Question about Writer - pages and page count.

users
#1

Hey,

I'm trying to create a layout for my thesis in Writer. I know how to work (reasonably well) with page/paragraph styles.

My problem is this: I have to hand in my thesis with only one side of the page printed, the back has to be blank.

I thought I cloud cheat by only using right page styles, because Libre inserts a blank page when two even or odd page follow one another. But these blank pages change my page count. It is true that I actually have more pages than the written ones but it shouldn't show in my page number.

I tried correcting the page number - but I can't figure out how. With each new page the number of blank pages increases - so the fifth page should have the page number 3 (3 written pages plus two blank ones) while the ninth page should have the page number 5 (5 written pages plus 4 blanks).

Is there an easier way to accomplish my goal? Or does anybody have an idea how I can correct my page number/count?

Any hints would be appreciated! Thank you for your time!

Regards
Sylvia

#2

Sylvia,

Hey,

I'm trying to create a layout for my thesis in Writer. I know how to work (reasonably well) with page/paragraph styles.

My problem is this: I have to hand in my thesis with only one side of the page printed, the back has to be blank.

I would modify the default style with correct margins, footers, and styles I need. I suspect you have a different left and right margin, once this is set it will be the same for all pages. The page numbers will be correct and you will not need to modify them for printing. When you print you should be able print using your printer defaults for one-sided printing.

Under Format>>Page using the Page tab you can set your margins as needed. For example in the US the left margin is often 1.5 inches with all the other margins set to 1 inch for a thesis.

I thought I cloud cheat by only using right page styles, because Libre inserts a blank page when two even or odd page follow one another. But these blank pages change my page count. It is true that I actually have more pages than the written ones but it shouldn't show in my page number.

You do not need to use right page styles.

#3

Hi Sylvia

Most of time I create documents that are one-sided and honestly I quite don't
see where your problem is :wink: .

If you want to have continuous page numbering, use just one page style -
default should do just fine. You should only: (1) adjust margins (left should
be bigger, since your thesis will be binded there). Then (2) export your
document as PDF (if you don't have printer in home, you should anyway, in
order to preserve your formatting), (3) ensure that page numbering is correct
(by default it should be, but if you File -> Export as PDF, you can check
"Export automatically inserted blank pages", which may change things a bit)
and (4) print it one-sided, one page per sheet (most printers should have this
as default setting). That's all.

Hope you understood what I mean and hope it helps :slight_smile: .

#4

Jay,

thank you for the suggestion but that is one way that doesn't work for me - because, I have to create a pdf which will be printed by a company that will also bind the book.

Within the pdf the back pages have to be blanks in order to be printed correctly.

#5

I am pretty sure that this should be done at printer-level and not document-
level. Can't you just tell them that they should print it one-sided and leave
right page blank?

Let's consider that you can't. If you are using Linux (and by your User-Agent
I can tell that you do), you can use pdftk (check in your distribution
repository) to insert blank page after each page of your continuously numbered
document. A little scripting may be needed, as well as "empty" PDF, but it
should be very difficult to achieve.

Maybe there are similar tools for Windows as well, I don't know.

#6

Of course I meant that it should *NOT* be very difficult to achieve.

Here is example of inserting blank page into existing PDF document using
pdftk:
http://blog.chewearn.com/2008/12/18/rearrange-pdf-pages-with-pdftk/

#7

Sylvia,

Jay,

thank you for the suggestion but that is one way that doesn't work for me - because, I have to create a pdf which will be printed by a company that will also bind the book.

I just tested File>>Export AS PDF with a 9 page document and got it export "one-sided". The page numbers and pagination are correct.

Note, you probably want to use PDF/A-1a which is the archival version.

Within the pdf the back pages have to be blanks in order to be printed correctly.

This should not be a problem for the printer/binder. You will need to tell them print one-sided not double-sided. One-sided is probably easier for them because any printer can be used, all printers will print one-sided documents. You will need to coordinate with the printer/binder on how they will print the document. You might check with your program/school to see if they have any recommended printers/binders who are familiar with your program's thesis requirements.

True two-sided printing requires a more expensive printer because the paper feed is more complex. In the US the only two-sided "printers" I have seen are larger office copier/printer combinations; most of the desktop printers print one-sided.

Many people do not have a printer capable of true two-sided printing because most home and office printers are designed for one-sided printing. They print one sheet straight through and can not reverse feed to print automatically on the reverse side. The paper feed is much simpler, hence less expensive and should be more reliable.

#8

I thought there might be a way to "turn-off" a page numbering option in a Footer after most of the document uses that format. Can you change the footer's text later in the document without it reseting the earlier pages?

As for inserting blank PDF pages, there are many free PDF "editing" packages Windows/Linux that you can combine/merge 2 or more PDF documents. I remember seeing them a few months ago during my last Windows PDF editing search. If not free, the costs are small if you need to do this many times. I would create a document with the needed blank pages and merge in to the end of your PDF document. I merged 2 PDF documents early last year on my Linux system, but I do not remember what package I used.

