Mailing list signature cutline

users
#1

Hello,

I just posted my first post (this is my second post) to this list, and the
message copy I received back from the list has been modified and list info
appended to the message...as many lists do. That's okay, but the appended
informaton is preceded by a signature cutline thereby overriding my own
cutline and signature. This means that when I reply to messages I will have
to remove my own signature from the messages...which defeats the point of
the cutline. Surely this is a mistake? Perhaps the list information could be
modified so that it is appended to the messages without the addition of a
cutline.

Thankyou.

#2

no, you wont have to remove a thing,
Thunderbird will did it for /me...

#3

Hello Luuk,

... This means that when I reply to messages I will have to remove my own
signature from the messages...which defeats the point of the cutline.
[...snip..]

...and you said:

no, you wont have to remove a thing,
Thunderbird will did it for /me...

Actually, I didn't mean to type 'my own signature...' (had a brain fart) but
just 'signatures'. Doh! Sorry for the confusion.

So, what in fact I meant was when replying to a list message the signature
of the person you are replying to is included above the appended cutline so
it is treated as part of the message body and is therefore included in the
reply. It's pretty standard for email clients to treat everything below the
last cutline as the signature, that's the point of it, so anything below the
'dash dash space' is not quoted when replying.

I do not use Thunderbird, but I don't see how it would behave any
differently to the email client I use (The Bat!) in this respect...but I
don't know. In my email client the signature (everything below the cutline)
is highlighted in a different colour to the message body to differentiate
it. On this list the list information is highlighted instead because of the
appended cutline. It's hardly the end of the world or anything, but...

#4

Thunderbird removes everything after the first sig delimiter (-- ). In this post it removed both your signature and the additional LibreOffice info. Everything after both sig delimiters is in a different colour in Thunderbird.

The Bat is a pretty basic email client lacking in many features.

Larry

#5

Hello Larry,

The Bat is a pretty basic email client lacking in many features.

Yeah, and I'm a Madagascan fruit bat! Good grief, where on earth did you get
that notion? I think you have been seriously misinformed sir. The Bat! is by
far one of the best featured email clients available. It may not be Open
Source, but so what. I tried Thunderbird 18 months ago it did not compare in
any way to the feature set in The Bat!

Good heavens, I'm defending an email client. Better that than misinformation
about it I suppose.

#6

But, as you pointed out, it does not recognize two sig delimiters in a message.

Larry

#7

Hello Larry,

But, as you pointed out, it does not recognize two sig delimiters in a
message.

Actually, I'm afraid you misread something because I didn't point that out.
I pointed out that the list appended a cutline to the end of the message.
The Bat! behaves as you would expect a proper, well developed email client
to behave and recognises the last signature delimiter in the message as the
signature boundary; that's exactly where it should be! The fact that
Thunderbird behaves differently in this respect doesn't translate to
'Thunderbird is a superior email client'. On the contrary in fact.
Furthermore, the issue wasn't about whose client was better than the other,
heaven's above, and it really isn't about that now either...and my email
client isn't defective because it does what it is supposed to!

The real point is that the list subscription information that is appended to
messages does not constitute a signature, and so should therefore not be
appended to messages preceded by a cutline. A simple series of dashes or an
continuous underscore above the list information to separate it would
suffice and wouldn't interfere with the author's signature. As I said, not
the end of the world but...

Please feel free to email me off list if you want to further discuss email
clients, but I don't think a Thunderbird vs The Bat! and everything else is
what this topic is about. Well, I certainly didn't intend it to be about
that.

All the best

#8

Larry Gusaas <larry.gusaas@gmail.com> writes:

The Bat! is by
far one of the best featured email clients available.

But, as you pointed out, it does not recognize two sig delimiters in a message.

I wonder if there is a "right way" to do it. Maybe different clients are
behaving differently just because of the way their cutting was
implemented, and not because someone thought about how to deal with two
signatures in a row.

Gnus is not removing both signatures, but changing that is probably just
a hack away.

#9

The real point is that the list subscription information that is appended to
messages does not constitute a signature, and so should therefore not be
appended to messages preceded by a cutline. A simple series of dashes or an
continuous underscore above the list information to separate it would
suffice and wouldn't interfere with the author's signature. As I said, not
the end of the world but...

Many lists I subscribe to include subscription information preceded by a sig delimiter. This keeps the info from being repeated multiple times in the replies to the posts. In a long thread you could have the same info 10 or more times in one reply.

A lot of people do not use signatures. The appended info would not be deleted if it did not include a sig delimiter. Thunderbird deletes everything after the first sig delimiter in a post. It seems that The Bat only recognizes the last sig delimiter.

You are the first person I have seen complain about this on any of the lists I follow.

Please feel free to email me off list if you want to further discuss email
clients, but I don't think a Thunderbird vs The Bat! and everything else is
what this topic is about. Well, I certainly didn't intend it to be about

My apologies. I misread something on The Bat's website. I took "The Bat! Home Edition ... it is an ideal solution for common users who do not demand extra features." to mean it was a basic e-mail program. I can't check it out, however, since it is Windoze only.

Larry

#10

Hello Larry,

My apologies. I misread something on The Bat's website. I took "The Bat!
Home Edition ... it is an ideal solution for common users who do not
demand extra features." to mean it was a basic e-mail program. I can't
check it out, however, since it is Windoze only.

FWIW, I use The Bat! Professional 4.2 on Windows, not Home. You could always
try running TB! under Wine if you're curious; it's a free download. I never
tried it under Wine. I just used Evolution.

#11

________________________________
From: PLO <protect.libreoffice@inboxshield.co.uk>
To: users@libreoffice.org
Sent: Fri, 3 June, 2011 0:18:05
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Mailing list signature cutline

Hello Larry,

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:04:40 -0600 (your time) you said:

My apologies. I misread something on The Bat's website. I took "The Bat!
Home Edition ... it is an ideal solution for common users who do not
demand extra features." to mean it was a basic e-mail program. I can't
check it out, however, since it is Windoze only.

FWIW, I use The Bat! Professional 4.2 on Windows, not Home. You could always
try running TB! under Wine if you're curious; it's a free download. I never
tried it under Wine. I just used Evolution.

Hi :slight_smile:
Apparently it can be made to work in Wine but i am not sure how easily it can be
set-up.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#12

Hello Larry,

But, as you pointed out, it does not recognize two sig delimiters in a
message.

Actually, I'm afraid you misread something because I didn't point that out.
I pointed out that the list appended a cutline to the end of the message.
The Bat! behaves as you would expect a proper, well developed email client

The Bat behave as YOU would like it to behave....

to behave and recognises the last signature delimiter in the message as the
signature boundary; that's exactly where it should be! The fact that
Thunderbird behaves differently in this respect doesn't translate to

Thunderbird behave like I (and some others :wink: would like it to behave

'Thunderbird is a superior email client'. On the contrary in fact.

I'm not questioning superiority :wink:

Furthermore, the issue wasn't about whose client was better than the other,
heaven's above, and it really isn't about that now either...and my email
client isn't defective because it does what it is supposed to!

The real point is that the list subscription information that is appended to
messages does not constitute a signature, and so should therefore not be
appended to messages preceded by a cutline. A simple series of dashes or an
continuous underscore above the list information to separate it would
suffice and wouldn't interfere with the author's signature. As I said, not
the end of the world but...

i googled a bit, and found:
http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/signatur.html
The question of a proper signature can cause perhaps more arguments than
any other single netiquette issue (besides spam). Superficially, and
technically the main issues would seem clear:
* No more than *four* lines. Occasionally called the "4-line McQuary
limit".
* Use "-- " as the beginning marker.

Unfortunatly there is nothing about having two signatures in one
mailmessage...

Please feel free to email me off list if you want to further discuss email
clients, but I don't think a Thunderbird vs The Bat! and everything else is
what this topic is about. Well, I certainly didn't intend it to be about
that.

no, but thanks, i'm not really interested in a discussion about email
clients, because they should simply do what u users expects from them.

All the best

thanks...

#13

Hello Luuk,

Please feel free to email me off list if you want to [...snip...]

no, but thanks, i'm not really interested in a discussion about email
clients, because they should simply do what u users expects from them.

Actually, Luuk, I didn't invite you to email off list; the reply was to
Larry, and I was just being polite ;-). IOW, I'm not at all interested in
_any_ debate about whose email client is the 'greatest'. Couldn't care less!

The fact remains that the appended list information isn't a signature...it
therefore shouldn't be preceded by a signature delimiter (cutline).

#14

It has already been explained to you why it is there...

Many, many people do NOT use a signature delimiter in their signature -
this is placed there to make SURE it is treated as a signature (ie, NOT
included in quoted text in replies)...

It isn't hard to understand this.

Fix your client (so it doesn't ignore multiple sig delimiters), switch
clients, or live with it.

#15

Hello Tanstaafl,

It has already been [...snip...]

Nope...

Many, many people do NOT use [...snip...]

Still nope...

It isn't [...snip...]

Still nope...

Fix your client [...snip...]

And nope! Man alive, and there was me hoping that something useful was
coming, but nope, you actually managed to say absolutely nothing
constructive whatsoever! Well done! You obviously have a skill there.

The fact remains, the list information is not a signature. A cutline doesn't
therefore need to precede it. Further, it is evident from replies to this
list that adding it before the list info does not prevent people who don't
use a sig delimiter from including sigs in there replies. So it's a nonsense
argument.

And finally, in reply to your 'response', you obviously didn't read the
thread because I already stated that it wasn't the end of the world or
anything:

#16

And nope! Man alive, and there was me hoping that something useful was
coming, but nope, you actually managed to say absolutely nothing
constructive whatsoever! Well done! You obviously have a skill there.

Nope...

But you obviously have a skill for ignoring reality...

Whatever floats your boat...

The fact remains, the list information is not a signature.

It is a LIST signature, not the SENDERS siganture - but yes, it IS a
signature.

A cutline doesn't therefore need to precede it.

Yes, it DOES.

Further, it is evident from replies to this
list that adding it before the list info does not prevent people who don't
use a sig delimiter from including sigs in there replies. So it's a nonsense
argument.

Nope...

Unless, of course, you are using a BROKEN emailer that ignores the RFC
that signatures should not be included in quoted text.

I use Thunderbird, which does NOT include it quoted text...

So, whatever gets you off! BTW. Perhaps we could mutually blacklist each
other because I am not at all interested in reading your reply (replies).

Whatever floats your boat...

#17

Oops, did i do someting wrong?
My apologies... :wink: