Opening Files in Writer

users
#1

Using: Ubuntu 12.04.1; LibreOffice 3.6

On my system, which is a dual boot with Windows, I have a lot of documents
already on NTFS drives (I also have LibreOffice 3.6 installed on Windows).

When I start Writer (in Ubuntu), and choose File|Open, I am able to see and
select files on the NTFS drives, but when I select one to open, Writer
simply disappears. I am assuming that this is because the particular NTFS
drive is not mounted in Ubuntu yet, although it shows up in Writer as well
as Nautilus.

If I do this a second time, it works fine and the file is loaded. At this
point, Nautilus shows the symbol next to the drive indicating that it has
been mounted.

If Writer can see the file, it seems like it should mount the drive without
any overt intervention on my part. It almost seems as if it does actually
try to do this, but there might be some timing issue involved (i.e. it
doesn't wait long enough for the drive to be mounted before silently
departing).

Is this ... a bug? ... a configuration setting I haven't discovered? Does
anyone know what to do about this annoyance?

Additionally, I tried (after unmounting the drive) choosing the document
from the "recently opened" list, and it says the file doesn't exist,
although Writer doesn't disappear in this circumstance. After the drive is
mounted, of course, other recent files load as expected. Once again, it
would seem that, if Writer knows where the file is located, it should
attempt to mount the drive - at least if it knows it's a local drive on the
same machine.

One other observation that I'm not certain of: I had originally installed
Ubuntu with wubi to try it out, and I don't believe there was any problem
with automatically mounting and opening anything I picked in Writer, but I
can't swear to that (since everything "worked" I didn't pay much attention).
Under wubi, I believe I was using the "stock" Libre 3.5.x though, so this
might indicate something.

As indicated above, I'm not familiar enough with Ubuntu or LibreOffice to
know if I should submit this as an "enhancement request" or a "bug" and
would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

#2

This is a delay in ubuntu mounting the filesystem. Writer is closing
because the application is unable to open the file. Then when you try the
second time, Ubuntu has mounted the FS, you can actually change your
settings in Ubuntu to automatically mount the filesystem during boot. This
is not a bug with Writer but a system configuration issue. You may find
some information on how to auto mount via Ubuntu help forums or wiki.

Mas

#3

This is a delay in ubuntu mounting the filesystem. Writer is closing
because the application is unable to open the file. Then when you try the
second time, Ubuntu has mounted the FS, you can actually change your
settings in Ubuntu to automatically mount the filesystem during boot. This
is not a bug with Writer but a system configuration issue. You may find
some information on how to auto mount via Ubuntu help forums or wiki.

Mas

Check this link to Ubuntu documentation about mounting a drive at boot.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions

#4

Thanks Jay for the link..

#5

Mas, Jay:

Thanks for the responses; I'll add info to have the drives mounted at boot
time for the time being.

After further experiments, however, I believe more strongly that the
behavior I describe qualifies as a Bug. Here's why:

A) If one attempts the exact same sequence of file loading with Calc, the
behavior is exactly what anyone would reasonably expect. Specifically, if
after confirming in Nautilus that a specfic partition is NOT mounted, you
open Calc and then go through the File|Open sequence on the unmounted
partition, the file is loaded with no problem. If you then return to
Nautilus, you will see that the partition is now mounted. So, at the very
least, there is an inconsistency between the operation of Calc and Writer.

B) To further illustrate why the behavior I describe is "user-hostile," load
Writer normally, and then (by any means) load a few documents that reside on
a normally-mounted partition. If you then choose to open a file that resides
on an unmounted partition, Writer still disappears as I described, as do the
other documents that were open. When restarting Writer, the documents are
all waiting for recovery, of course, but you can see where an unsuspecting
user's stress level might rise.

C) Last, but not least, presenting a "File not found" or similar message
would seem much more appropriate than simply shutting down the application.
But, the helpful approach would be to mount the drive and load the file -
just as Calc does.

So, being new to Ubuntu and the world of open source, I'm not sure how to go
about reporting this "officially" and would appreciate a quick tutorial.

Thanks again ...

#6

I went to my dual boot system and attempted to duplicate the issue under
version 3.5.
When I attempted to open a ntfs file the file manager in Ubuntu automount
the partition without any problem. The file also loaded. Now to compare
apples to apples I am going to force upgrade my version to the latest
libreoffice version 3.6 . I will report back shortly

Mas

#7

I confirmed this is a bug with Writer 3.6 and 3.6.1 . A bug ticket has been
opened under
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54827

Feel free to add your name to the cc list to be updated once the issue has
been resolved.

Thanks for bringing this up.

Mas

#8

What a strange response.

How can this NOT be a bug. Writer crashes, that is a bug.

Even though the cause is at the system level, writer should wait for the
mount to finish before opening the file.

But it should never crash just be cause a file can't be accessed.

And who would want to use automount?

Ferry

Mas schreef op di 11-09-2012 om 18:58 [-0400]:

#9

What a strange response.

How can this NOT be a bug. Writer crashes, that is a bug.

Even though the cause is at the system level, writer should wait for the
mount to finish before opening the file.

But it should never crash just be cause a file can't be accessed.

And who would want to use automount?

Ferry

The problem may be in the Ubuntu configuration, specifically the
fstab.conf file. Some 'buntus do not automatically configure external
hard drives to auto mount at boot. There are good reasons to mount or
not mount at boot. Thus it is user needs which is better.

Using auto mount means the drive is accessible immediately, whether the
drive is an internal NTFS drive or an external drive. You could have a
situation where one drive is the OS, another the Linux home directory
and one or more NTFS/Windows drives.

See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Fstab for more details about
manual configuration.

Also from the Ubuntuforums.org - thread "External drive not recogised on
start up."

"For a GUI, try installing ntfs-config (available in the ubu repos)"

The problem appears to be one that can be solved by auto mounting the
drive at boot.

While the drive is unmounted, I would run gparted and give the drive a
label; this makes setting fstab easier when doing it manually.

#10

G'day All.

I was at a LUG last night and raised this with a couple of the more
knowledgeable members. They agreed that it is not possible to see the
file in the file|open browser if the partition is not mounted. Is it
possible that you are opening the file from the recent files listing?

We then threw around your objection to auto mounting the partition.
Seems to us that windows will mount it at boot, so why are you
resisting mounting it at boot?

All the best

Regards

Keith Bainbridge
PO Box 324
BELMONT Vic 3216 Australia
+61 (0)408 522 706

keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com

#11

Hi Keith:

As I understand things, it is, in fact, possible to see a listing of the
files on an unmounted drive - it just isn't possible to open them.

What is *supposed* to happen is that Writer will automatically mount the
drive when you elect to open a file on that drive (assuming the drive is not
already mounted of course) - this is the behavior of the other LibreOffice
Apps (such as Calc, for instance) and can easily be demonstrated.

It turns out that the behavior I was describing was, in fact, a bug, as you
can see from the responses posted by the developer earlier in this thread.

Windows, of course, does mount everything it can find at boot. My objection
was not so much that the drives got mounted, but in the way the drives
mounted in that way were presented in Nautilus (like second class citizens,
but placed more prominently than the Ubuntu drives with unmount buttons and
so forth).

After far more searching on the web than I would have expected, I've
subsequently discovered how to accomplish this to my satisfaction, however,
and I now have MOST of the drives auto-mount when Ubuntu starts up. The one
exception is the Windows root drive, since I wish to preclude the
possibility of accidentally using that drive while in Ubuntu. When you think
about it, that's also how Windows works (it doesn't see or recognize the
Ubuntu root drive because it doesn't know about ext-type formats).

But thanks for thinking of me - the idea that someone could bring up a
problem in Illinois to a group of users in Australia is something that
probably wouldn't happen in the Windows world.

... and, of course, G'Day to you and your mates as well.

#12

Hi :slight_smile:
Mounting it at boot relies on the Ntfs partition not stuffing-up.  If it stuffs up then the boot-up gets quite grumbly and unhappy, particularly fstab.  It's better to use your file-browser to bookmark certain folders on the Ntfs and then try those bookmarks after boot-up is over and the machien has settled down. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#13

Hi :slight_smile:
It's fairly unlikely that you would accidentally save or use things from a "Windows drive" (really an Ntfs partition on a drive but Windows calls partitions "drives" in order to dumb things down so that even all us stupid users can understand.  They aren't being patronising at all.  It's just that they are superior.  So, a drive that has multiple partitions starts being really confusing)

If your Windows partitions are not mounted as
/home
/home/username/Documents
or anything like that then to access the drive would take deliberate effort.  You would probably notice.  Also the folder structure is radically different on Windows.  Everything is "My Documents" or "Tim's Documents" and folders such as "My Pictures" are inside "My Documents" (or Tim's or whoever) adding an extra unnecessary layer in the folder structure.  In Gnu&Linux the structure tends to be less hierarchical.

Mounting an Ntfs partition is usually fairly easy.  Just click on the "Places" menu or open any folder.  Usually there is a pane down the left-hand-side showing Places (including all your bookmarked folders) rather than the folder-tree.  Windows tends to show something similar now but their one is less useful so people tend to ignore it or remove it.  Partitions tend to appear in there.  It helps if those partitions have labels such as "Windows drive" otherwise it says things like "1.56843 Tb File-system" or something equally meaningless.

However, i think i agree with mounting it at boot-up.  DEFINITELY back-up or just create a copy of fstab BEFORE editing it and make sure you can use a LiveCd if things go wrong.  Fstab is an unusually pedantic file and freaks out a bit too easily sometimes in which case you'll want to copy the back-up over the top of your edited one.  It is a text-file so it's reasonably easy to edit. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#14

Thanks for the comments.

As for Windows' folder organization ("Also the folder structure is radically
different on Windows.") , I can only say "NOT ON MY MACHINE!"

This whole puerile concept of "My this" and "My that" is, in my humble
opinion, rather bone-headed and makes a number of unwarranted assumptions
about the many varied uses of a computer. This is precisely why I have
several Windows partitions that I have carried over to Ubuntu.

For example, if you have "projects" or "hobbies" that you wish to keep
organized such as (to name a few of mine) Genealogy, Development, and
Photography, does it make sense to have subdirectories/folders for each of
these projects under My Documents, My Pictures and so forth, or to have (in
my case) entire partitions devoted to each project (which, by the way makes
for much easier backups, since I tend to work on one subject for a time to
the exclusion of the others)?

In my case, under Genealogy, I have subfolders for record images that I've
scanned or otherwise obtained ("My Pictures" just seems like a lame,
inaccurate, and vague description although that's where the file extension
suggests to Windows it should be dumped), documents I've written,
photographs I've taken in cemeteries and other places of interest around the
world (would this be "My Pictures-2" in Windows parlance?). There are many,
many subfolders under this one subject, and I sure don't want to intermingle
these files with my financial records, PL/SQL code, Music files, etc. etc.

So, I very early on attempted to ignore Windows' mandated structure (even
"My Downloads," which I keep segregated so that I don't need to sift through
various utility installation programs to locate German census sheets from
the mid-nineteenth century and so forth).

I think it's nice that they attempt to help the user get "organized," but I
find that they're just simply not that good at that themselves, so I'd
rather not have their help.

"My Music" is another lame and vague category. I have, as I guess most folks
do, a collection of "music" that I listen to on the computer (e.g. mp3's and
such), but I also have a collection of music scores (some of my own -
MuseScore is a terrific program by the way - and many by my pals J.S.Bach
and Charles-Valentin Alkan that I have obtained in order to attempt some
greater understanding of their particular genius). "Music" is, of course, a
nice generic description of each of these two groups of files, but doesn't
at all help distinguish them, and I certainly don't wish to intermingle
them.

I now realize this has degenerated into a discussion that's way off topic,
and more appropriate for some other forum (and for that I apologize), but -
this whole wish to get things organized in a way that makes sense to me and
is convenient from a file management standpoint is what started this whole
discussion.

I'm only sorry that Ubuntu seems to have been a little infected by this
Windows approach, although they are much nicer about it (Windows howls like
crazy each time I attempt to thwart its control over what even Microsoft
calls ("MY" documents).

Again, apologies for the rant, and have a great day.

#15

G'day Tom,

The NTFS mounting process must haved deteriorated since I used it. I
don't recall such problems when I had to use ntfs-3g only a couple of
years ago.

Or are you talking about the difficulties when people unplug a USB
device without unmounting it?

Regards

Keith Bainbridge
PO Box 324
BELMONT Vic 3216 Australia
+61 (0)408 522 706

keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com

#16

G'day

I'll have to test this somehow - another time though.

Regards

Keith Bainbridge
PO Box 324
BELMONT Vic 3216 Australia
+61 (0)408 522 706

keith.bainbridge.3216@gmail.com