Migrating from Windows; take it slow

Hi :slight_smile:
Ok, so i have posted 'a few' anti-MS posts but not everyone is ready to suddenly jump into the alien world of the scary sounding GNu&Linux or unix-based OSes.  Windows is supplied on almost every machine bought anywhere in the world so why change at all?!

If you have realised why then how to go about it?

Many first-timers fail because they try to "burn their bridges" and completely suddenly switch without much planning, or perhaps with too much planning.

A frequently successfully route that many have followed (often as a 2nd attempt to get into it) is often found to be to first familiarised yourself with the programs that run on both Windows and Gnu&Linux: programs such as Firefox (instead of IE), Thunderbird or Evolution instead of Outlook, Gimp instead of Photoshop, LibreOffice instead of MS Office.  That way once you arrive at "the big switch" you have familiar 'friends' on your desktop and in forums/mailing-lists.  Documentation can help pull you through too.

A good next step is to resurrect some ancient machine from a junk heap or cupboard and try as a "Live Cd" (booting straight from the Cd without installign anything) and then next is to install as a dual-boot.  Chances are that first time you try to do a dual-boot it goes wrong even though it's the default for almsot every distro and basically requires you do the equivalent of just clicking "Next".  If it's an old machine anyway then you don't lose much AND you get to learn how to do it properly before risking yoru main machine.

I was really quite keen  but oddly reluctant to escape from MS but it took me about 2 years between the time i got my neighbour to install a dual-boot of Mandriva alongside my Windows.  At first i booted mostly into Windows but about 1/month might boot into Mandriva by mistake.  by the end of the 2 years it had become more and more often and more deliberately especially after i found a decent game and then found i really could work from it too.

To be fair i had an impression that Gnu&Linux was like Unix and therefore big, scary and all based on the command-line.  I'm still a little intimidated by the command-line so i was glad to find that actually even back then Mandriva was almost entirely point&click.  Then Wolvix and Ubuntu seemed to take that further and now i am mostly in Ubuntu nearly all the time but even now i do use Windows from time-to-time.

Once i had made the switch i found myself getting irrationally angry about all the odd things that i had been forced to do unnecessarily over the years to maintain Windows.  A bit like a hostage released from captivity after long-term imprisonment.  All the slow-downs, antivirus, sudden forced reboots, forced updates, pop-ups grabbing focus and generally being slave to the machine.  All of which vanished with Gnu&Linux (weirdly the grabbing focus thing seems to have been added to Ubuntu since then).  i became obsessed with freeing people who didn't want to be freed.  I guess that is roughly where Andreas is now with Base but has been stuck there a while.  Really there is no need.

Nowadays i can mostly sit back and just laugh at the ridiculous things people put themselves through with Windows and then claim that Windows is easier as though they have tried anything else when they clearly haven't even picked up an iAnything.

It's not easy to avoid trying to help especially when a little help can often go a long way.

The mistake a lot of people make when they are new to Gnu&Linux is trying to force other people to use it.  This earns a bad reputation and really there is no need for it.  if people would rather dig with a spoon than a shovel then let them.  Just smile wisely and move on to help a person that does appreciate it.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

I went into using Ubuntu 9.10 for my default system when I bought my current desktop. I still use 10.04 on it. I had run other version of Linux before going to Ubuntu, but Ubuntu was the only Live CD/DVD that allow the sound system to work properly on my HP AMD64 CPU laptop that I used for testing. I did not have this desktop then, but an old IBM server and a Dell laptop, along with the HP laptop.

I still use Windows from time to time. The HP Laptop is back running XP/pro [32-bit] and my Dell laptop dual boots Vista [32 bit] and 64 bit Ubuntu 12.04 with MATE as its desktop environment so it works closely like my [generic custom built quad] desktop's 10.04/GNOME 2.xx system.

There are some software I still have not found a good Linux version for and there are some USB hardware that I have not found a good Linux driver for. So I still need Windows once in a while. I have people that need help with their Windows systems, mostly laptops, so I need to be able to boot up a Windows system to help them out. One day I hope to replace the Vista OS with Win7 on my dual boot Dell laptop. My HP laptop does not have enough free hard drive space to do a dual booting system.

ALSO
I have 2 USB drives for backing up my desktop, and also sharing media file with my Blu-ray player and other systems that require Windows-based drive formats. SO, I need a Windows system to defrag those USB drives. I have a 1 TB and a 2 TB USB external drive, so they can easily become fragmented when I update them with my files/folders that need to be backed up - I copy the file onto the external drives - from my desktop to the external ones. I have a 1 TB and a 2 TB internal drives on my Ubuntu desktop.

