope it won't be missed just because I mentioned it here and
not anywhere else.

+1
Maybe the design team could deal with it after it finishes with the icons
etc.
This kind of PDF/document should also be fully accessible (maybe it already
is, just reminding).

Lp, m.

timar · January 17, 2011, 9:12pm

2011.01.17. 17:35 keltezéssel, Martin Srebotnjak írta:

Another bug: there's a text "- DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS DOCUMENT
-" at the very top of the license document (Help -> License). That text
should be removed, and the document should simply not be available for
localization.

+1
I think that the introduction in the dialog already mentions that the
license is in English, so this text is kind of meant for localizers, and the
localizers already know from this list that the document is non-localizable
and have agreed to it - so it's redundant.

-1
It's a legal text. The sentence "DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS
DOCUMENT" is not only for us, LibreOffice localizers, but for everyone
who reads the document. Only English text is legally binding so vendors,
packagers, etc. also should not touch it.

Also, the presentation of licenses could probably be improved, if anyone
has time for that. The way they currently look like makes me want to close
that window right away. It's perhaps subjective and not really an L10n
issue, but I hope it won't be missed just because I mentioned it here and
not anywhere else.

+1
Maybe the design team could deal with it after it finishes with the icons
etc.

+1
It could have a TOC, better structure, same type of things should be
grouped (licences of fonts, licences of dictionaries, licenses of
libraries, etc.). But extra caution is needed. Any modification/omission
can lead to legal issues. I think only a trusted person should touch it
and other trusted person should review the work of this person. We
cannot diff the versions easily, if someone makes a lot of formatting
changes and reordering.

Andras

Rimas_Kudelis · January 17, 2011, 9:49pm

2011.01.17 23:12, Andras Timar rašė:

2011.01.17. 17:35 keltezéssel, Martin Srebotnjak írta:

Another bug: there's a text "- DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS DOCUMENT
-" at the very top of the license document (Help -> License). That text
should be removed, and the document should simply not be available for
localization.

+1
I think that the introduction in the dialog already mentions that the
license is in English, so this text is kind of meant for localizers, and the
localizers already know from this list that the document is non-localizable
and have agreed to it - so it's redundant.

-1
It's a legal text. The sentence "DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS
DOCUMENT" is not only for us, LibreOffice localizers, but for everyone
who reads the document. Only English text is legally binding so vendors,
packagers, etc. also should not touch it.

I think it's mentioned in the license, and if not, it could be. I'm sure there are better ways to explain that than DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS DOCUMENT.

Rimas

Rimas_Kudelis · January 17, 2011, 9:52pm

2011.01.17 23:49, Rimas Kudelis rašė:

2011.01.17 23:12, Andras Timar rašė:

2011.01.17. 17:35 keltezéssel, Martin Srebotnjak írta:

Another bug: there's a text "- DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS DOCUMENT
-" at the very top of the license document (Help -> License). That text
should be removed, and the document should simply not be available for
localization.

+1
I think that the introduction in the dialog already mentions that the
license is in English, so this text is kind of meant for localizers, and the
localizers already know from this list that the document is non-localizable
and have agreed to it - so it's redundant.

-1
It's a legal text. The sentence "DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS
DOCUMENT" is not only for us, LibreOffice localizers, but for everyone
who reads the document. Only English text is legally binding so vendors,
packagers, etc. also should not touch it.

I think it's mentioned in the license, and if not, it could be. I'm sure there are better ways to explain that than DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS DOCUMENT.

I meant: if it isn't, then it should be mentioned in the introductory dialog which was made specifically for the purpose of explaining the fact that the license text is given in English on purpose.

Rimas

filmsi · January 17, 2011, 9:53pm

Yeah,

I think it's mentioned in the license, and if not, it could be. I'm sure
there are better ways to explain that than DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS
DOCUMENT.

that text reads like a sign in a prison or something. As if that document
should not be opening at all. But if its intent is to scare people, I am
sure the design project can make that text even bigger and louder.

Lp, m.

Olav_Dahlum · January 17, 2011, 10:47pm

Could we be better off with the same document preserved as e.g PDF?

Olav

Rimas_Kudelis · January 18, 2011, 7:38am

2011.01.18 00:47, Olav Dahlum rašė:

Yeah,

I think it's mentioned in the license, and if not, it could be. I'm sure
there are better ways to explain that than DO NOT TRANSLATE OR LOCALIZE THIS
DOCUMENT.

that text reads like a sign in a prison or something. As if that document
should not be opening at all. But if its intent is to scare people, I am
sure the design project can make that text even bigger and louder.

Lp, m.

Could we be better off with the same document preserved as e.g PDF?

I don't think the file format matters, and since LO can't open PDF's (or can it?), I think it's totally OK to have an OpenDocument file. What I don't like is the way it looks at the moment.

Rimas

filmsi · January 18, 2011, 8:10am

Hi,

2011.01.18 00:47, Olav Dahlum rašė:

Could we be better off with the same document preserved as e.g PDF?

I don't think the file format matters, and since LO can't open PDF's (or
can it?), I think it's totally OK to have an OpenDocument file. What I don't
like is the way it looks at the moment.

The thing about ODT files opening in an office suite - they are editable
documents. Why does a text editor open a text file? It obviously wants and
calls upon a user to edit it. In this case a document opens that explicitly
says - do not mess with me, I should not be changed. So it is at least funny
if nothing else.

Maybe the most appropriate format would be html and the page should open in
a browser. Every OS has one. PDF readers are not present on all
out-of-the-box systems.

Lp, m.

Rimas_Kudelis · January 18, 2011, 8:14am

2011.01.18 10:10, Martin Srebotnjak rašė:

Hi,

2011.01.18 00:47, Olav Dahlum rašė:

Could we be better off with the same document preserved as e.g PDF?
I don't think the file format matters, and since LO can't open PDF's (or
can it?), I think it's totally OK to have an OpenDocument file. What I don't
like is the way it looks at the moment.

The thing about ODT files opening in an office suite - they are editable
documents. Why does a text editor open a text file? It obviously wants and
calls upon a user to edit it. In this case a document opens that explicitly
says - do not mess with me, I should not be changed. So it is at least funny
if nothing else.

It's opened as read-only, so that's fine with me. You can only edit its copy, and you can do that either way.

Maybe the most appropriate format would be html and the page should open in
a browser. Every OS has one. PDF readers are not present on all
out-of-the-box systems.

Perhaps even better would be opening all that text in a simple textbox in LO's UI. But I don't mind a nice OpenDocument either, it just has to look nice.

Rimas