spacing after punctuation

users
#41

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:34:15 -0400
Virgil Arrington <cuyfalls@hotmail.com> dijo:

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 21:32:48 -0400 doug dijo:

I downloaded and installed Linux Libertine from the Ubuntu repos, and
also installed the typography toolbar 1.1. The font appears fine and
the toolbar appears as I think it is supposed to. But there is a
problem. I opened an unimportant LO file to experiment with, selected
some text that had a number in it, applied Linux Libertine font, then
clicked on the old style numerals button in the toolbar. Nothing
happened. I repeated this with ligatures, tried true small caps, and
various other features of the toolbar, but the text flickered for an
instant and no changes were made.

Did you download Linux Libertine "G"? There are different versions of
the Libertine font. Some have an "O" at the end and others have a "G".
The "G" stands for Graphite and they are the only ones that have
access to the expert glyphs. It doesn't work with the Libertine "O"
flavor.

That was the problem. The version in the Ubuntu repos was not the G
version. Thanks for pointing that out.

However, not all of the features are working, or maybe I don't
understand how to use them. All ligature styles, small caps, old style
numerals and fractions are working. But the fancy No. and the 1st
options do nothing. And the superscript and subscript options don't
work either, nor do the slashed zero or minus sign, and the en-dash
correction just adds a space after a hyphen instead of converting it to
an en-dash with spaces.

I'm also curious why this works only with the LinuxLibertineG fonts.
Adobe InDesign had these features 14 years ago, and they have always
worked with any OTF font installed on the computer, assuming the font
has the required glyphs properly encoded with the correct Unicode
values. I need to read up more on exactly what Graphite is.

#42

Hi :slight_smile:
Perhaps it needs to have the "Experimental features" enabled?  I'm not sure there even still is an option like that but i never knew quite what it did.  I think something to do with macros and other things that are not relevant to this thread but i'm not sure if it did anything for Extensions, fonts or layouts.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#43

John Jason Jordan wrote:

I'm also curious why this works only with the LinuxLibertineG
fonts. Adobe InDesign had these features 14 years ago, and
they have always worked with any OTF font installed on the
computer . . .

The reason is that Graphite and Opentype (OTF) are rival formats for providing advanced typographic features. Graphite (in my opinion) is a dead end. It was created by and is promoted by the Summer Institute of Linguistics, which offers four or five fonts in this format. Philipp Poll has created two Graphite fonts (Linux Libertine and Biolinum). That is the total stock of Graphite fonts on the planet. It seems exceedingly unlikely that there will ever be any more, mainly because it is so difficult to create them.

Opentype was promoted by Adobe and Microsoft but is now the subject of a formal international standard (under a slightly different name, Open Font Format). There are thousands of Opentype fonts, and the number is being constantly added to, not only because Opentype features are implemented in Adobe Indesign and Quark Xpress but also because it is relatively easy to create Opentype fonts, or to add Opentype features to existing fonts.

Of course the immediate problem for users of Libre Office is that it does not implement Opentype layout features––one of the biggest shortcomings of the program. When it will do so is anyone’s guess.

#44

I know that over the years, some features haven't worked with LO and OO. As time has gone by, more and more features have worked. I, too, have had problems with the ordinal numbers features, but regular superscripts work for me as do en-dashes.

Keep in mind that the typography toolbar is a graphical user interface option for gaining access to the features. I've found that, sometimes, it doesn't work as well as actually inserting the codes into the font name.

For example, I have the following in the font box of my Default Style (without the quotation marks).

"Linux Libertine G:onum=1&itlc=2&lith=0&ss05=1&ss04=1&dash=1&hang=1"

These codes do the following:

onum=1 (Turn on Old Style Numbering)
itlc=2 (Adjust the spacing around italics text) Without this, the italics text gets jammed up next to the adjacent Roman text.
lith=0 (Don't use a "Th" ligature) I just don't like the Th ligature.
ss05=1 (Turn on old style upper case W, like that found in Garamond. Wikipedia uses Linux Libertine G for its logo. Check it out)
ss04=1 (Use fancier ampersands)
dash=1 (Replace hyphens with n-dashes *while typing* and after hitting the space bar after the hyphen)
hang=1 (Hanging punctuation. A really neat feature when using justified margins)

I find this a more effective way of applying the features, instead of using the toolbar, especially for style-wide features. Only if I want to apply direct formatting to a small selection of text do I use the typography toolbar.

As to comparing this to Adobe InDesign, that program is simply accessing the advanced features found in *some* OpenType fonts (OTF). Not all OTF have all the features, but if they have them, InDesign can access them, while LO cannot.

As I understand it, Libertine G was designed for use with Graphite, which is an alternative technology to OTF.

Also be careful about mixing methods. For example, if you want to apply small caps to Libertine G, do *not* select "small caps" in the LO Font dialog box. Doing so will generate the fake generated small caps that are too light. To get to Libertine's small caps, either select it from the typography toolbar, or enter "smcp=1" in the font name as in "Linux Libertine G:smcp=1"

It all takes some practice to get used to it, but keep at it. It's worth it.

Virgil

#45

Does anyone have a complete list of these codes? I haven't been able to find
one after a search in obvious places such as the Libertine site.

Thanks,

#46

They are at <http://www.numbertext.org/linux/fontfeatures.pdf>

If you click on the Help button on the typography toolbar, it automatically takes to to this website.

