Printing "Brochure" with Writer -- margins

Just a question re: printing a document in "brochure layout" found in the "Print" menu (tab-> "Page Layout").

I am just trying to make the routine of publishing music concert programs as easy for new office staff as possible (I am director for an early music group). One way to print the concert programs in booklet format is to have the office staff type up the concert program in Writer and at the point of printing, choose the "brochure layout" option in the Printer window tab "Page Layout". This method works perfectly and allows for any new person to the music office to just step in and print concert programs in very few steps that require practically no brochure layout knowledge -- extremely user friendly to use.

My question is, when the printed brochure comes out, there is a lot of wasted space at the top and bottom of the brochure pages. Is there a way to make use of this space? ... For example, have the printed words start higher up the page and also down the page?

I know that one could use Draw to make a brochure, but IMO, if the "brochure layout" option were tweaked enough to take advantage of the free space at the top/bottom of brochure pages, it would become an even more useful tool for occasions when brochure printing is called from a Writer document.

Is this something that could be suggested as a bug or put on a wishlist?

Cheers,

Marc

Marc, this is the sort of thing that is controlled by Page Styles, and
Styles all reside inside of Templates. My recommendation would be to create
a Template for your brochure. Then set up the Page Style inside the
Template to have the kind of margin you want, save the Template with that
setting, and then use the Template each time you want to create another one.

I know that can sound a bit complicated, but I have a number of tutorials
on my site at http://www.ahuka.com that address all of these issue. I even
did a sample brochure there, though mine was a tri-fold, which by the sound
of it is not what you are looking for, but it may give you ideas.

Regards,

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the suggestions, but I think you are talking about something else. I am trying to see if there is a way to "tweak" a Writer document where it is possible to choose the "brochure" option in the "Print" section and make better use of the blank spaces at the top/bottom margins of the booklet.

The "brochure" option prints a Writer doc automatically in booklet form and figures out the pagination automatically -- so, a user can easily print out "booklets" by doing practically no setup at all ... no styling needed.

As far as I can tell, even if I change the body length ... for example set the 8.5X11 inch page to a top and bottom margin of "0.00 inches" ... the brochure (booklet) will still be printed with the same top/bottom gaps of spaces at the top/bottom of the booklet.

It would be very useful, if there were a way to make use of the white space through the initial Writer document before going to the "Print->Brochure" option. This would allow ALL Writer users to print out brochure-booklets without any prepping of styles.

Marc

Marc Paré wrote:

As far as I can tell, even if I change the body length ... for example
set the 8.5X11 inch page to a top and bottom margin of "0.00 inches" ...
the brochure (booklet) will still be printed with the same top/bottom
gaps of spaces at the top/bottom of the booklet.

It would be very useful, if there were a way to make use of the white
space through the initial Writer document before going to the
"Print->Brochure" option. This would allow ALL Writer users to print out
brochure-booklets without any prepping of styles.

I think the problem is that the proportions of an 8.5x11" page are different from the proportions of half a page (which is 5.5x8.5"), so a simple scaling doesn't work. When content created at 8.5x11" is scaled to fit on half a page, the 8.5" side become 5.5", while the 11" side is scaled by the same proportion to 7.1" - less than the 8.5" height which is actually available.

Try creating the content with the page size set to 5.5x8.5" (or 8.5x13.1" if that makes it easier to adapt the existing content), then print that as a brochure on 8.5x11" paper.

(Doesn't help you much using US paper sizes, but for those using the European "A" sizes - A4, A5, etc. - this isn't so much of a problem; those sizes are designed so that the proportions remain the same when a page is cut in half)

Mark.

I am just trying to make the routine of publishing music concert programs as easy for new office staff as possible (I am director for an early music group). One way to print the concert programs in booklet format is to have the office staff type up the concert program in Writer and at the point of printing, choose the "brochure layout" option in the Printer window tab "Page Layout". This method works perfectly and allows for any new person to the music office to just step in and print concert programs in very few steps that require practically no brochure layout knowledge -- extremely user friendly to use.

My question is, when the printed brochure comes out, there is a lot of wasted space at the top and bottom of the brochure pages. Is there a way to make use of this space? ... For example, have the printed words start higher up the page and also down the page?

Yes.

Is this something that could be suggested as a bug or put on a wishlist?

No need.

The "brochure" option prints a Writer doc automatically in booklet form and figures out the pagination automatically -- so, a user can easily print out "booklets" by doing practically no setup at all ... no styling needed.

Actually, page format is *only* controlled by a page style, so you always have a page style or styles in every document, even if you only ever use the default Default page style. (Don't be frightened of styles!)

As far as I can tell, even if I change the body length ... for example set the 8.5X11 inch page to a top and bottom margin of "0.00 inches" ... the brochure (booklet) will still be printed with the same top/bottom gaps of spaces at the top/bottom of the booklet.

The problem - as already suggested by Mark Bourne - is that you are not using the brochure facility in the best way. (I think this is an example of where Microsoft Word does things differently; are you perhaps guilty of Wordthink?) If you rely on Writer to scale your text to the brochure size, you will need to choose font sizes and picture sizes and so on which come right in the brochure when printed - instead of using the actually sizes you want, as you would do normally.

To create brochures most conveniently, set your original document page size to the actual size of the page as printed - in your case 5.5 by 8.5 inches in portrait orientation. Set the font sizes as you actually want to see them in the brochure. As you create the text, you will see the pagination as it will actually appear. When you print, using the Brochure option, ensure that the printer settings are 8.5 by 11 inches and landscape orientation. You will find this much easier and the margin settings in your page style(s) should be reflected in what you get.

It would be very useful, if there were a way to make use of the white space through the initial Writer document before going to the "Print->Brochure" option. This would allow ALL Writer users to print out brochure-booklets without any prepping of styles.

Why not prepare the page style (half-size, portrait, margins, possibly including page numbers, ... whatever) yourself and save this as a template? This can include the printer settings, so that Letter, landscape, and even Brochure will all be set without your users having to think about them.

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker

Thanks! Exactly what I needed.

I have redone my booklets as 5.5x8.5 as you suggested and tweaked the margins. When I go to print, I still choose the "Brochure" option and this prints out a nice booklet where I am in control of the margins. Nice!

Cheers,

Marc

Hi :slight_smile:
This question is less about technical issues and more about psychology.
I'm certain that Marc has no trouble with the technical aspects of this.
He's a long-term contributor to TDF and has set-up some pretty amazing
resources on the wiki and website fronts.

The problem with setting things up to make it easy to produce a
booklet/brochure is in getting new users to use them.

New users will often start off not even realising they need to create a
brochure. So they will open some old letter or normal document and delete
out the words to get the page blank and then start typing stuff in. Maybe
after putting all the content in THAT's when they start thinking about
printing out as a brochure.

One way i sometimes try to handle that is to take the work off them. Then
copy&paste-special as "unformatted text" and then try to get the images
either from one document to another or get the original images.

Another approach that also runs into problems is to be 'helpful' by
suggesting this or that the person could do to get to a brochure.

Another approach that fails is to kinda train them how to convert their
document, or how to start the right way from scratch.

I've tried lots of ways and all of them seem to cause different problems
with people. I'm sure that's the problem that Marc is anticipating too.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Can your printer print "borderless" letter or A4 paper sizes?
For my Canon and HP inkjet printers, there is a set of "borderless" sizes of the normal paper sizes. This "tricks" the printer to not have any borders around the final printed page. I use this mostly for printing full sheet photos, so there is not any printer defined margins/borders during the printing stage.

As for the "brochure" page formatting, I do not use the "printing option" but manually create the three columns per sheet side and choose the margins/borders then so it is easier for me to create what I need and see the results without waiting for the printing stage.

But you are missing the point of the original question, in fact. What LibreOffice calls a "brochure" (and what was being asked about) is not a single sheet with columns that can be folded into three (interesting though that is), but a way of preparing a continuous document with full pages half the size of the printed paper and then printing them two pages to a side and - this is the clever bit - having the page images automatically ordered so that the whole can be folded into a booklet.

If the document has eight pages, for example, printing it as a brochure will print pages 8 and 1 on one side of one sheet and pages 2 and 7 on the back. A second sheet has pages 6 and 3 on the front and 4 and 5 on the back. Fold these together (and possibly staple them along the fold) and you have a booklet with pages 1 to 8 in order. Try doing that manually - and then try adjusting the result to print three pages when you find you need a ninth page!

Brian Barker

Sorry, I lost/erased/etc. the original postings before I really read this thread. Been offline for a week or so and a lot of posts/threads got erased [an "oops" happened when dealing with the folder options] due to the number of unread messages in the User List message folder.

The "brochure" wording is a "booklet" to my printing background. So I will have to look into that option more carefully.

The borderless paper options still is valid to force the printer not to add their own margins/borders when you set your margins/borders to something less than the printer likes. I use it all the time when I need the whole page [side to side, top to bottom] to have printed text or foreground/background images very close to the edges of the paper, or need to use a much smaller margin than the printer "likes or requires" when printing out standard letter or A4 sheets.

Hi :slight_smile:
When returning or just going through old emails it helps to start at the
most recent first. That way you can save yourself the effort of replying
to threads that have already been solved.

I found that moving to an email client that threads messages was a huge
boon. GMail calls them "conversations" rather than threads but it's about
the same. VERY useful! Now it's fairly easy for me to see all (well,
most) related emails that follow on from each other and maybe reply to
points from each different person in a single email. Fantastic!!

Wrt names of things. I've heard people use the same words to describe both
types of things. I've even heard booklets/brochures being called
"flyers". I've not heard brochures/booklets being called "gatefold
leaflets/flyers" yet though so i tend to reserve that word for the style
Tim was talking about

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: