LO4.2 pdf export embeds all fonts...

users
#1

I've always considered LO (and prior OOo) does an excellent job in pdf
conversion. My pdf files where compact and efficient as I always did these
font substitutions to use the 35 Adobe font:

closely related font (Times NewRoman, Liberation Serif) > Times
closely related font (Arial, Liberation Sans) > Helvetica
closely related font (Courier New, Liberation Mono) > Courier

By doing so, the substituted fonts ARE NOT embedded in the pdf file and the
pdf reader uses the always included Adobe fonts to render the pdf file. The
result was perfect!

Was? Yes, now LO4.2 seems to ALWAYS embed all fonts, even if I don't want
this behavior. I would prefer to have an option not to embed all fonts to
revert to the pre 4.2 behavior. Maybe this option is possible in the
advanced settings, but I didn't find it.

Raymond

#2

You could always use an external PDF file creator. I have CUPS-PDF installed on all my Ubuntu systems as the default printer. On Windows systems, I use doPDF as their default printers.

Personally, I like embedding fonts, so they will read the file exactly as you have it formatted. Sure, font substitution is an option. Yes, Adobe has some good fonts. But do we have to use them "most of the time" as the "default" fonts that are displayed? If I use a Caslon font, DejaVu font, Galliard, Garamond, Liberation, Libertine, OpenDyslexic, Open Sans, or any number of hand writing and script fonts, I expect to have the reader of the PDF file see these used fonts in the document. I choose my fonts for the documents and format it to those fonts. I would not like to see what font substitution would do for some of the fonts I use.

Yes, LO should give you the option on embedding or not. But, if the font is not embedded you cannot "complain" about any formatting issues that come up. I have seen a lot of documents, sent to me, that did not have embedded fonts and their pages were a mess and had to be reedited to make it look good with the fonts I had that were close to what the document used in its creation and not installed on my system.

#3

Hi Raymond, Tim, all

krackedpress wrote

Was? Yes, now LO4.2 seems to ALWAYS embed all fonts, even if I don't want
this behavior. I would prefer to have an option not to embed all fonts to
revert to the pre 4.2 behavior. Maybe this option is possible in the
advanced settings, but I didn't find it.

You could always use an external PDF file creator. I have CUPS-PDF
installed on all my Ubuntu systems as the default printer. On Windows
systems, I use doPDF as their default printers.

Advising to use another program makes sense as a temporary workaround.

If this used to work as expected but doesn't any longer, then it's a bug and
worse, it's a regression and should be handled as such.

Please report this bug at
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=LibreOffice

Cheers,
Pedro

#4

Thanks Pedro for your suggestion.

Strangely I'm unable to create a Bugzilla account! The system didn't reply
to my request...

As for embedding fonts, I usually do documents with a formal look and very
conservative (read usual, easy to read) fonts: Times family for text,
Helvetica family for titles.

Of course, a document using less formal fonts needs to have embedded fonts
and that's what I do. Like Pedro said, it is a regression if the user can't
get the choice to embed a font.

Raymond

#5

Hi :slight_smile:
if you are waiting for a confirmation email then please check your
junk/spam folder as it may have gone in there by mistake. That used
to happen to the confirmation email sent to join these mailing lists

Good luck and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#6

Hi again Raymond

r_ouellette wrote

Strangely I'm unable to create a Bugzilla account! The system didn't reply
to my request...

You should check your Spam mailbox as Tom suggested.

Regarding font embedding I just reported a similar font embedding problem in
ODF files
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75553

However using the example file
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2347109/Font_embedding_in_ODF_1.2_LO414.odt
I can't replicate the PDF export problem you mentioned. Maybe it just occurs
with more complex documents?

Curiously Apache OpenOffice already includes an "Embed standard fonts"
option (unchecked by default, as expected) in the PDF Options when exporting
to PDF...

Maybe someone from LO development can reuse the already existing code?

