PC Magazine Comments about LibreOffice

For what it's worth...

In a review of Microsoft Office 2016 in the November 2015 of PC Magazine,
long time reviewer Edward Mendelson gives the new version of Microsoft's
suite 4.5 of 5 stars. As is typical of such reviews, the main discussion is
followed by a short section – in this case titled “Office Alternatives” –
describing other competitive offerings, such as Google Apps, Corel
WordPerfect Office, Apple's iWorks, etc.. He had the following to say about
LibreOffice:

“Although Office 2016 as a whole towers over its competition, it isn't the
best at everything. LibreOffice 5 is a free and open-source suite, so
governments and security-conscious organizations can use it without worrying
about what might be hidden inside Microsoft's code – but it's also clumsy
and unstable.”

“Clumsy” seems to me to be a matter of what one is used to (i.e. de gustibus
non disputandum as Horace said), and Mr. Mendelson doesn't explain what he
means by “unstable” (it's of course easy to find “bugs,” but I consider
“unstable” to suggest frequent crashes, which I haven't experienced or heard
about).

There are a variety of use cases for which LibreOffice is simply inadequate
for serious work of course, but these are not the sort of things that the
average user would run across. Given that LibreOffice is FREE, and coded
mostly by volunteers with a wide range of programming skills and experience,
it seems to me that the author's characterization misses the whole value
proposition of LibreOffice.

I think some very whimsical and uninformed comments from the author.
Unfortunately, that information makes users distrust LibreOffice not want to test their virtues. I would say that LibreOffice is in its best and still much more to do.

Some articles with facts showing quality and low error that has LibreOffice:
-http://www.coverity.com/press-releases/libreoffice-makes-strides-in-software-quality-with-coverity-scan/
-http://www.infoworld.com/article/2687117/open-source-software/libreoffice-code-ten-times-better-than-proprietary.html
-https://colonelqubit.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/libreoffice-qa-over-1000-bibisects-served/
-https://mmohrhard.wordpress.com/2015/10/07/short-update-about-the-performance-testing/

Cheers

hello.
i confirm that libreoffice is the best office suite in the world.
its progress is very fast and its compatible with other office suites
and many programs files and extension.
it becomes update very fast.
one stable update in a month for average!
its opensource, free, accessible, support many many languages, support
different operating systems, and also most versions of windows.
the users and developers are working hard and sincerely for its
progress and bug fixes and provide properties and useful features and
for all users in the world.
and all these points are extremely admireable and undenyable!
god bless you all and be successful in your great work.

To be honest, I have not read the article, but it can be said that a cardinal rule is that you do not alienate your advertisers within your articles.

Unless a writer is not biased towards one system or another, there will always be some issues with their reviews and ideas about their reviewed tech, so many people would say.

Yes, MS Office has the market share for providing office software. Yes, they have the money to make sure there are advertisements on how great their software is. If you were a publisher with MS advertising money coming into your publication, you may do what you can to make any article favor MS and make the competition look unfavorable for your needs. I have seen articles written with a slat towards one side of a debated idea and then the editors/publishers edit it towards the other side without the authors knowledge. "Don't bite the hand that feed you" is a major idea where the businesses who pay for advertisements get to influence what gets "said" in the publications.

We all have opinions about MS vs. open-source or FOSS. I cannot afford to keep paying for my software and its upgrades. That is why I first looked into Linux and its software alternatives. Yes, I still have some Windows systems, but I tend to use the packages I use on my Ubuntu systems on my Windows systems, if they have both Linux and Windows versions. LibreOffice, VLC, Firefox, and a bunch of other software, are a major part of my computer usage on both Ubuntu and Windows systems.

So, back to the article. . .
Was the author uninformed or was their other reasons that such an article content written.
Then there is the question on how much research was done days or week before the article was written and who researched it for the author. I know that a professional writer may not have the time to do all of his or hers research included within an article. If you have to write an article every few days, or daily for a blog article, how much time does that author have for research?

So since this system of providing information and help for a growing competitor to MS Office suite, I say most of us tend think differently than what the article states about LibreOffice 5.x.x, or at least what we hear about what the article stated in these posts. I dumped MS Office due to costs, while others had a variety of other reasons. I do my best to promote locally LibreOffice. Having major tech articles that "bash" the abilities and stability of LibreOffice is not helpful, but these publications need the computer industry's money to survive. If the major supplies of this money needs MS products to keep the lights on, then it is hard to be objective towards alternatives to MS products. Rarely do the people in charge of a business look towards publications based on Linux and FOSS ideas and services for their information about products for their businesses. WE were raised on MS based products to be the only source personal and business solution to our computer needs. WE need to have a major push by the Linux and FOSS based communities to re-educate people that there is a different way of thinking and a different source for our computer needs. European communities are slowly learning this, but the USA communities are not hearing the shouting of the voices of change.

Pro MS articles in publications, without articles that show the real truth about the alternatives to MS, are what is holding back the USA expansion into the alternative products and markets, like LibreOffice others that can replace MS products in you personal and business computer environment.

In response to Bastián and Charles:

To Bastián: It isn't clear whether “author” in your reply “whimsical and
uninformed comments from the author” referred to the author of the PC
Magazine (and this is certainly a Windows-centric publication) article or
the author of the posting (me), but no matter. I hope I'm whimsical,
although both Mr. Mendelson (whom I've never met, by the way) and I have
been using word processors since pre-DOS days. I've been reading his reviews
and other articles since the mid-eighties. We may both be “wrong” but I
don't really believe either of us is uninformed.

I should point out, however, that your listing of “some articles with facts
showing quality and low error” all discuss 'code quality' as opposed to
'application quality' – often related, but not at all the same thing. To
provide a simple example, suppose that someone writes a snippet of code to
add two integers together: we can consider at least three outcomes when
reviewing this code:

1) The code provides wrong answers, and has a significant memory leak;
2) The code provides correct answers, but has a significant memory leak;
3) The code provides correct answers and any memory leaks have been
corrected or never existed.

Providing the correct answer would be a measure of 'application quality',
while avoiding memory leaks would be a measure of 'code quality.'

The articles you reference deal (in my silly example) only with the question
of code quality (the memory leak). And, yes, it is generally acknowledged by
everyone that the TDF team has made enormous strides in this regard. But
this is only tangentially related to 'application quality' (which also
includes a variety of things like “usability,” “documentation,”
“interoperability” and a host of other factors.

Another thing to consider is somewhat more intangible, and descends into
what might be closer to opinion than measurement: since any reviewer would
suspect that the code described above is redundant (one would assume that a
library call to add two integers is available), the application in which my
mythical code exists might well be architecturally deficient. That may or
may not be a flaw depending on your opinion, but such things, e.g.
unnecessary redundancy, certainly don't promote quality.

But, although (as I said) I don't agree with Mr. Mendelson's
characterization (that LibreOffice is unstable), it seems to me he is
discussing the “correct answer” portion of the code example I give – which
is appropriate for his audience, most of whom wouldn't have the foggiest
idea what a memory leak was and wouldn't notice the effects of such a thing
until the inevitable crash. And, for many users, connecting the crash to a
specific memory leak might never happen. In fact, the articles you reference
point to the reasons why the software is more stable now than when TDF began
attacking it. As you say, there is “still much more to do” but I have to
think that the steps taken so far are/were exactly the right way to begin.

To Charles:

With regard to specific use cases in which Writer specifically is
inadequate, I'll refer you to
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92655 for one very
narrow example: that of using multiple languages simultaneously in a single
document. There are two very detailed pdf documents attached to that closed
bug report which detail the issues. I freely acknowledge that multi-lingual
documents are a “fringe” use case, and I also know for a fact that many of
the difficulties I describe go back to some of the original Star* code
(great-grandparent of the current LibreOffice code base). Nonetheless, there
is still much potential design and development that could be done. For this
SPECIFIC use case, MS Word just happens to be much better than Writer. Even
AbiWord is superior in this regard, although it doesn't hold a candle to
LO-Writer in most other areas.

My main quibble with the whole idea of a consumer magazine comparing
LibreOffice to MS-Office is that these applications are designed and
developed in utterly different ways and with entirely different financial
models. As I said, however one chooses to compare them, *most* people are
getting a much, much better deal with LibreOffice (all things considered).

Also, I would point out that for some period of time I lost the capability
of reading my old Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheets, WordPerfect wpg graphics, etc.
until LibreOffice added these. I'm not convinced that any of my particular
spreadsheets from those days are worth preserving for prosperity, but I'll
bet that this is a boon for some organizations, and certainly isn't
something you'll get with Microsoft Office.

AND YET ANOTHER REVIEW:

For yet another take on LibreOffice 5.x, there is a review on page 19 of the
October 2015 issue of Linux Format Magazine by Shasank Sharma. Mr. Sharma's
review is more specific and informative, and gives the suite an overall
rating of 8/10. His summary at the end reads “A polished must-have upgrade
with visible improvements that lays the foundations for future development.”

It seems that today, someone did not have a good day.

I was referring to the author of the article that you discussed in the mailing list.

While I exposed items refer only to code quality, and lower occurrence of errors in it, you can deduce that means better software and more stable (there is much information on the internet about it), by so, that refutes the words of the author of PC Magazine.

On the other hand, I did not speak of features. MS Office does things that LibreOffice not and vice versa. In addition, each office suite has different ways of doing the same things. Overall, for my LibreOffice you can deliver more than the average user MS Office (assuming that the user is willing to re-learn some things).

At the end of the day, each user should be able to choose according to their needs. But this kind of of Article (regardless of their reason for being), I seem a bit irresponsible.

Cheers

“Although Office 2016 as a whole towers over its competition, it isn't the
best at everything. LibreOffice 5 is a free and open-source suite, so
governments and security-conscious organizations can use it without worrying
about what might be hidden inside Microsoft's code – but it's also clumsy
and unstable.”

“Clumsy” seems to me to be a matter of what one is used to (i.e. de gustibus
non disputandum as Horace said), and Mr. Mendelson doesn't explain what he
means by “unstable” (it's of course easy to find “bugs,” but I consider
“unstable” to suggest frequent crashes, which I haven't experienced or heard
about).

I've not read the article but I have to say that LibreOffice 5.0.1.2 has
been a little unstable for me in every day use. For me, "every day" use
includes mainly letters and labels, and I've seen a number of crashes. I
didn't see this on V4.

As for "clumsy", there are some features of LibreOffice that could be in
my opinion described as clumsy in comparison to certain competitors
(e.g. MS Office). All of the points below are in 5.0.1.2.

In Writer, one such example is the way that you can't get real time
previews of what changes to things like styles, fonts, text size,
colours, etc. will look like to existing text. The way that Word does
this is very handy and *in* *comparison* LibreOffice Writer feels
rather... well, clumsy. If you can get real time previews in LibreOffice
Writer please do let me know. (I note that Calc *can* do this for fonts
but not for text size, colours, or anything else that I've noticed).

Another way in which LibreOffice could be said to feel a bit clumsy is
editing of multi-line cells in Calc. Even if the text in the cell is
bottom aligned, when you edit it the text pops up to the top of the
cell. In other words, when editing you are not getting WYSIWYG. One can
live with it but it's a bit annoying. One could even call it... clumsy.

Another oddity is that the user cannot correct the spelling of
misspelled words in multi-line cells in Calc using the right-click menu.
The automatic spell checker will recognise and red underline misspelled
words in multi-line cells but there is no way to use the right-click
menu to correct them. It works fine in single-line cells, though. (You
can still spell check the entire document with 'Tools|Spelling...' of
course but that's not the point here). One might reasonably call this
annoying little oddity... clumsy.

Oh, another oddity that I've just noticed is that when there is a
misspelled word (underlined in red) on the bottom line of a
bottom-aligned multi-line cell in Calc, then when you edit that cell and
the text pops up to the top of the cell for editing, part of the red
underlining remains, somehow orphaned in the cell border at the bottom
of the cell! This is only a visual annoyance but it does look....
clumsy, one might say, in comparison to, say, MS Office.

Another annoyance in LibreOffice is that as far as I know (correct me if
I'm wrong) you can only select automatic spell checking to be switched
or or off across both Writer and Calc (and I presume other programs in
the suite, although I've not tested). In my case, I want automatic spell
checking to be on in Writer but off in Calc. MS Office can do this.
Again, one might say that lack of this feature in LibreOffice, minor
though it is, is a bit "clumsy".

Sure, one can could argue that these examples are only minor and only
"clumsy" in comparison to MS Office but the fact is that MS Office is
the competitor and key comparison point for office suites.

Given that LibreOffice is FREE, and coded
mostly by volunteers with a wide range of programming skills and experience,
it seems to me that the author's characterization misses the whole value
proposition of LibreOffice.

These are idealogical points. Whilst they will always matter to some people, the majority of users and decision makers won't ever care about them; they just want something that works as smoothly as possible. LibreOffice is very good but, as I observe above, it does have some features or minor bugs that could legitimately be described as "clumsy" in comparison to the major competition.

In summary, I like LibreOffice. I recommend it to my clients. But I think it still needs to develop to match the user interface smoothness that MS Office has developed over the years.

Ha, Ha ... At my age, every day is good if you just wake up! But I do try to
keep my curmudgeonly reputation intact when I can.

But seriously, good coders, in spite of what you may read, are not
necessarily good designers; this is and has always been true of virtually
any profession. A good carpenter, for instance, may do a fantastic job of
constructing someone else's designs, but produce second-rate stuff strictly
on his own. A great cabinet designer might not even know how to create a
dovetail. Or not ... It varies widely and I can't see how anyone can show a
valid correlation. And "stable" is, after all, merely one aspect on which
most companies and users evaluate software: it's necessary, but insufficient
as they say.

Coding is a profession requiring study and experience; a programmer might
also be a decent accountant, or writer, or cook, or whatever, but is usually
at the mercy of those doing the specifications and explanations when
attempting to automate something he's only been recently exposed to - what's
even more difficult to do in an unfamiliar coding exercise is knowing when
it is appropriate for "software" to tackle a task in an entirely different
manner than a human would (compare, for instance, the most efficient ways
for a human to sort a pile of records to the most efficient way for a
machine to sort electronic versions of those same records). Not all good
coders have enough experience to do this successfully.

If you take a look at the documents I referred to, you'll see what I mean:
almost everything can be made to work in the multi-lingual examples I give,
and I would guess that the actual code has probably been cleaned up in all
the recent reviews, but it's still a royal pain to use for multi-lingual
documents. In short, it's a bad, user-hostile design that was coded well.
How many great coders are familiar with more than one or two languages?
(Quite a few actually, but I'm guessing you get my point anyway).

And, as I said, I agree with you that Mendelson's comments seemed very odd
given the circumstances. Perhaps I should contact him and see if he wants to
join us in this discussion.

One more quick note:

Edward Mendelson has written another somewhat different commentary on
LibreOffice 5 that can be found at:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2418419,00.asp

Whether differences are 'clumsy' is, I suppose, influenced by what one
is accustomed to using. There are things that, by these measures, I
would label as quite clumsy in MS Office. Examples?

Excel has no way to create custom keyboard shortcuts. Even worse, it
doesn't use standard shortcuts (e.g. for cell alignments).

When switching to an Excel spreadsheet with the mouse, one cannot
click on a target cell. Clicking on it makes the spreadsheet active,
of course, but the last cell which was active is the active cell. It
takes a second click to select the target cell. Not only 'clumsy', but
a huge productivity loss.

In Excel, <F2> followed by <Ctrl>+<A> does not select the contents of
the cell for copying or cutting. Frustrating. And stupid.

Of course, I could go on, but my point is that neither the author of
the article, nor anyone else, should call an application 'clumsy' in
relation to another application unless equally adept at both.