SO I still need Windows for some things.

YET, with using Ubuntu [GNOME or MATE] for several years now as my default OS, I still do not know all the ins and outs I use to know with the Windows systems. I still have not figured out all of the things I could do with my XP or Vista systems. I still am not completely comfortable with the Terminal and all of its uses. I know there are many, many, more things I could do with the Terminal that I never really learned. I still forget how to install LO on a Ubuntu system - sudo dpkg -i *.deb - sometimes. There are install options and other commands that people using Ubuntu, and other Linux distros, know how to do much better than I. I do not get into Ubuntu as much as I use to in the early days when I supported XP and Vista systems for others. I do not do even half of the things I use to do in the late '90's to mid 2000's with a computer. So I never really learned how to do some of the things I could do with my Linux systems.

SO
Anyone who really wants to learn how to use Linux as a replacement for Windows, try dual booting a system if you do not have a spare one to try Linux with as its only OS.

I started using Linux for the simple reason that I needed a package to convert AVI and MPEG video files into a TV DVD movie disc. My Windows software crashed and I could not longer get it working even with a re-install. So I found that the Linux software DeVeDe worked well. Now it comes with a Windows version, but not when I started using it on an P4 CPU IBM server made in 2000 and burned it on a USB DVD burner.

That was when I started looking at all the free software that Linux offered to its users. With a fixed income and the need to get a lot of different software, and many costing a lot for my Windows computers, I decided to look into using Linux - Ubuntu 9.10 for a few months till 10.04 came out - when I had the money to buy a quad CPU desktop.

Now I get to learn a new Linux-based OS - Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich - since now I have a 7-inch tablet costing about $100. It is not the best 7 inch tablet on the market, but it was what I could afford on my fixed income.

So, the short is:
Linux is a good OS to use, but you may still need to have a Windows system from time to time.

Another reason for keeping a Windows system available - testing:
K3b burns a great data disc, but the default "Windows and Linux" disc format does not work well for making a web-based DVD. It messes with the file names sometimes. I found that out the hard way when I tested the DVD on my Windows system. Now I use "Rock Ridge" file system for my DVD. There are other "default" CD/DVD burners, but K3b was the only one that I could easily define the CD's / DVD's file system. So I found out that way, that I needed to keep a Windows system to check that my DVDs will work on Windows. I do not have a MacOSX system, so I cannot check that OS out.

Hi :slight_smile:
Ok, so i have posted 'a few' anti-MS posts but not everyone is ready to
suddenly jump into the alien world of the scary sounding GNu&Linux or
unix-based OSes. Windows is supplied on almost every machine bought
anywhere in the world so why change at all?!

<SNIP>

On that note, Some here might enjoy my now ancient LXer article on this
subject:
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/47135/index.html

I was sharing my experience of being without Windows for a full year back
in 2005. I agree with Tom and KrackedPress on the general gist of changing
systems. Take it slow and easy. I did. There is much less to worry about
with hardware issues these days, but the adjustment to little differences
in the desktops can be frustrating for some, until they are actually
adjusted. :slight_smile:

My wife is now becoming more of a Linux user herself. It has taken her a
while, but she is beginning to catch on. She is a complete computer
novice, and had only a little experience with Windows before we met. She
has this feeling of Windows as somehow more "user friendly", which was the
opposite of my experience. At first she was excited, and later grew a bit
frustrated. Now she seems to be enjoying her system a bit more.

I grew increasingly frustrated with Windows over the years and finally
managed to "kick the habit". Even though I experience frustrations with
GNU & Linux-based systems, I prefer those frustrations over my experiences
with Windows any day of the week.

I would add that, if you are considering migrating a business, church or
non-profit organization from whatever to any of the GNU & Linux-based
systems, I really recommend hiring someone with some experience in
migrations (or at least knows how to go about it) to help you think through
the process. There are a great many details that need to be worked
through. It might cost a leg, but that's better than an arm and two legs -
not to mention the mutiny from users when the migration falls apart. A
slow, gradual approach is best here as well - albeit even more so.

Regards,
Don

G'day.

The other option for the odd trip back to windows is virtualisation.
Mostly, you can tell the system to let windows use a device as if you
had booted into windows

Regards

Keith Bainbridge
PO Box 324
BELMONT Vic 3216 Australia
+61 (0)408 522 706

keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com

Visualization also has the added benefit of a shared clipboard and being able to work on the same data at the same time (well nearly).