Cheers,
Pedro

#7

** Reply to message from Pedro <pedlino@gmail.com> on Wed, 26 Feb 2014
17:50:37 -0800 (PST)

LO 4.1.5 still has the "Embed Standard Fonts" option. It is 4.2.1 that took
it out.

Cliff

#8

Hi Cliff, all

Cliff Scott-2 wrote

LO 4.1.5 still has the "Embed Standard Fonts" option. It is 4.2.1 that
took
it out.

Oops. You are absolutely right. I had never noticed that option (because it
is unchecked, as expected)

However exporting a PDF with the simple text

a quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog

A QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

using plain Times New Roman under LO 4.1.5.3 and 4.2.1.1 has exactly the
same result: the file includes a subset of the font (which shouldn't) and
under LO 4.1.5.3 changing "Embed Standard Fonts" to On or Off makes no
difference...

AOO 4.0.1 does exactly the same. It also embeds a subset...

So the problem is not only that the Devs removed the option it's that it
wasn't working correctly in the first place...

All the files created with the above text both in LO and AOO are 37Kbyte in
size while printing to PDF Creator results in a 3Kbyte file... It is quite a
significant difference for such a small document.

So a new bug submission would make sense. If Raimond still can't log in to
Bugzilla I can do that for him (although the log in problem needs to be
solved as well :slight_smile: )

Cheers,
Pedro

#9

** Reply to message from Pedro <pedlino@gmail.com> on Thu, 27 Feb 2014
06:28:39 -0800 (PST)

Pedro,

And interesting enough though in LO 4.1.5 Tagged PDF with the option checked
or not results in the identical file size, Exporting to PDF/A-1a format
results in 200 byte smaller file when trying with my newsletter which is
about 1.3MB in size.

Cliff

#10

embed_test.pdf
<http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4099337/embed_test.pdf>

embed_test_no-subst.pdf
<http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4099337/embed_test_no-subst.pdf>

Using LO 4.1.4.2 Build ID: 0a0440ccc0227ad9829de5f46be37cfb6edcf72 under
Linux Ubuntu Gnome 13.10, I produced the suggested file by Pedro.

a quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog

A QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG

these 2 lines in Times NewRoman 12pt.

The resulting file size is 2.0 kb if I check the substitution replacement
Times NewRoman > Times to Allways and 32 kb if I don't use the substituted
font. In both cases the box "Embed standard fonts" in the pdf options is
unchecked.

The behavior that changed is that the replacement table will allow the
standard font to be embedded no matter what font you use...

#11

Hi Raymond, all

r_ouellette wrote

The resulting file size is 2.0 kb if I check the substitution replacement
Times NewRoman > Times to Allways and 32 kb if I don't use the substituted
font. In both cases the box "Embed standard fonts" in the pdf options is
unchecked.

Where is that option?

I'm not sure I understand the part "The behavior that changed is that the
replacement table will allow the standard font to be embedded no matter what
font you use... " IMO what changed is that you no longer have an *option*
because it was removed...

r_ouellette wrote

I tried again to create an account in bugzilla, no success :frowning: My spam box
is still empty and the filter of my provider (Bell/Sympatico/Hotmail -- I
don't have the choice :frowning: ) seems empty too. So please,Pedro, If you can
post to Bugzilla this regression I would appreciate.

I just tested with my old Hotmail account and the confirmation email is
right there on my Junk box :slight_smile:

I have no problem reporting this for you if it still doesn't work.

Cheers,
Pedro

#12

Hi Cliff

Cliff Scott-2 wrote

And interesting enough though in LO 4.1.5 Tagged PDF with the option
checked
or not results in the identical file size, Exporting to PDF/A-1a format
results in 200 byte smaller file when trying with my newsletter which is
about 1.3MB in size.

