Rename datapilot to Pivot Table?

l10n
#1

Hi,

in OOo 3.4 "Datapilot" was renamed to "Pivot Table". This change was
merged to LibO and is now in localization.

While we discussed if we will change the name in GErman translations,
Stefan Weigel found something interesting:

Es gibt übrigens eine Patentschrift United States Patent Nr.
US6,411,313 B1, in der das User-Interface der microsoftschen
Pivot-Tabelle als Erfindung geschützt wird. In dieser Schrift heißt
es unter anderem wörtlich: "PivotTable is a trademark of Microsoft
Corporation."

http://ip.com/patent/US6411313 (Seite 10, 2. Absatz)

Short translation is that there is a patent claim which references to
PivotTable as trademark of Microsoft Corporation. Within the last
years this was always named as reason why OOo needs to use the term
"Datapilot" - I have no idea if (and how) this situation did change
recently. In fact there might be an agreement between Oracle and MS
which covers OOo .. but surely not LibO.

Any ideas on this?

regards,

André

#2

Hi

Hi,

in OOo 3.4 "Datapilot" was renamed to "Pivot Table". This change was
merged to LibO and is now in localization.

While we discussed if we will change the name in GErman translations,
Stefan Weigel found something interesting:

Von: Stefan Weigel<stefan.weigel@bildungskreis.org>

Es gibt übrigens eine Patentschrift United States Patent Nr.
US6,411,313 B1, in der das User-Interface der microsoftschen
Pivot-Tabelle als Erfindung geschützt wird. In dieser Schrift heißt
es unter anderem wörtlich: "PivotTable is a trademark of Microsoft
Corporation."

http://ip.com/patent/US6411313 (Seite 10, 2. Absatz)

Short translation is that there is a patent claim which references to
PivotTable as trademark of Microsoft Corporation. Within the last
years this was always named as reason why OOo needs to use the term
"Datapilot" - I have no idea if (and how) this situation did change
recently. In fact there might be an agreement between Oracle and MS
which covers OOo .. but surely not LibO.

Any ideas on this?

Woah.... seems we live in a mad, mad world...

In Brazil it is known as "dynamic table". I wonder one here can trademark such common words.

Besides, a quick reading of the link above seems to deal more on the pivot table user interface than on the name...

#3

Hi *,

[PivotTable is trademark]
http://ip.com/patent/US6411313 (Seite 10, 2. Absatz)

trademark status itself:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=serial&entry=74472929

ciao
Christian

#4

Hi Olivier,

Besides, a quick reading of the link above seems to deal more on the
pivot table user interface than on the name...

Sure, but on page 10 it clearly reads: "PivotTable (TM) is a
trademark of Microsoft Corporation."

Meanwhile I also found the USPTO record:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4009:kv5n4s.2.1

Stefan

#5

PivotTable as trademark of Microsoft Corporation. Within the last
years this was always named as reason why OOo needs to use the term
"Datapilot" - I have no idea if (and how) this situation did change
recently.

The text only concerns "PivotTable" written this way, not the concept of
Pivot Tables or their name. I filed this bug back in February
http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=116757
and OpenOffice.org should have renamed all instances of "PivotTable" to
"Pivot" and kept "Pivot Table" (with space) as replacement of
"DataPilot".

In fact there might be an agreement between Oracle and MS
which covers OOo

This seems really far-fetched... With the same likelihood, Novell could
have negotiated an indemnity for its commercial version of LibreOffice
or for all versions. I'm sure it's better to leave our imagination out
of the issue, and check the facts in the above issue page; and, if in
doubt, indeed act conservatively as you suggest. But to the best of my
knowledge, the wording as it is in OpenOffice.org should be OK now.

Regards,
  Andrea.

#6

Since, the link above has expired, see here:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/a/a5/PivotTableTrademark.pdf

Stefan

#7

Just use the link I posted - all infrom available from that one.
http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=serial&entry=74472929

And doesn't consume a slot on their servers that expires

ciao
Christian

#8

Hi Andrea,

The text only concerns "PivotTable" written this way, not the concept of
Pivot Tables or their name.

Hm. The official USPTO record reads:

Word Mark PIVOTTABLE

AFAIK, at least in Germany, this would mean that any use of similar
writings like "Pivot Table", "pivottable", "Pivot-Table",
"pIVOTTABLe" or whatever would require the permission from the owner
of the trademark.

In german law:
§ 9 (1) Nr. 2 MarkenG "Gefahr von Verwechslungen"
--> Likelihood of confusion

However, this is a US trademark. Maybe it´s different there.

Regards,
Stefan

#9

Hi all,

Hi

Hi,

in OOo 3.4 "Datapilot" was renamed to "Pivot Table". This change was
merged to LibO and is now in localization.

