Similar Problem?

users
#1

I am seeing something and I don't know if it is a problem or something I have to live with.

In the ~/.config/libreoffice/4/user/backup directory, I have 3,000+ files with 0 bytes. I assume that this means the files are empty. There are other files there which are not empty. The non-empty ones appear to be backups of files I have worked on. The empty files all appear to be attempts to backup a Base database that I have created using the built in hsql engine. The file is stored on my computer. The time stamps on the files are unusual. There are 6 files with a time stamp of 15:58, 6 with 15:59, 6 with 16:00 and the pattern continues for the other 3,500 empty files.

Does any one else have the same situation? I have the save/backup time in the general options set to 15 minutes.

I have a listing of all of the files if anyone wants to see it.

Thank you,
Vince Radice

#2

Hi :slight_smile:
On Ubuntu 12.04 i have no files in there. Do the file-names start
with a ~ or with "lock"? In either of those cases i think you can
delete the files without worry but it might be worth testing that for
1 or 2 files.

Going off on a tangent i do have a non-LibreOffice folder with a load
of crash reports from when i don't close Xbmc properly and i routinely
delete all of them from time-to-time. I'm not sure if this is similar
or not.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#3

My "/backup" folder is empty as well, but the date of "last modified" is in line with the last time I used LO.

Could it be part of the auto save or some other "service" that would need to back up what is being done with LO and remove it when you close out LO?

#4

I am running Fedora FC19-64 bit. Libreoffice Version: 4.1.4.2
Build ID: 4.1.4.2-2.fc19

Here are some lines of a ls -la command

-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 13:10 GRNew odb_0.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:58 GRNew odb_1000.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:58 GRNew odb_1001.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:58 GRNew odb_1002.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:58 GRNew odb_1003.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:58 GRNew odb_1004.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:58 GRNew odb_1005.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:59 GRNew odb_1006.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:59 GRNew odb_1007.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:59 GRNew odb_1008.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:59 GRNew odb_1009.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 13:26 GRNew odb_100.odb
-rw-------. 1 vince root 0 Dec 13 15:59 GRNew odb_1010.odb

My database name is GRNew,odb.
I was looking at some of the recent messages that were talking about LO looping saving backups of untitled documents. It mentioned Calc and Write as being involved. Could this be related to my problem?

Thanks,
Vince Radice

#5

Hi :slight_smile:
Errr, are you using the internal back-end? You haven't connected to
an external back-end have you? You should really be keeping your data
in an external back-end instead of having the whole database as a
single file.

Being able to do that is one of the main things that makes Base so
much more powerful than Access. The internal back-end got tacked on
to make Base more familiar to people who have picked up bad habits by
using Access. It seems to be a bit broken though. Annoyingly the
Marketing Mailing List and all our flyers, posters and leaflets (at
least all the ones that mention Base at all) keep pushing people into
using the internal back-end despite the fact that users have even
experienced data-loss by doing so. I'm tempted to ask you to take
this problem to the marketing list to get them to solve it but the
experts in Base are mostly on this list and will hopefully be able to
help with this issue.

It should be possible to export your existing tables into an external
back-end and this mailing list (note, not the marketing list) might be
able to help you with that.

The next smart thing about Base is that forms and reports can be, and
are best made in Writer or/and (i think) Calc. So normal users who
are clueless about databases can read the data in a familiar setting
and use familiar tools to format and edit things around the
data-fields. The forms and reports inside Base seem to be for
data-entry and people who have some clue about databases.

However i have never quite got around to getting to grips with all
this. So hopefully some of the experts might wade in and set me
straight (again)
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#6

Hi :slight_smile:
Errr, is it possible to switch the auto-save and auto-backups off for
a while and see if that improves things? The thing i find difficult
about doing that is remembering to save properly and frequently
enough. With Base i think it's also important to close properly.

There is some documentation and a handbook at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
and the Faq at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq
might be able to help too but the best place seems to be this mailing
list or the Base forums at Apache OpenOffice.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#7

I used to have that problem. It seems to have stopped around about 16th July 2013. Not sure why!

Either -

I upgraded LibreOffice which stopped the feature
or I did something else which I can't remember!

I'm currently on 4.1.4.2.

Alex

#8

Not sure if this got to the list

Alex

#9

Having said all that. It would appear that I've never had auto backup switched on.

Having switched it on I now see backups and autobackups for writer and calc documents. Nothing at all for base documents.

Alex

#10

Unfortunately, I don't know what causes the problem and, thus, I can't recreate it.

I am trying something now. I brought it up, updated a record but did not save it (I have a saved copy someplace else). I intend to let it be up overnight and check in the morning for the files. I had already cleared out all of the empty ones. I noted the time I brought is up and made the change.

I want to see if it reoccurs. if so, then when. I also intend to save it and close it in the morning. If the files are there, see if the creation stops. Hopefully, this will lead to why it is happening.

On another tangent, I had lost data and had to recreate the db. During that process, I read a few things indicating that using HSQL could lead to losing data. The recommendation was to use an external db. I spent several weeks last year trying to get Mysql to work. I followed the conversion guidelines that I had found but was unable to get it to work. I created the Mysql database and was able to create and load the tables (I think) but I could never get Base to recognize and use it. All of my queries and reports are in Base. I may have to try again if I can find the time. This time I will record what I install and what I do.

Vince Radice

#11

Hi :slight_smile:
This mailing list might be able to help you migrate your existing
tables to an external back-end. There was a looong thread about this
a few years ago when Ian (err can't remember his surname [hangs head
in shame]). It is roughly what i hope to do = start with the internal
back-end and then migrate it.

To be fair it's not Hsql that is the problem. It's the ancient
version that got twisted and squeezed into being the internal back-end
in Base and then didn't get enough further developments. As an
external back-end, if you grab any of their newer versions straight
from their website, then it apparently works like a dream (errr as in
super fast and smooth, not as in imaginary). On the other hand it
might be good to choose a different back-end and there are plenty to
choose from.

When choosing a back-end it might be worth considering what sort of
size are you talking about. MySql/MariaDb, Postgresql and other big
names are meant for huge amounts of data. I mean really vast and
quite complex. For an address book for a small-medium sized business
it's over kill and you might find them comparatively sluggish when
handling that little data. What i need is something small and fast
but that often points to java-based ones such as Hsql and java makes
me shudder.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#12

It is Thursday morning. I looked and there were 10 empty files in the backup directory from 10:49 pm to 10:50 pm. When I tried to bring the database down this morning, it would not come down - Starter was not responding. I waited several times to see if it would clear up and end. Nothing. I finally terminated the application. Started Calc to cause the recovery procedure to work. Recovery was successful and no data was lost.

I still cannot figure out what is causing the problem. I had thought that leaving it up overnight would create the files.

Any suggestions as to what to do next? Any options that might need to be changed.

Here is a link to a screen print of my LO Load/Save options.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw7LR6zNWsAKRHY2dS1BdTNYQW8/edit?usp=sharing

As for the change to a different backend, I am open to suggestions. The size of my database now is about 900k. I make a few additions each week. So a small and fast is appropriate. I am open to suggestions.

Thanks,
Vince

#13

Vince

In respect of the empty files -

     * Which version of LibreOffice are you using?
     * Which distro are you using?
     * Which desktop?
     * Is it causing you any hardship?
Alex

#14

I've got the same settings as described below. I'm also using 4.1.4.2.

I had the same problem up to 16th July 2013. But, then it stopped. Don't know why - sorry.

Even with the settings described above *Base* doesn't autosave whereas *Writer* and *Calc* does.

Alex

#15

HI :slight_smile:

From an earlier post ...

I am running Fedora FC19-64 bit. Libreoffice Version: 4.1.4.2
Build ID: 4.1.4.2-2.fc19

#16

Hi,

I am running Fedora FC19-64 bit. Libreoffice Version: 4.1.4.2

Build ID: 4.1.4.2-2.fc19

My Desktop is KDE 4.11.4

The problem is that if I don't keep deleting these empty files, they will build up. I first noticed this when looking through the log for my backup program. There were over 250,000 files. I assume that the overhead involved in a loist this size would be enourmous. I have also had problems where the hdd activity was so great that I could not get much response and started closing thing to try to figure out what the problem was. Since I have been keeping the empty files deleted, I have not had the problem.

This goes back to my question - is anyone else seeing the same situation?

Also, how do I fix the problem of empty files?

Thanks,
Vince Radice

#17

Hi,

     From my first post -
I am running Fedora FC19-64 bit. Libreoffice Version: 4.1.4.2

Build ID: 4.1.4.2-2.fc19

My Desktop is KDE 4.11.4

The problem is that if I don't keep deleting these empty files, they
will build up.

Depending on what filesystem you are using,
you could even run out of inodes on your disk even though you
may have plenty of storage space.

This happened to me on a little server here that's had ext3 since Lenny,
and for some reason there was no entry for popcon in /etc/logrotate.d,
and I ended up with some 50,000,000,000 something log files.

I couldn't write to the disk, even though df -h showed that I still had
like 20gb on the / partition and like 100gb on the /home
(lesson: rotate all log files, kids).

Tony

I first noticed this when looking through the log for my

#18

Hi,

     From my first post -
I am running Fedora FC19-64 bit. Libreoffice Version: 4.1.4.2

Build ID: 4.1.4.2-2.fc19

My Desktop is KDE 4.11.4

The problem is that if I don't keep deleting these empty files, they
will build up. I first noticed this when looking through the log for my
backup program. There were over 250,000 files. I assume that the
overhead involved in a loist this size would be enourmous. I have also
had problems where the hdd activity was so great that I could not get
much response and started closing thing to try to figure out what the
problem was. Since I have been keeping the empty files deleted, I have
not had the problem.

This goes back to my question - is anyone else seeing the same situation?

Also, how do I fix the problem of empty files?

Thanks,
Vince Radice

Vince
This looks very similar to an issue I reported earlier. See:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46635

My "cure" for it was to deselect Tools-Options-Load/Save-General 'Automatically save the document too'

I noticed on your screen print that that option is selected. Try deselecting it and see what happens.

John

#19

Vince

Have you solved this problem?

If not - have you tried starting a completely new configuration directory?

Again if not this is what I would do -

close down all Libreoffice applications
Start a konsole session.
Save the existing Libreoffice configuration settings

     * cd .config
     * mv libreoffice libreoffice$(date +"%Y%m%d%H%M%S")
start the Libreoffice document that's been causing the problem and see what happens!!
If it starts to look like this has fixed the problem you will have to reconfigure Libreoffice. Some of the files can be used as is from the saved configuration.

Alex

    Hi, From my first post - I am running Fedora FC19-64 bit. Libreoffice Version: 4.1.4.2
Build ID: 4.1.4.2-2.fc19 My Desktop is KDE 4.11.4 The problem is that if I don't keep deleting these empty files, they will build up. I first noticed this when looking through the log for my backup program. There were over 250,000 files. I assume that the overhead involved in a loist this size would be enourmous. I have also had problems where the hdd activity was so great that I could not get much response and started closing thing to try to figure out what the problem was. Since I have been keeping the empty files deleted, I have not had the problem. This goes back to my question - is anyone else seeing the same situation? Also, how do I fix the problem of empty files? Thanks, Vince Radice
                  
Vince
      
In respect of the empty files -
      
     * Which version of LibreOffice are you using?
     * Which distro are you using?
     * Which desktop?
     * Is it causing you any hardship?
Alex

#20

John,

     I tried creating a new configuration like you suggested. I ran for several days with no empty files being created. Yesterday, I went in and clicked the Always Create Back up Copy. This morning I was on and made a few changes to the data base, ran a report, and then went to save the report. The saving process seem to take a long time to complete. I have been running Gkrellm to watch what is happening. I noticed that my disk activity went very high. I then looked and saw empty files being created in the backup directory. I then closed the data base and disk activity went down to normal levels. I then went and turned off the Always create back up option.

     I will continue to monitor the directory to see if this is the option that is causing me problems.

     Hopefully this will lead someone to figure out what is happening.

     Is it possible that the backup process requires locking the file (aka getting exclusive access) while doing the backup and, because the database is open, it cannot get a successful lock and is looping in trying to get the lock?

Vince Radice