New language request

l10n
#1

Hello list,
I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort.
I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization.

I have two conundrums:
1. I have no idea if anyone is even seeing this post, and
2. If this really is still the way to initiate a new localization.

Any help on either of those would be great!
Thanks!

Colin_Tetasset

#2

Hi Colin,

2015-12-08 16:23, Greater Worcester Land Trust wrote:

Hello list,
I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort.
I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization.

I have two conundrums:
1. I have no idea if anyone is even seeing this post, and
2. If this really is still the way to initiate a new localization.

Any help on either of those would be great!

Yes, we do see it, and it's still the right way. I have a few questions
for you as well:
1. Have you subscribed to the list that you posted to
(l10n@global.libreoffice.org)?
2. Do you know the correct ISO code for your language? From glancing at
Wikipedia and some links from it, I assume it would be xlo?
3. A provocative one: are you sure localizing something as huge as
LibreOffice into an extinct (at least according to Wikipedia and its
sources) language makes sense?

Regards,

Rimas

#3

Hi *,

Hello list,
I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort.
I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization.

I share the same reservations as with Bavarian - here probably even
little more so, as if the language is already listed as "extinct" in
wikipedia, I fail to see the point.

Better translate some literature to that language than the UI of a
software package...

ciao
Christian

#4

Hi,

Hi *,

Hello list,
I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort.
I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization.

I share the same reservations as with Bavarian - here probably even
little more so, as if the language is already listed as "extinct" in
wikipedia, I fail to see the point.

Better translate some literature to that language than the UI of a
software package...

I agree with Christian here, LibreOffice is a very huge project, you
will have a lot of concepts to define to create the right translation
and a very long work on the glossary before beginning. If you really
want to do localization, then try to find a lighter project, maybe like
Firefox, which have less dialog boxes and globally less strings to
translate. Or like Chistian said, translating documentation may be an
alternative to begin.
In any case, don't feel sad by our reaction, it's really to prevent you
to waste your time on a project you will never finish, better to begin
smaller and be happy to see the result than never see it and feel
exhausted.
If you need contacts with the Mozilla l10n team in case you're
interested or other open source teams, let me know, I'll help you to
reach their communities.
Cheers
Sophie

#5

it is not extinct - there are aroun 1,5 th Nipmucans. While they speak their tongue and keep it living, it is not extinct.

Is the same kind of question like - is the augštaičiai extinct?

Janis

Citēts Rimas Kudelis <rq@akl.lt>
Tue, 8 Dec 2015 16:55:27 +0200:

#6

I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort.
I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization.

Let's start at the very beginning.

How well does LibO _currently_ support Nipmuck?:
* Is Locale data for Nipmuck correct?
* Is the language currently selectable at >Options >Language Settings

Languages >Default Language >Western"?

* How accurate is the spell checker?
* How accurate is the hyphenation tool?
* How accurate is the grammar checker?
* Are all the glyphs found in the writing system used by the language
correctly represented in LibO?
* Are templates appropriate to the language, and its inherent culture,
available?
* Are templates appropriate to the language, and its inherent culture,
accurate?

Once all that is done, then start creating basic documentation. My
recommendation is that for at least the first round, translate existing
documentation. With the second round of documentation, start using local
examples, usages, etc. within the documentation.

After creating complete documentation for four or five releases of LibO,
most of the glossary related issues will have been solved, which
simplifies the translation by several orders of magnitude.

I'd also recommend starting with the built-in help file, rather than the
initial screens, when translating the UI.

Sidenote: In talking with professors who specialize in minority
language, and language recovery, the uniform response is that it is much
more important that the office suite produce accurate documents in the
target language, than the UI be in the target language.

Rephrasing:

#7

Hi,

2015-12-08 18:37, Sophie wrote:

I agree with Christian here, LibreOffice is a very huge project, you
will have a lot of concepts to define to create the right translation
and a very long work on the glossary before beginning. If you really
want to do localization, then try to find a lighter project, maybe like
Firefox, which have less dialog boxes and globally less strings to
translate. Or like Chistian said, translating documentation may be an
alternative to begin.
In any case, don't feel sad by our reaction, it's really to prevent you
to waste your time on a project you will never finish, better to begin
smaller and be happy to see the result than never see it and feel
exhausted.
If you need contacts with the Mozilla l10n team in case you're
interested or other open source teams, let me know, I'll help you to
reach their communities.
Cheers
Sophie

Just a note: while twice smaller than LibreOffice, Firefox is still a
huge project, especially if you want to translate it fully.

Rimas

#8

Citēts toki <toki.kantoor@gmail.com>
Tue, 8 Dec 2015 18:16:56 +0000:

I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort.
I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization.

Let's start at the very beginning.

How well does LibO _currently_ support Nipmuck?:
* Is Locale data for Nipmuck correct?
* Is the language currently selectable at >Options >Language Settings

Languages >Default Language >Western"?

* How accurate is the spell checker?

for the very beginning I'd suggest to stop at spell checker for a few years - it will actually support learning process of writing. You can even create kind of "extremely advanced spell checker" replacing whole words (or may be even "translating") with the right ones (not the right use of spell checking mechanism, but why no to, if it allows such use). At least - I try to use it that way for another "extinct" language - Latgalian (spoken by some 300 th people daily).

Janis

#9

for the very beginning I'd suggest to stop at spell checker for a few years

For languages that utilize evidential grammar, the grammar checker is
far more important than the spell checker. Likewise, for languages that
make extensive use of noun classes, grammar checking is far more
important than spell checking --- to the point that a spell checker by
itself, is guaranteed to suggest the wrong word.

even create kind of "extremely advanced spell checker" replacing whole
words (or may be even "translating") with the right ones (not the right

For that purpose, either a style checker, or a machine translation tool
would be far more appropriate.

jonathon

#10

Hi again,

I'm sorry to reply so late, work is demanding a lot before Christmas from me.
I agree that it is not very professional to have no Impressum on my page.
Sadly I don't have enough time right now to do it because of my work.
I will finish it as soon as I can though.

Reading Bavarian standard might be hard to do in the beginning, but so it is with every language you read for the first time.

I'm not alone, I have several people contributing with ideas and so far we discuss and decide what word should be written how.
Bavarian might be a collection of dialects and there is certainly no pleasing all of them, but the standard we create is pleasing most dialects most of the times.

As I said, due to work overflow I probably won't be able to contribute much this year, but after the holiday seasons are over I should have enough time once again. I know that as a one man team (with occasional helpers) I will be very slow, but I hope to achieve some sort of snowball effect by convincing more Bavarians that something is being done, which will draw in more people, which leads to the project being completed sooner.

In the end it's up to you to accept or not, but I really rather see a Bavarian standard created through active discussions and logic than one created by using standard German as template. I believe that there will be a Bavarian standard at some point and I just try my best to guide it in the right direction.

#11

I see no reason to turn this down. LO should not be the arbiter over language vs dialect debates and we have never to date intervened saying "you must produce a standard first". Breton I'm sure was a come-first deal and nobody asked if it was Gwened, KLT, Peurunvan, Falc'huneg (L or Gw) or Etrerannyezhel.

And we have many locales which look "odd" to native speakers because the language is not commonly written yet, even less so in software UI. If we turn down Bavarian on that basis, we need to shut down virtually all native American and African language projects.

ISO bar sounds about right as you're suggesting a macrolanguage. What's your account name on LO Pootle?

Michael

Sgrìobh msch@boaric.eu na leanas 13/12/2015 aig 14:00:

#12

Thank you for your support.

My account name is Matumaros.

#13

Michael Bauer wrote:

I see no reason to turn this down. LO should not be the arbiter over
language vs dialect debates and we have never to date intervened saying "you
must produce a standard first". Breton I'm sure was a come-first deal and
nobody asked if it was Gwened, KLT, Peurunvan, Falc'huneg (L or Gw) or
Etrerannyezhel.

Hi guys,

just to chime in a bit late & somewhat arbitrarily in the middle -
indeed TDF would not turn down reasonable requests for new l10n
projects (some technicalities aside, you mentioned ISO code already).

What I've read in this thread, I took it more as suggestions. Being
involved with another minority language (low-saxon/low-german, ISO
code nds), I can say with a bit of authority that when one starts from
zero, focusing on writing tools (spellchecker, grammar checker) is the
best use of scarce volunteer time. If you want to preserve a language
(at least speaking for central Europe), make it easy to write it
correctly. Everyone able to use a computer (again speaking of central
Europe) will have no problems using the UI or help in the respective
majority language.

After that, you can still ponder UI translations (for nds, we're not
gonna do that - at least all the technical terms would stay normal
German anyway, so it's a very high effort for almost no gain). :slight_smile:

Cheers,