Virgil

#47

For me, I try to stay away from fonts that require me to pay for them.
If it came with an OS, that is one thing, but if I have to pay for them
myself for each and every style, like you do with Adobe's fonts, than no
thanks.

I do have an older Adobe font library, since I was given it to deal with
a large, long, project over 10 years ago.

You can get free versions of your fonts, or very good look-a-likes,
online at various sites. I have used "Schoolbook" and Garamond before
though. I believe Minion is an Adobe font. I will have to check about
Goudy Old Style. I think I have used it before.

Were you talking about Times Roman or just Roman for the font name. I
have a font that is called "Roman", and it is a serif font. For those
who do not know much about fonts, all of this may be a little confusing
to them. Well, if you have a large font collection, it gets worse some
times. That is why I believe that the sites that give you good
substitution font options for ones that you do not have can be a good
thing for people.

As I stated before, if you are going to have something published, find
out which font[s] they use and then give then your document/manuscript
in that font, if they do not want a plain text file.

I have not worked on this for over a year, but here is a sample from my
"work in progress" 50+ page font substitution guide. I have a lot of
formatting and editing to do before I go out and find more. I even have
a list that tells you which Windows installed fonts match Mac installed
fonts, but that was created many years ago and no longer up-to-date.

The first name is the font and the list is replacement types. I get
this information from various online sources, so I do not really know
how good they are. In the document, it is in 2 columns, but sometimes
emails mes that up.

Many of the font names I never heard of, while others I have.

#48

Keep in mind that the typography toolbar is a graphical user interface
option for gaining access to the features. I've found that, sometimes, it
doesn't work as well as actually inserting the codes into the font name.

I discovered that whilst playing with it.

For example, I have the following in the font box of my Default Style
(without the quotation marks).

"Linux Libertine G:onum=1&itlc=2&lith=0&ss05=1&ss04=1&dash=1&hang=1"

That is similar to what I want it to do for me. But I can't seem to
get the italic function to work. I've tried making the value 0, 1, and
2, and can see absolutely no difference, even when using the example
in the help page ('a <i>leaf</i> louse').

I'm using Ubuntu 13.04 with Cinnamon 1.8.8 (no Unity for me!) and LO
4.0.2.2. I'm using Linux Libertine G. The only two extensions
installed are 'Presentation Minimizer 1.0.4' (default) and 'Typography
toolbar 0.5'. Does something else have to be installed?

These codes do the following:

onum=1 (Turn on Old Style Numbering)
itlc=2 (Adjust the spacing around italics text) Without this, the italics
text gets jammed up next to the adjacent Roman text.
lith=0 (Don't use a "Th" ligature) I just don't like the Th ligature.
ss05=1 (Turn on old style upper case W, like that found in Garamond.
Wikipedia uses Linux Libertine G for its logo. Check it out)
ss04=1 (Use fancier ampersands)
dash=1 (Replace hyphens with n-dashes *while typing* and after hitting the
space bar after the hyphen)
hang=1 (Hanging punctuation. A really neat feature when using justified
margins)

I find this a more effective way of applying the features, instead of using
the toolbar, especially for style-wide features. Only if I want to apply
direct formatting to a small selection of text do I use the typography
toolbar.

I agree.

One thing that would really improve the toolbar would be shading to
indicate which options are selected. As it is now, the best way to
determine selected options is to look at the Font Selector and read
what is there.

#49

I think you'll need to upgrade LO to 4.0.5. When I was running 4.0.2 on my Linux Mint system, the "itlc" feature didn't work for me either. After I upgraded to LO 4.0.5, it began working. Don't ask me why.

Virgil

#50

Why? :slight_smile:

Thanks for the information.

#51

I've never paid money for a font. Not only do I not want to have to spend
money, I want to know that my fonts are available on all the machines I use.
At least here in America, font files are treated as computer software and
subject to copyright protection even though the font design itself is not
protected. I want freedom of use as well as freedom from price.

"Times New Roman" is the title of the version of Times that comes standard with Windows.

"Palatino Linotype" also comes standard with Windows. It is probably my
favorite standard Windows font. While I'm not allowed to copy it, it will
already exist on any Windows machine I use.

URW has a set of classic fonts that are free. They include

    URWPalladio L -- a clone of Palatino
    CenturySchL -- a clone of Century Schoolbook
    GaramondNo8 -- an excellent classic Garamond
    NimbusRomanNo9 -- a clone of Times
    URW BookmanL -- a clone of Bookman, a font often used in children's
books.

I downloaded the URW fonts many years ago. Since then, I've had difficulty finding them again online.

Of course, Linux Libertine G is free, as we've discussed at length.

The free OFL Sorts Mill Goudy is an excellent approximation of Goudy Old
Style

Minion Pro is a font that comes bundled with Adobe Reader. It's an excellent
OpenType font full of expert glyphs. However, I've never quite come to grips
with how it works on a Windows machine. When Reader is installed, Minion Pro
is installed within the Adobe Reader folder, so that the font is only
available for files opened with Reader. I've seen nothing in Adobe's
licensing materials that clarify whether the user may copy the font into the
Windows\Fonts folder for use with the entire system.

While I've never paid for fonts, many years ago, I purchased WordPerfect 7.
it was a great deal; $29.95 with a $30.00 rebate. While I have long since
abandoned the program, it came bundled with hundreds of fonts, mostly by
Bitstream. Some of my favorites, which I still use, are:

Iowan Old Style
Matt Antique BT
New Baskerville BT
Century Schoolbook BT

Virgil