Interesting. Because on my Windows XP system, in addition to the absurd
warning (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59271) the file
increases by some 4-5Kbytes (another extra 11-15%)

I seems that the results are not OS independent :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Pedro

#13

<http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4099438/Polices_subst.png>

To be more clear, here are the substitutions I use. The 3 substitutions with
the check mark (on the screenshot) are the ones that should not be embedded
when you create a pdf : Helvetica, Courier and Times are part of the 35
basic pdf fonts. The screenshot is in french: "Toujours" means "Always".

You should have the option to embed or not when you create the pdf file;
that was the case before LO4.2.

#14

Hi :slight_smile:
I got a private message saying that the spam/junk folder HAD been
checked already. It is something that many of us over-look or forget
about so it's good to nudge people jic it is that.

I don't know what else to suggest. If it happened to me i might set
up a new free email account with GMail, Yahoo, or any of the others
and try again. if that did work then i would be left wondering
whether to keep the account and maybe forward it into my main one or
unsubscribe and delete the email account or what. It's not a bad idea
to have a separate account for bug-tracker and mailing lists but it's
just a bit awkward to manage

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#15

r_ouellette wrote

... now LO4.2 seems to ALWAYS embed all fonts, even if I don't want this
behavior. I would prefer to have an option not to embed all fonts to
revert to the pre 4.2 behavior. Maybe this option is possible in the
advanced settings, but I didn't find it.

The 14 standard PostScript fonts are now (under v4.2+) always embedded, as
required by PDF v1.5. I provide some detail here:

http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/30069/pdf-font-embedding-in-libreoffice-42/?answer=30071#post-id-30071

This may be contributing to the observed behaviour, although to what degree
this change affects font substitution, I am uncertain.
Regards, Owen.

#16

Hi Owen, all

Owen Genat wrote

The 14 standard PostScript fonts are now (under v4.2+) always embedded, as
required by PDF v1.5. I provide some detail here:

http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/30069/pdf-font-embedding-in-libreoffice-42/?answer=30071#post-id-30071

This may be contributing to the observed behaviour, although to what
degree this change affects font substitution, I am uncertain.

That would be acceptable if the file was exported as PDF 1.5 but since it is
exported as PDF 1.4 the change doesn't make any sense.

In any case it would be nice to allow the user to select the PDF version and
re-enable the standard font embedding (obviously if the user chooses PDF 1.5
the option to "Embed standard fonts" should be disabled because it is not an
option...)

Regards,
Pedro

#17

I Embed fonts all the time for viewing to other systems.

I did something today that had special "illuminated" style of letters. Think those in early books that were copied by hand or early printing, big and fancy letters.

I use a lot of specialty fonts, like that, in some of my work. They are needed to be embedded into the files, PDF or otherwise, so the people who get them can see the text with the "proper" formatting and fonts.

I do not know about the "14 standard Postscript fonts", since I do not know what those fonts are and things like that. I use TTF and OTF fonts and not Type One fonts. I use a lot of fonts like Liberation, Droid Sans/Serif, Linux Liberation/Biolinum, and other freely downloadable fonts. Sometimes I use the "generic" MS Core fonts that comes with most Linux distros, if you want to install that package. I use a "ton" of specialty fonts in my work. So the "14 standard" fonts may not be any use for me.

Yes, you should be able to have choices for embedding fonts. 1 - embed none, 2 - embed 14 standard font, 3 - embed all fonts used. Also I have seen an option of embedding only the characters of the "special fonts" used in the document and not the whole set, since this will reduce the file size somewhat.

Of course, I seen no place in 4.2.2.1 for the embed font - i.e. all fonts used - option. That is NEEDED for people like me. Right now, I have to use a PDF printer/driver like CUPS-PDF[Linux] and doPDF [Windows] to embed the fonts in my document. Of course, if I wanted to read the document in a landscape format, I am "up the creek" with CUPS since it only creates a portrait formatted page output.