The "back pages" is different from the "back of the pages". I see many books that are printed that use blank pages for the last few pages/sheets in the books. Tech books more often than pleasure reading types. It is part of the printer's processing. Also some must have even number of page sides so you do not end with front side of the page and do not "show" or print a back side of that page when it goes into a 2-sided printer. I have one and sometimes that issue messes me up with multiple copies of 2-sided document printing.

#9

Jay,
OT: I use The Samsung ML2855ND laser printer - which costs here (The Netherlands) ~ 150 euro - to print sheet music double sided, which I think is not expensive.
Joep

#10

Being an "ex-Printer man" for one of the large Printer Manufactures I have to point out the following, (which over the years I have found very few users know about).

You do _NOT_ need a more expensive Duplex Printer to produce Double-sided printouts!! Almost all print routines have the option to control what prints out in any print job. So ......

First set-up your print job to print 'Odd pages only';
Take these pages, turn them over and put them back into the paper tray;
Now set-up the print job to print 'Even pages only'.

And there you have it - A Double-sided printout from a single page printer!! Easy.

Ian Whitfield
Pretoria.

#11

Hi :slight_smile:
True :))  You have to do a quick test run with 1 or 2 pages just to make sure which way you have to put the paper back in just in case your printer is weird.  Also make sure that no-one else prints to 'your' printer when you are doing the "even" pages.  I have been in quite a few offices where people would delight in saving-up their print-jobs until someone tried doing something like this purely in order to create confusion and make a fuss. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#12

Okay, from the top: Yes, I'm using linux -> Ubuntu 11.10.

I've talked to the printing company and they said it should be "real" blank pages as the backs. I do not know why exactly, it has something to do with the binding and the 4 pages printout used. (There aren't that many companies around here that will print and bind books as hardcovers with only three copies. If the company wasn't recommended by my university I probably would have chosen a different one.)

I even know how to get that using Indesign, but Indesign is a real pain as a 'writing tool'. So I thought I'd try something else... I didn't even think of changing the finished pdf, but that's a great idea! I'll look into your suggestions. Thank you for that.

#13

Hello Ian,

And there you have it - A Double-sided printout from a single page
printer!! Easy.

In theory, you're right. But as we all know: In theory, theory and
practise should be the same. In practise, they rarely are.

It all works as long as the printer *never* pulls through two sheets of
paper at a time. Which always seemed to happen to me on sheet 2 of a
50+ sheet print run, if I didn't sit there and watch it. Assuming I'd
put the paper back in the tray the right way round. Although once
you've worked out which way that is, no errors should occur because of
that.

I ended up buying a printer with a duplexer to save me all that wasted
time, paper and ink.

#14

On the side of main topic:
I find it quite surprising. If that printing company is recommended by your
university, perhaps there is some kind of agreement between company and
university, and perhaps many students print their thesis in that printing
company. And yet they are unprepared for continuously numbered PDFs that have
to be printed one-sided? I doubt that MS Word makes solving your task any
easier than LO Writer.

Or maybe most students send .doc file to printing company? But that should be
more expensive, since additional editorial work has to be done (beside
printing).

Or maybe most students prepare their thesis in Adobe InDesign (which, as you
say, is capable of solving your task)? I find it quite hard to belive, since
InDesign is really expensive software. But maybe your university has special
agreement with Adobe that students can download and use InDesign for free?

Going further with offtopic, in Poland there are many small printing companies
in close neighborhood of each university building. These companies usually
have few photocopiers, few printers and one or two computers. You can print
and bind your thesis in almost every of these companies, although only in
preset hard cover (they usually say "Master thesis" or something similar on
front cover and they look like [1]). So, if you would like to have your name
or title of your thesis on your cover, it would be harder and more expensive.

Here in Poland we are used to believe that Germany is land of milk and honey.
I find it surprising that - at least in that area - in Poland we are apparently
in better position than you are. Having so many printing companies around, no
one would care about inserting real blank pages into documents - they would
just go to another company, the one that has no such prerequirements about
documents.

[1] http://www.origo.poznan.pl/Graphics/products_76ba860c-6c47-4210-
b5ad-28198cf33cb2_1.jpg
(short link: http://bit.ly/A56Nqh )

Sorry about offtopic, I just wanted to share some of my thoughts :slight_smile: .

#15

There aren't that
many companies around here that will print and bind books as hardcovers
with only three copies. If the company wasn't recommended by my
university I probably would have chosen a different one.

On the side of main topic:
I find it quite surprising. If that printing company is recommended by your
university, perhaps there is some kind of agreement between company and
university, and perhaps many students print their thesis in that printing
company. And yet they are unprepared for continuously numbered PDFs that have
to be printed one-sided? I doubt that MS Word makes solving your task any
easier than LO Writer.