Hi :slight_smile:
Virtualisation is good but if it's a question of drivers for a particular piece of hardware then it might not work.  It might, but it if the underlaying OS can't see it then i don't see how the virtual machine that is sitting on top of that OS is supposed to see it.

It is possible to use emulators or even better is WINE (stands for "Wine Is Not an Emulator") but that is a lot more sophisticated and hence slightly harder to set-up initially for some programs.

The worst way around is to have a Gnu&Linux in a virtual machine on Windows because then the stability of the unix-based systems is sitting on top of the flakiness of Windows so you end-up adding the worst of each OS.  A dual-boot means each is directly on bare metal so it gives a fair comparison.  Windows inside a virtual machine inside Gnu&Linux sounds like it's going to be ver stable too.

Ubuntu and Puppy and possibly a few others have a magic way of installing inside Windows.  It avoids 1 of the layers between bare-metal and the OS because it avoids the virtual machine bit.  The Ubuntu magic way is called the "Wubi".  Again you are adding the worst of each OS and in addition the "drives" are really compressed files but it's fast and easy to install and many people keep using such things for years with no problems.  Obviously it's not made by Microsoft and so every once in a while someone has troubles with Windows trying to reject it but that is fairly rare.  We used to get about 1 question per month that was specifically about the Wubi and solved by moving to a dual-boot.

So, there are tons of different ways of avoiding wiping Windows and that seems to be the best way to make the migration much more gentle and less stressful.  Throwing yourself to the lions is the fastest way to learn to deal with lions (or die) but there is no real need to create so much stress. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

The real problem for many people is the hardware and software needs.

I still have some USB hardware that does not work on Linux. No working drivers.

Then there is the problem of having to use certain software, for work or pleasure, that you either cannot find a good Linux alternative or you MUST use. There is the option of WINE, but some software seems not to want to work under that. Personally, I have never gotten WINE to work for me, but that is just me.

I made a personal choice and used Ubuntu when I bought my last "default" desktop. I had to adjust to some of the software though. I still have the Windows laptops [single or dual boot] to deal with the need Windows software. My Epson printer prints on DVD media, but I have not found any replacement for its Windows software to do that work. There is a graphic program that I bought for Windows that works much easier that GIMP, so if I have trouble with an image/graphics, I need to work on it with that Windows software. BUT, most most of the work I do, Ubuntu and the free software for it works for me.

So, even though I use Ubuntu as my default system, I still need to keep Windows around for those things that I cannot find drivers and software version for in Linux.

Even version of Linux differ.
The scanning part of my Epson printer does not work at all with Ubuntu 10.04, but will work on 12.04. I updated the software and drivers I use for it on my 10.04 system, but still not luck. Something in 12.04 makes it work that I seem not to be able to get with 10.04.

Hi

I can offer another option, which I find very satisfactory. My previous
laptop had windows vista and was unsatisfactory. When I bought a new
computer (with Windows 7), I formatted the disk on the old computer and
installed Linux. I tried 2 or 3 different linux packages and since my
computer was weak, I settled for Fedora which seems to use less resources
than Ubuntu.

The computer used to get very hot with Vista, but behaves much better with
Linux.

I use both laptops in parallel, but tend to use the Linux more.

Chaim

Hi :slight_smile:
That sounds the perfect way to try it.

Tim (Webmaster at Kracked Press) made a good point about trying LiveCds to just test-drive various distros.  Trying a few is really ideal.

Ubuntu might be a good one to start with but it is designed to be comparable with the latest Windows so it is often more heavy and bloated than other distros.  Fedora is quite good because it also tries to be quite plug&play but it's often the experimental cutting-edge and used as the test-bed for trying apps ahead of other distros (well, ahead of Redhat at least).  Anyway the best thing is to try a few distros to see what works best for you on your machine and then install it.  All distros cover the middle-ground and a wide-spread of different machines but each distro seems slightly better at certain wacky combinations of real-world machines.  Does anyone really have a 'typical' machine in a 'normal' set-up??

I really wish Windows had an equivalent of the LiveCd session that almost every distro seems to have these days.  I think if i did internet banking i would want to always do it from a LiveCd and thus leave no trace of it on which-ever machine.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

LiveCD/DVD is the only way to see as many distros as possible to figure out which one may be best for you. Even though there are limits on what you can do with a LiveCD, it was the only way I knew of, back then, to really decide which version of Linux, and desktop environment I wanted to use.

As for Banking and other things on Windows, there are "secure" browsing apps that will not leave any traces. There are even ones that will hide who you are from the web sites through a portal service where you can browse in safety knowing the web sites will get no info from your system, since they only see what the service lets them see - false stuff. I do not remember where you can get these services anymore, but in the mid 2000's I saw a few of them when I was looking for free services to help with Windows security problems.

Back to Windows to Linux. . . .

Well, I remember the days when I had to try different version of Linux via a Windows VM system. Back then Mandrake, Red Hat, and others tried in that classroom environment. That is when I decided that Linux might be something to try out on a "spare" computer. All I had in those days were P4 based systems running 333MHz to 500MHz for CPUs.

Now it is much easier to see a lot of different distros, as long as you have the bandwidth to download .iso files of their LiveCDs or Live DVDs. I think I still have about 5 or 10 different distro and desktop environment combinations on Live "media" in my software drawer. That drawer had mostly Windows software and the media I got with my computers, printers, and other hardware, but I keep Linux related CDs and DVDs there as well. It is a 36" by 18" by 8" and it is stuffed.

But, for now, if you are a Windows user, I really believe that you take it slow and keep both your Windows system and a Linux system going at the same time. If you have the hard drive space, a dual boot option seems a good one when you do not have a spare system. I use a Dell Laptop with Vista as my dual booting system. I installed Ubuntu 10.04 on it, then upgraded it to 12.04 a few months ago, but decided I did not like the Unity/tablet style of desktop and added MATE desktop environment to it. If you like using Ubuntu 10.04's GNOME 2.x desktop, this works better than any GNOME option that 12.04 comes with. MATE works as a 12.04 replacement for the type of desktop I got use to with my desktop, which I still run 10.04 on.

The big issue for most people who go from Windows to Linux, is the lack of drivers for some older hardware [dedicated drivers for very specific hardware] that use USB or are specialty cards. Then their may be problems with drivers for the most up-to-date printers and their extra non-printing functions. Epson printer/scanners have problems with the scanner part for some distro versions. HP seems to work the best for Printer and Scanner options for Linux systems, or at least in my case.

So the big issue with some people will be finding a distro that works with all their hardware. Live media version of a Linux version does help there. If your hardware works then and there, you are set. My HP laptop had problems finding a distro that would work with its sound system. That was in the days of Ubuntu 9.04, and that was the only LiveCD version that worked with that laptop's audio system. HP Pavilion zv6123 AMD64 Athlon powered laptop. I no longer need it to be my Linux system, so it is back to XP/pro and it is used as my primary laptop I take to users who need help with their Windows systems. I have a faster laptop, Dell, but I rather not take it if I can.

Hi :slight_smile:
I am actually having a lot of trouble with Windows Xp right now trying to get the drivers for an onboard ethernet port.  Ubuntu picked it up right away but Xp claims there is no spoon (oops, i mean connection)

Often if 1 distro can pick it up and another can't then it's quite possible to get the thing working on any distro but it helps to find a forum where someone can help.  Also if a Windows driver does exist then it should be possible to use "ndiswrapper" to use that Windows driver in whichever Gnu&Linux distro you are trying to work on.  Again it helps to have some forum help.  Perhaps
http://www.linuxquestions.org

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

omega
  The
Omega sector
America's Last
Line of
Defense

*So install virtual box in LINUX and add the guest additions then add the extended pack and you can run or use any thing from inside windows I use it to run all kinds of junk not YET in Linux like the drives for ADS Instant video transfer from the TV to the computer and use Pinnacle Studios to make movies with Linux see's the item and windows runs it . .

Hi :slight_smile:
I meant to say earlier that often (although probably not in this case) there is usually something somewhere in Gnu&Linux-land that does do exactly what.  The problem most people have is finding it and it's forum or mailing-list. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

omega
  The
Omega sector
America's Last
Line of
Defense

*Virtual box is found by typing in Virtual Box into search engine and click on the one which says Download it is by Oracle and get the right one for the O/S you have . . . I have run all kinds of stuff from inside of virtual Box even a USB thing from sprint for getting on the internet plug it in and run and that was from Linux and let windows use the conection Linux makes running windows seem hard
I use Ubuntu 11.04 . . I started with10.10 VERY STABLE version and then
upgraded to 11.04 I am not going beyond this version as they have the floating Icons and it take 2 more clicks to get a program open than with Gnome Classic Desktop
Until they fix the next versions to have a Gnome Desktop I am not going to even recommend them any more . . Mint and Fallback are piss poor fixes for a Gnome Classic desktop . .

Excellent post.

One of the best "advocacy-from-experience" I've read in recent times.

Thank you Tom!

G'day

Hang on a minute, wubi is dual-booting. The difference is that wubi
installs linux into a file on the windows drive, this 'saving' the
dangers involved in partitioning. With some difficulty you can set the
linux document directories outside of the linux file, so they can be
shared. But it is no-where near virtualisation.

Can't speak on Puppy's method

Regards

Keith Bainbridge
PO Box 324
BELMONT Vic 3216 Australia
+61 (0)408 522 706

keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com

I use MATE for my desktop on Ubuntu 12.04. It is the closest desktop I have found to the 10.04 "classic GNOME" desktop environment. It works for me better than Mint.

I do not know about "Fallback" since that name has not come up before, but I may have seen it referenced by a different name.

I use 10.04 as my default desktop, on my quad desktop. I have a Vista laptop that I dual booted for Ubuntu 10.04 and then upgraded it to 12.04 to see how it worked. I did not like the default desktop environments, so I installed MATE on it for the default desktop environment. I like it, but it has some of the applications in a different location in the menu system on the top panel.

When I fix a monitor/video issue with my desktop system, I will upgrade it to 12.04 and MATE. Right now it seems that 11.x/12.x wants to default to the maximum resolution of the video card and not what the monitor can do. I may put a lower resolution card into it and do the upgrade, then go back to using the on-board higher resolution video card. The best solution would be buy the 1080p monitor, since that is what the video card can do as its max resolution. Maybe next month or two I will be able to buy one on my fixed income.

<snip>

I use Ubuntu 11.04 . . I started with10.10 VERY STABLE version and then
upgraded to 11.04 I am not going beyond this version as they have the floating Icons and it take 2 more clicks to get a program open than with Gnome Classic Desktop
Until they fix the next versions to have a Gnome Desktop I am not going to even recommend them any more . . Mint and Fallback are piss poor fixes for a Gnome Classic desktop . .

*

Hi :slight_smile:
I meant to say earlier that often (although probably not in this case) there is usually something somewhere in Gnu&Linux-land that does do exactly what. The problem most people have is finding it and it's forum or mailing-list.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

From: Lynne Stevens <jackie40d@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Migrating from Windows; take it slow
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 18:26

<snip>

With the dual booting in separate partitions, like I use for Ubuntu/Vista on my laptop, I can share the files from Windows partition to the Linux one, but not the other way around. So if you take and keep all your data files on the Windows partition, you still can use them, like you do with a second hard drive, on your Linux install. That is what I do, mostly, for that dual booting system. That saves hard drive space.

The only time I used Puppy was on a system that was really slow. That system is now in my parts box. I really do not know much about what Puppy is like now.

As for using Linux inside a Windows partition via the WUBI option, I would not go that way. IT may work for people to really get into Linux without doing the partitioning, but is still based in the Windows environment with all its problems with defragging and such. I say try a Live CD or DVD and then go the dual booting with the separate partitioning option.

On command line:
sudo apt-get install gnome
      Using this, I have installed gnome classic on Ubuntu 11.10 and 12.04. I have done this on a 64 bit tower and 32 bit laptop.
      There is one more step:
Log out, select gnome classic as the desktop environment, and log in.
      So, I have gnome classic.

--Dan

webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Normally this is a discussion I would love to be part of. I have been really swamped, so this is a short summary. I've been using Ubuntu for three plus years. I've been through versions 8.10, 9.04, 9.10, 10.04, 10.10, 11.04, 11.10, and now 12.04. I've seen very significant advances in that period of time. I use Unity, and quite honestly like it. I had been planning try Linux and migrate from Windows for some time before I did the 8.10 install. I chose Ubuntu because I had read good things about it, and figured it had a large enough user base and ecosystem, I could find help to resolve problems. I was using Firefox, Thunderbird, and OpenOffice on Windows. I did set up a dual boot, but searched for replacement Linux programs to cover things I needed other than Firefox, Thunderbird, and OpenOffice. I've ended up running Quicken and Dreamweaver in Wine, as well as a small batch photo sorting and renaming program, and a batch thumbnail/resizing program. I found Gimp to be confusing until I found a Gimp light tutorial. I've progressed from there, and really like Gimp now. When I first installed Ubuntu, I had this great fear what if it won't boot, would it crash, was it reliable? Since using it for three plus years, I really feel the Windows world is missing out on a great operating system. I still need to do a few things in Windows, but really hate to boot into Windows. I've installed Ubuntu on about 25 computers belonging to myself, family, friends, and co-workers. It is extremely rare for someone to call me to help them with a problem. I've had minimal issues with hardware problems.

Don