page down in word processors

users
#1

Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$
Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't
get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of
lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading
and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort.

Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I
haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor.

Thanks.

#2

I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of "page" is as much as fills the screen of the display device.

Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text.

But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working.

The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a "slide show", in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat "page down" differently and move down (almost) a screenful.

Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour.

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker

#3

Hi :slight_smile:
Yes, the button probably should say "Screen down" instead of page down for most uses of the button and only say "Page down" for those rare cases where it really does mean a page. 
Regards from 
Tom :slight_smile:

PS blimey a short answer for once!!  lol

#4

>Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as
>M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one
>doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly
>arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see
>what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page
>of new reading for the effort.
>
>Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these
>years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor.

I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of
software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other
words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that,
in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they
get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next
page. And the only sense of "page" is as much as fills the screen of
the display device.

My allusion to e-readers was a red herring. I don't expect word
processors to be e-readers.

Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still
fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format
of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not
usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People
usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a
document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down
a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text.

I'm not wanting the next full page (per a print layout). I agree that
the reader/editor needs an over-lap. What bothers me is that the amount
of overlap seems random rather than being, say, always the last two
lines of the previous screen.

But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for
editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document
and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen
image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you
would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that
you would want to be able to see some part of the document further
down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working.

The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on
screen but only from hard copy.

That's not been true, though, for something like 20 years. Since WYSIWIG
word processors, my sense is that most reading of word processor
documents gets done on screen. And has always been a hassle.

It is interesting that software has
been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather
slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a
"slide show", in which case it opens for any recipient as for
display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode,
which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout -
and in which your page down function works as you want. There is
also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for
users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a
reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving
down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with
LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat "page
down" differently and move down (almost) a screenful.

Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit
reading mode for use in reading, not editing,
documents?

I think this is a false dichotomy. When one is reading a document and
making a few edits here and there, it's important to be able to screen
down smoothly and consistently with, as I suggested above, a consistent
one or two lines from the previous screen at the top of the new screen.

Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this
behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File
button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour.

Unfortunately this doesn't help my use-case, since toggling puts one
back at the beginning of the document. So one can't just toggle to the
edit mode, make the changes, and then toggle back to the read-only mode.

#5

But the issue is now what it's called. The problem is that it doesn't
screen down consistently, giving a full new screen save for a consistent
one- or two-line overlap at the top.

#6

Brian Barker wrote:

I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software.

Page Up & Page Down go back to the days of dumb terminals connected to a mainframe or minicomputer and a page referred to a full screen of data. Back in the late '70s & early '80s I used to support some terminals connected to a Data General Nova minicomputer, where all the editing was done on the Nova. About the only editing you could do directly on the terminal was inserting & deleting characters. The page keys would move the display through the document, with only a small amount of overlap, that is with a Page Down, the bottom line on the old screen would become the top line on the new. The reverse occurred with Page Up. There was no mouse either, just cursor keys, though another system I worked on used a joy stick.

#7

Hi :slight_smile:
Oh wow yeah.  Those "green screens" where you could see the individual dots making up the screen.  The strange greeness a tunnel through to far away places. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#8

Hi :) 
The button that worries me is the "Windows key" with the MS logo on it.  Are the police likely to knock down my door now that i have painted over it with a rather bad copy of the Ubuntu logo?  Also why does Ubuntu store sell a keyboard with the Windows logo on that key?!!
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#9

An interesting point.

Perhaps there ought to be a mode switch between "Next top of page" and "Proportional" when using Page Up/Down keys.

I can't remember the last time I used my "Insert" key to change its mode.

Perhaps it is time to make "Insert" a mode switch for Delete, Home, End and Page Up/Down.

After all, we've got Control, Alt and Win/Apple Whatever special keys. What's one more in the group.

Alas, I digress

#10

When I hit page down or up, it scrolls to the next page :wink:
          when I hit the up or down arrow key, it scrolls line by line :wink:

Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$

#11

but the computer's page is different from the printed page :wink:

       BTW - Brian, I think your explanation was very good.

Hi :slight_smile:

#12

Whew, I've never touched that key;
           will alarms & sirens go off when it's touched :wink:

Hi :slight_smile:

#13

ooh, how I dislike that INS key ... I tend to hit that rather than
the DEL key many times;
           then I'll start typing only to find I'm erasing ;-(

       Whoever decided to place that INS key must not have been thinking;
           doesn't any typist know to click on the space-bar to insert
letters, ... :wink:

       Oh, right, this is a computer not a 'glorified typewriter' :wink:

An interesting point.

#14

Strange thing: I can not find an INS key on my MacBook. Its delete key acts like the back space key...

--Dan

#15

       but the computer's page is different from the printed page :wink:

You're missing the point, which is that the scrolling is not consistent
in presenting a new set of lines except for a one or two line overlap
with the previous set of lines.

Btw, the kind of behavior I like does seem to happen on gedit and
Evolution. So I think it's something in the way the word processor is
designed to interact with the PgDn button.