Or maybe most students send .doc file to printing company? But that should be
more expensive, since additional editorial work has to be done (beside
printing).

Or maybe most students prepare their thesis in Adobe InDesign (which, as you
say, is capable of solving your task)? I find it quite hard to belive, since
InDesign is really expensive software. But maybe your university has special
agreement with Adobe that students can download and use InDesign for free?

Going further with offtopic, in Poland there are many small printing companies
in close neighborhood of each university building. These companies usually
have few photocopiers, few printers and one or two computers. You can print
and bind your thesis in almost every of these companies, although only in
preset hard cover (they usually say "Master thesis" or something similar on
front cover and they look like [1]). So, if you would like to have your name
or title of your thesis on your cover, it would be harder and more expensive.

Here in Poland we are used to believe that Germany is land of milk and honey.
I find it surprising that - at least in that area - in Poland we are apparently
in better position than you are. Having so many printing companies around, no
one would care about inserting real blank pages into documents - they would
just go to another company, the one that has no such prerequirements about
documents.

Another option is to print the required copies on a laser printer yourself and then have them bound. You may need special archival paper.

In the very old days, I printed my thesis and had it bound separately. I had to get special paper and format the text according to the instructions.

#16

Do not use left or right page style. They are only good when you print double side. They are used to differentiate odd/even pages. And if you use only 'right page' style, LO will insert a blank page after every left/right pages. And you don't want that.
For single side printing, use 'default' page style with 'First Page' style as optional.
cK

#17

Was the original question involving a professional service that would print many copies of the document and do a professional binding? If so, then printing on your own printer is not an option here.

I would not want to print out 20 copies of a 300 page document [150 sheets of paper each] on my laser printer, which is no a duplex printer. I would not print out a single copy on my duplex inkjet printer either.

It is all about the scale of the print job and the professional looking binding. That is what seems to me the issue here. The person needs the blank pages at the end of his document to fit the needs of his Professional Printing Service. He is not going to do the printing at home, where he can just add unprinted sheets to the stack of paper coming off his printer.

Sure, there are a lot of printers that can do two-sided printing or odd/even printing, but that was not the issue here. I bought a duplex inkjet to save money on paper. I would like a duplex laser printer as well. But I would never use my printers to do a production run for large page count documents. I would use a print-on-demand service or a local printing service for those "production runs".

Would you want to print off 500 double sided brochures for a LO table at a show yourself? Or would you try to get a deal at a printer's place. Just folding them to be a tri-fold brochure, with paper creased already at the folding lines, is too much for me to think about.

It all comes down to the scale of printing and how professional the folding/binding/covers are to be.

He is needing the professional look, in my opinion, and needs the final PDF file to have the extra blank pages at the end of the document. That was the issue, and that is what we needed to give an answer to.

Is there a way to Export-to-PDF or print-to-PDF using internal document controls to create the blank pages with no header or footers? If not then he will have to use some external PDF editing software to "insert" blank pages at the end of the document. Hopefully someone knows how to add/remove/change the header and footer text after a certain point in the document. I remember using some word processor many years ago that allowed that. Just go to page 55 and edit the footer showing on that page and it will be the original one on pages 1 thru 49 and the new one on 50 thru the next change or the end of the document. If that type of thing has been removed due to document file format issues, then it needs to be put back in.

So does any one know how to change the footer to a different text option after 50 pages or so and keep the original footer for the first 50 pages? He needs this for the creation of a PDF file, not a paper version. That is the question here, and not if/how a printer can print his document by some two sided printing method.

#18

They print a 4 pages on each side of the sheet of paper and use the equipment to fold, cut, and bind them to make the physical document/book/etc. Modern hardcover novels, using the large print companies, end up printing 16 pages per side of a sheet-block on a web-press. Then these sheets are printed on each side [32 page faces at a time] then take these folded groups and have a machine merge each 32-page group together to make the 400 - 1000 page hardcover, and even mass-paperback books. This is a standard printing method, instead of printing a single 2 sided page at a time. It is easier to bind the 32-page group than the single double-sided pages as well. Easier for printing and cost less in the long run.

That is why the blank pages; to fill the rest of the large size, multi-page, sheets. They want the author to do this, not their people. They do not want to edit your PDF file. Print-on-demand companies, like Lulu.com are do the same, but to a lesser degree.

#19

Okay, I found a way that works for me:
I'll use a single side layout, make a pdf from it and then I'll create a pdf with only blank pages, merge these two pdfs and rearrange the pages - page1 of pdf1 followed by page1 of pdf2. Or something along those lines - I found a few pdf-editing-tools that have some great capabilities.

It probably isn't an elegant solution but it works.

Thank you all for your input!

#20

Hi :slight_smile:
So they are printing to A3 rather than A4.  Those numbers are rather familiar!  16, 32, 64.  They turn up all over the place :slight_smile:
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: