non-mainstream

users
#1

On the other hand, this anonymity is the reason these criminal types
            (hackers, spammers/scammers, ...)
          are able to roam 'round - with no fears of being caught ;-(

       For that reason, many of us are wary - maybe even overly cautious
:wink:

#2

Anne, Virgil, Tom,

I only just saw this thread, thanks to Anne's restarting it. I wish I could follow this list more closely, but I just can't. This thread matters to me, however, so I feel compelled to jump in.

Tom, and all - Your initial post is probably the most courageous, human, and gripping thing I've ever read on this list. I've always had a strong sense that you are much in touch with your valuing other people, and your awareness of them, and of yourseflf. In these things, you are in my estimation exceptional. Does this confer a kind of vulnerability? Surely. But the show is worth the cost of the ticket. You lead by example, without question, and I love that example!

It is an undeniable fact that we are social animals. Remove that from us and we become mute, because we no longer have a common language. We also likely become naked (ready for that?) and tool-less (ouch - no computers!!!). Going the other direction, a society of robots sounds unrewarding in the very areas that typically end up mattering most to most of us, especially at critical times - like the death of a child, or when confronting an apparently unsolvable problem, or when encountering our own finiteness.

I don't want impersonal relations. I want people in my life. I can easily predict that virtually everyone else does too. People are more than data and intelligence and decisions. We have bodies and feelings, smiles and laughter and tears. I want all of that. Don't you? I'll bet you do.

Being "different" is an interesting fate, and also as much illusion as fact. Two issues arise rather quickly, and they aren't often enough distinguished: self-acceptance and acceptance by others. I can (for those who are interested) give some exceptionally persuasive references in support of the proposition that these two issues are VERY intimately related - most particularly in our early years.

When adult, it may be hoped (but hardly always achieved) that we are self-supporting enough to be only modestly reliant on acceptance from others. But must of us still need at least SOME of this, and fairly routinely. I know I do. However, there is this qualification: my computer accepts me all the time (well, most of the time). But I never get a hug. My friends, acquaintances, and clients accept me most of the time, too, but offer so much more, including hugs. I may spend more hours with my computer, but I prefer my friends, acquaintances, and clients.

...and now to Virgil - I think there is some truth to what you say, and it has to do with this: When dealing with problems, which is what we do most of the time here, keeping the level of affect (feelings) produced in our brain moderated allows our perceptions and cerebral cortex to function unimpaired by the disruptions that are caused by affective excess. But who wants primarily to dialog with a computer? Or a robot? And who wants to be up in their cerebral cortex all the time? Is that what your wife wants from you? Your kids? Your dog? You? You know the answer.

Well, I'm like your dog. I want more. I think that if the truth be known we all do.

Yeah, I suspect that more than a few here are exceptionally developed relative to problem solving skills, and possibly less developed in supportive, rewarding social relations skills. So...with that awareness in mind, let's just work a bit at keep all of ourselves involved here. Tom D. did, when he told his story. Practice make better.

Anne - yeah, you're right. That's one reason why I have never ever used an avatar on the Internet, unless I was doing an investigation of some ill-behaved person and needed to move unseen. You can go to my professional website and get my phone number (or nabble, and look at my signature block). This is who I am, and it's never been a problem. I strongly dislike avatars. If you cannot stand out where I can see you, you'd better have a darned good reason.

If it were me, no one on this list would be here without an email address to which a name and phone number was attached. Just grow up, people!

One off-topic final note: I'm not finished with the bullying issue. It relates in several ways to much of what I've already said. I'm working on a blog post that will make this clear. I'll bring the link to the list, when it's ready. I've been slow getting to it, as there are many alligators in my swamp just now.

t.

#3

Tom C.

I generally don't disagree with you concerning human relations. However, I don't want *all* of my human interactions to be as emotionally connected as you seem to imply.

I have my family and close intimate friends, with whom I communicate directly, and rarely through e-communication.

I then I have my church family, with whom I am open emotionally, but not as much as with my genetic family.

Then there are e-mail lists of a more personal subject matter on which I will share more openly.

But, this is a techno-geek lists. It exists *primarily* to help users learn how to get the most out of LO. While I appreciate the interaction on this list, I won't deceive myself into thinking that this is an emotionally intimate support system. By it's nature, it can't be, nor do I think it is intended to be.

Virgil

#4

Virgil,

Nicely put, and of course I'm entirely comfortable with your distinctions. I would only add that for me personally, I would like to take my humanity (my emotional core) with me everywhere, even if at times (such as in a focused thoughtful discussion) it is rather obscured by the fierce thought of which I am entirely capable.

It's a tricky business, this being human business!

t.