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Can you go into the properties to turn off the auto-fills? -
that's always been my solution.
[see further comments interspersed below]
Can you go into the properties to turn off the auto-fills? -
that's always been my solution.
True enough. But my point is it's set up to work oddly.
1. The auto-fill and other "aides" in MSO make it much HARDER to construct formula fields in Excel.
[if you're able to turn off those 'auto's then you should be able to work as you desire]
Actually, it's more than the auto-fill. The biggest problem is that if the formula doesn't meet MSO's standards, you can't leave it in place to work on later. I've had formulas which took me days to work out, and if I can't leave them in place even when faulty, then I have to re-create them each time. When they are so terribly long, with many layers of nested functions, losing them is a disaster. Yet Excel prevents you from saving them unless they "work." BAH!
2. The "smart" text select system,
[I'm not sure I understand but if you're attempting to copy, or move, then paste elsewhere, then there must be a 'bug' in the system
]
It's a bit specific, and not a bug (it has behaved this way for many releases and is, I think, intended as a function, though it acts more like a bug to me). Yes, it's copy and move. Take this paragraph text and copy to MSO. Then highlight one sentence from before the first letter to the last. It will highlight not just the sentence intended, but also the proceeding period. At least that's how it works with my two-spaces between sentence style (which is the original standard for all typing, which MSO has chosen to dictate is no longer necessary, but which really does help to define sentence and paragraph structure IMHO).
3. Biggest frustration (and I've heard talk of this but not experienced it until last few days) - I've been saving a ton of small spreadsheets as CSV to move into a database that requires CSV file types. But if I have to open them to re-edit, about half of them say they are the "wrong" file type (extension is .csv, but Excel thinks they are SYLK). They open fine, but Excel, which moments before had saved the file as CSV, now thinks it's SYLK. HTF does excel NOT know its own file type?
[haven't a clue here]
Yes, and that's the point. Excel apparently hasn't a clue either. Take a spreadsheet file, save as CSV (the Excel version, not the plain text or Mac version), then open again with Excel. Roughly 50% of the times Excel fails to open these. I don't have a clue what's going on, but it seems like Excel should understand the format that it just saved the file to, so that it can re-open it. Especially for something as simple as a CSV file. Note too that I tried to open another CSV file today, slightly different situation, and Excel chose to ignore the CSV format and open it as if it were one column/field of data, ignoring the commas and quotes delineating the different fields.
Rant done. Just thought I'd share specific frustrations with LO users. To be fair, there are a few minor things I've appreciated in MSO, but the frustrations are legion.
Dover, NH 03820
[very pretty area - especially in the colourful fall]
Indeed! SNOWY and cold now though (which is good if you're willing to get out in it as I am).
Hello,
I thought I should add to the rant:
If you think Microsoft Excel not being able to import formats it exports is bad, consider Microsoft's disastrous "OpenXML" standards. Notice I said standards, not standard. .docx, .pptx, and other files with x at the end are stored in the Microsoft OpenXML format. There are three different standards--for the same file type! Depending on the operating system and Microsoft Office version, a different XML standard is used. This can cause a .docx file, for example, not to render correctly in Microsoft Word 2013 if it were saved using 2010; even the operating system is a factor in which XML standard is used. So, sometimes, Microsoft Office can't open Microsoft Office files. Not to mention the extra features that don't work, no one uses, and takes up valuable disk space, such as PDF Reflow. When will Microsoft realize that you can't "reflow" a PDF? The implementation for each OpenXML standard is nearly 6,000 pages long! So, it really doesn't do what Microsoft said it would do; they made the system so complex to try to force more people to using Microsoft Office, and now their products can't read files.
Regards,
xmlhttprequest.open@gmail.com
I have no experience with M$O specifically, and have no interest in making excuses for its failings, but with those s.sheets that I do use, "all" you have to do in this situation is put a quote at the start of the formula, thereby making it text. The formula should then be preserved as text, and can be saved as such, until you want to work on it again; removing the quote makes it back into formula. Isn't that a reasonable work-around for their unreasonable default action?
OK, to this and other recent posts, please note that my intent wasn't to open a rant-fest. I have found myself wondering about the claims about file structure being a problem even for MSO itself. My original post was intended to provide one example of a case where Excel saved a specific file but then couldn't re-open it without throwing a warning (unusual enough that some users might well panic about it). That plus a few other specific issues I've encountered that make me like LO/OO even more than I did before. While I've read about the issue of the OpenXML standard issues, I hadn't experienced it yet, nor have I read of specific cases where someone had that experience (and I don't mean second hand or less).
If anyone wants to add to this, may I humbly suggest you provide specific examples of issues _you've_ had (not that you've read or heard about). E.g., "I saved a file as CSV, and within 5 minutes tried to reopen it but Excel failed to do so. It gave me the following error:" That provides a specific situation that others can test. The more specific the better.
But to say the open XML standard changes so that Excel can't open it just doesn't translate to the general user, even if it IS true. Again, specific examples help.
Carl
I suppose you're right. With some work I could have found a workaround, and I appreciate your idea. My issue is much more about the way MSO is set up by default, and changes to that are not especially apparent.
But your point is well taken.
Carl
Hi 
Look i'm sure we are all quite sophisticated MS Office users, as Carl
probably is too. I, for one, have often taught people how to use MSO
and marked exams for ECDL and other training courses. I know for
certain at least 1 other here has too and i'm reasonably certain that
almost everyone else either already had a high level of skill with MSO
or has learned shed-loads since using OOo, LO,or AOO (or both).
So i'm sure we can all find work-arounds for the frustrations he
shared with the rest of us. I thought Marianne-x's was the best for
item 1 but Anne-ology's a close 2nd. Mine would have been painful =
to cut&paste the formula into a text file. I think it is good for us
to know more than the average MSO user and to stay ahead by sharing
some of these ideas but often we learn just because we have
experienced radically different approaches to things whereas MSO users
have stayed blinkered.
What we normally hear on this mailing-list is noobs frustrations with
LO. It's kinda what we are here for. It's our job (most of us
volunteers but unpaid work is still work) to point them towards decent
document and even directly help them both with their specific problem
and maybe help them realign their thinking so that they can "go with
the flow" more easily rather than fighting against the tide by trying
to apply bad-habits picked up through years of MS (ab)use and then
grumbling that they can't do idiotic things.
So, it makes a nice change to hear some of the grumbles about MSO,
especially because they were different from the usual grumbles (as
neatly stated by null). I agree with Carl that it's probably not a
good idea to have another rant-fest this week but they can be fun.
The thing is that we have to work alongside MSO users especially those
of us at some stage of a migration and we don't want to make the list
appear too hateful and unwelcoming. So, if anyone feels the need to
rant please can they make it humorous?
Regards from
Tom