#18

Just ran a test printing in Landscape from LibreOffice Writer Version: 4.1.5.3 on Windows 7 Pro 64bit with "HP Universal Printing PS" driver to Ubuntu 12.04 LTS using CUPS-PDF printer set to "Automatic Orientation".

It generated a Landscape PDF that states 11 x 8.5 in properties.

Are you in linux only?

#19

Well, The last time I tried a landscape page through CUPS-PDF, the file was in Portrait but the page was in Landscape so you have to read it sideways if you wanted to read it through the PDF viewer. Printed page fine, viewed as a file, not fine.

I have it set for automatic orientation. But it does not seem to create a landscape viewable file to read via a PDF viewer. Prints a landscape document just fine, since you are actually printing a landscape page on paper running through the printer in a portrait orientation.

I use
Ubuntu 12.xx to 13.10 and Linux Mint 16 - both mate -- CUPS-PDF printer
Windows XP and Win7[64-bit] -- doPDF for the PDf printer [free]

I have not set my HP printers [laser and wide-format inkjet] up for "Universal PS", but either PDF driver or Level 3 Postscript driver. Same settings with my Canon inkjets.

EXPORT to PDF within LO will create a readable file in the orientation of the document, not the paper path of the printer. So if you have a document that is 11x8.5 due to the content in the page, you can see it properly as a landscape document. CUPS-PDF cannot do that, or so my testing tells me.

SO, that is why I would love to have the option to embed all the used fonts in the document. It solves the output orientation issues that I have with CUPS-PDF. I would like my landscape documents readable in that orientation in a PDF viewer by the people I send the documents too and have all of the special fonts included. Right now I do not have that option. The reader needs to print the landscape document out to read it in the CUPS option or not use the special fonts for the Export option.

See my problem[s]?

I tend not to use my Win7 boot of my laptops, or my laptops at all, for any real document creation and editing. Everything is done on my desktop, which is currently Mint 16. [later it should go to Ubuntu 14.04LTS]. That is where I have all my data, images, etc., stored - on three 2-TB internal drives formatted to Linux's ext3 or ext4 format. [have three USB 2-TB as backup drives formated the same]

So if I went to Win7, I would have to do a lot of saving onto flash drives to do the work on the laptop's Win7 OS boot, or even their Ubuntu 13.xx/14.xx boots. I tend not to move my backup drives from their resting spot near the desktop.

#20

I did some testing and see what you mean.

When printing form Windows 7 to Ubuntu everything is fine. (What I usually do.)
When printing form Ubuntu to itself, no luck (I use this very infrequently.)

I believe Ghostscript is used to generate the PDF file in Debian based linux.
It may be that the call to Ghostscript from LibreOffice does not include page adjustment from the command.

Quote....

* |-dAutoRotatePages=/None| -- retains orientation of each page;
* |-dAutoRotatePages=/All| -- rotates all pages (or none) depending on a kind of "majority decision";
* |-dAutoRotatePages=/PageByPage| -- auto-rotates pages individually.

From

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3089773/how-to-change-page-orientation-of-pdf-ghostscript-or-postsscript-solution-need

Although the following is in reference to Windows, the hand-off may be the similar.

Quote...
Ghostscript attempts to set the Windows printer page size and orientation to match that expected by Ghostscript, but doesn't always succeed. It uses this algorithm:

1. If the requested page size matches one of the Windows standard page
    sizes +/- 2mm, request that standard size.
2. Otherwise if the requested page size matches one of the Windows
    standard page sizes in landscape mode, ask for that standard size in
    landscape.
3. Otherwise ask for the page size by specifying only its dimensions.
4. Merge the requests above with the defaults. If the printer driver
    ignores the requested paper size, no error is generated: it will
    print on the wrong paper size.
5. Open the Windows printer with the merged orientation and size.

The Ghostscript physical device size is updated to match the Windows printer physical device.

From http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/doc/AFPL/8.00/Devices.htm

Regretfully I do not know enough to assist further in linux.