While we discussed if we will change the name in GErman translations,
Stefan Weigel found something interesting:

Von: Stefan Weigel<stefan.weigel@bildungskreis.org>

Es gibt übrigens eine Patentschrift United States Patent Nr.
US6,411,313 B1, in der das User-Interface der microsoftschen
Pivot-Tabelle als Erfindung geschützt wird. In dieser Schrift heißt
es unter anderem wörtlich: "PivotTable is a trademark of Microsoft
Corporation."

http://ip.com/patent/US6411313 (Seite 10, 2. Absatz)

Short translation is that there is a patent claim which references to
PivotTable as trademark of Microsoft Corporation. Within the last
years this was always named as reason why OOo needs to use the term
"Datapilot" - I have no idea if (and how) this situation did change
recently. In fact there might be an agreement between Oracle and MS
which covers OOo .. but surely not LibO.

Any ideas on this?

Woah.... seems we live in a mad, mad world...

In Brazil it is known as "dynamic table". I wonder one here can
trademark such common words.

well, the word "bohneur" in French is owned by Nestlé :stuck_out_tongue:

Besides, a quick reading of the link above seems to deal more on the
pivot table user interface than on the name...

For the FR community we decided to no change it to the MS terminology and keep the OOo one.

Kind regards
Sophie

#10

Hi all,

Short translation is that there is a patent claim which references to

PivotTable as trademark of Microsoft Corporation. Within the last
years this was always named as reason why OOo needs to use the term
"Datapilot" - I have no idea if (and how) this situation did change
recently. In fact there might be an agreement between Oracle and MS
which covers OOo .. but surely not LibO.

Any ideas on this?

Well, the people at Sun were right.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4009:rmqegm.2.1

PIVOTTABLE is a registered federal US trademark, assigned to Microsoft Corp.

It is also registered at least in France.

At the European Community Trademark Office :

http://esearch.oami.europa.eu/copla/trademark/data/000943019

and no doubt elsewhere in the world.

Alex

#11

what about calling it "Kreuztabelle"

in Ooowiki it is used as synonym
http://www.ooowiki.de/PivotTabelle
http://www.ooowiki.de/KreuzTabelle

i also could imagine
  to create simply a simple better word

e.g. in ORACLE PL/SQL the keyword GROUP BY is used to achive a data aggregation

even in MS Excel most people dont like Pivot Tables cause "Pivot" sounds complicated

so lets call it Mapping, Datamining, grouping, dynamic linking, data relation mining, data relation grouping
something understandable with positiv vibrations :wink:

#12

I guess Oracle OOo dev team was not aware of it or forgot about it (or many
people do not work there anymore).

What now? I doubt it is a problem in translations. I guess only in English
it has to be changed to something else. I doubte M$ copyrighted this word in
translated form in all other countries of the world.

Lp, m.

#13

Alexander Thurgood wrote:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4009:rmqegm.2.1
PIVOTTABLE is a registered federal US trademark, assigned to Microsoft Corp.

And so far we all agree, and this is the premise of the old issue I
mentioned: http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=116757

But does this mean that, like Stefan wrote in
http://www.mail-archive.com/l10n@libreoffice.org/msg02401.html
all possible derivatives including "Pivot Table" must be avoided? (And
why didn't Microsoft trademark "Pivot Table" directly then?)

I understand the point of view of those who believe it's better being
safe than sorry, but this change would have some positive effects for
users who look for the "Pivot Table" functionality and fail to recognize
that "Data Pilot" is what they are looking for. Of course they get
accustomed, but still this sounds like a ripoff of Pivot Tables...

Regards,
  Andrea.

#14

Hi,

what about calling it "Kreuztabelle"

in Ooowiki it is used as synonym
http://www.ooowiki.de/PivotTabelle
http://www.ooowiki.de/KreuzTabelle

Well this would replace one "Workaround" by another. Not my favourite.

i also could imagine
to create simply a simple better word

e.g. in ORACLE PL/SQL the keyword GROUP BY is used to achive a data aggregation

Ouch - "Group by" is a completely different functionality (Oracle 11g now can also do a PIVOT in SQL - MS SQL Server can do this for about 10 years)

André

#15

Hi,

Alexander Thurgood wrote:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4009:rmqegm.2.1
PIVOTTABLE is a registered federal US trademark, assigned to Microsoft Corp.

And so far we all agree, and this is the premise of the old issue I
mentioned: http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=116757

But does this mean that, like Stefan wrote in
http://www.mail-archive.com/l10n@libreoffice.org/msg02401.html
all possible derivatives including "Pivot Table" must be avoided?

As Stefan wrote, this might be true for several local juristications. (E.G. In Germany
you should not use a uppercase magenta T to name your IT-related services, unless
you want to be sued by German Telekom. Even using magenta color is a risc.)

I understand the point of view of those who believe it's better being
safe than sorry, but this change would have some positive effects for
users who look for the "Pivot Table" functionality and fail to recognize
that "Data Pilot" is what they are looking for. Of course they get
accustomed, but still this sounds like a ripoff of Pivot Tables...

Hmm .. ok, seems there are different opinions in the localization teams. So let's deal
each localization team with this.

André