New keyboard shortcuts: Ctrl+[ and ]

l10n
#1

Hi Andras, *

Concerning the keyboard shortcuts to resize the font in the bug below; i can see that you (Andras) added shortcuts for the swedish version, great!

The thing I am thinking of is other languages with keyboards short of the [ and ] keys. All translators should check their keyboard layout to see if it is possible to enter the Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+] combinations, otherwise it must be added to the source. The swedish shortcuts added are Ctrl+8 and Ctrl+9 (like in swedish msword).

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36187

Best regards Jon

#2

Hey guys, as far as I can tell the Standard version of MSOffice uses the
following keys:
Ctrl+Shift+< and > (Increase and decrease accordingly).

Kind regards,
Yaron Shahrabani

<Hebrew translator>

#3

I'm on English Win7 here with English as my locale but a German keyboard which has the square brackets on ALTGR 8 and 9 too so I don't quite see that working on German keyboards either. Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout that seems to be the case for many Northern European languages. Spanish/Vietnamese/Switzerland seems to use ALTGR and the two keys to the right of the P, French ALTGR with the two keys to the left of the Backspace, Tamazhight ALTGR + U or I. It seems like a messy approach to be honest.

I may be being dim here but what's the point of this when CTRL +/- already increase the zoom system-wide?

On a different note, I have long bemoaned the lack of a tool that allows me to define shortcuts like MS Office where I can use the character map to identify and character and then define a shortcut, including overriding the program/system shortcuts for the application. This also includes shortcuts for things which aren't "characters" such as menu commands. How about a function that allows the user to set keyboard shortcuts for menu items and characters in LO which, if in conflict, can override system shortcuts. It would be great for people working with a mix of languages or unsupported languages on the one keyboard and also get us around this issue as every user could define which shortcut they want to use to resize the font, appropriate to each user's keyboard? It would solve all such issues in one tool, rather than try and solve this headache for each new shortcut that might be useful to some?

Michael

29/07/2012 00:27, sgrìobh Jon Lachmann:

#4

29/07/2012 13:05 Michael Bauer:

I may be being dim here but what's the point
of this when CTRL +/-
already increase the zoom system-wide?

It is not to change zoom-level but to change the selected font size!

//Jon

#5

Hi,

It is impossible to use Ctrl+[ and Ctrl+] in Turkish keyboard
layout.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Turkish_.28Q-keyboard.29
because [ and ] are already key combinations as the same reason
Michael Bauer said above.

Although i've looked to MS Office, their said combination for Turkish

CTRL+Shift+> and CTRL+Shift+

doesn't work on MS Office 2007 and 2010 :slight_smile: The reason that < and >
are usually made by ccombinations.

However, it works on Office 2013 as
[Alt+Ctrl+Shift+1]
and
[Alt+Ctrl+Shift+"]
both needs 4 fingers at once and makes no sense.

Regards,
Zeki

#6

Hi,

May I suggest Ctrl + [ and ] as the default for US and similar keyboards, and Ctrl + 8 and 9 for latin style keyboards?

Who can add these combinations to LO? Andras?

Best regards Jon

#7

Hi,
I believe Slovenian users have same problem with these two shortcuts.

Lp, m.

#8

I note there hasn't been any comment on my suggestion of a LO-wide tool to allow the user to set their own shortcuts...

Michael

31/07/2012 20:35, sgrìobh Zeki Bildirici:

#9

Hi,

In my opinion that is a good idea, but it is only appealing to power users. The average user will probably never find a need strong enough for custom key shortcuts to make her look for such an option. A drawback is that it would make the user experience inconsistent, if user A has all default, and uses the computer of user B she wont find the correct key combinations.

To first focus on creating good and well chosen default shortcuts should be the initial objective and later evaluate the need for such a tool.

Best regards Jon

[mailto:fios@akerbeltz.org]
Jul 2012 22:12:17 +0200
shortcuts: Ctrl+[ and ]

I note there hasn't been any comment on my suggestion of a LO-wide tool

to

allow the user to set their own shortcuts...

Michael

31/07/2012 20:35,

#10

Hm I really don't mean to be sarcastic but - like anyone BUT a poweruser knows any shortcut beyond ctrl c/v/z? If you hit Google Scholar, you find loads of studies which show that on the whole, people don't use them much (like this one http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327590ijhc1802_1)

I think we may be kidding ourselves here :wink:

Michael

31/07/2012 21:38, sgrìobh Jon Lachmann:

#11

Hi,

You are probably right, but it might be easier to teach users to use shortcuts that are there per default than to teach them to use a tool to set up their shortcuts. With this said i do think that such a tool should exist, but only after GOOD default shortcuts are set. The default shortcuts should in my opinion be that good that only very specific user cases need to change them.

/Jon

[mailto:fios@akerbeltz.org]
Jul 2012 23:21:04 +0200
shortcuts: Ctrl+[ and ]

Hm I really don't mean to be sarcastic but - like anyone BUT a poweruser

knows any shortcut beyond ctrl c/v/z? If you hit Google Scholar, you
find

loads of studies which show that on the whole, people don't use

them much

(like this one

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327590ijhc1802_1)

I think we

may be kidding ourselves here :wink:

Michael

31/07/2012 21:38, sgrìobh Jon

#12

Sarcasm in & out,

with that logic many bugs in bugzilla can be marked as invalid, since
most users do not use this or that function of LO.

We have a very simple problem here and before flaming wars start we
must state it clearly: two shortcuts defined that only (or mostly
only) English-typing users (i.e. users of English keyboard layouts)
can use, are totally unavailable to most of other world languages of
LO.

Possible solutions:
1 - fix those two shortcuts for that majority of LO languages
(feasibility: one week, even 3.6 could have it incorporated);
2 - create a new tool for assigning shortcuts (feasibility: find
consensus that such a tool is really necessary, create a UI proposal,
code it, test it; probably 3.8 is the first possible edition to
include it, if only there is a coder enough engaged by this notion);
3 - forget it, because most of LO users are like sheep and use only
shortcuts for cut&paste.

Well, I would propose this:
Ad 1: fix it as a stopper for 3.6, immediately; it is one, if you
think about it - there are help pages referring to it, there are
printed manuals referring to it - and these shortcuts are for most
languages not accessible:
Ad 2: propose 2 to LO users as an idea, incubating one, use the Berlin
conference to ask about real world usage among LO users and
enthusiasts and about enthusiasm among LO coders;
Ad 3: I cannot make another comment without being so sarcastic that I
would insult Mr. Bauer, so I will just stay away from commenting it.

But I do feel very Olympic today.

Lp, m.