Spreadsheets not keeping correct formulas and showing jewish?

users
#1

Hi Guys,

Running 4.1.3.2 Libreoffice, on Win 7 64Bit, and having a few annoyances??

i have a multi sheet document, page one has some dates on it, and these
dates are then grabbed by the following sheets to make the dates work on
them etc??

sometimes i load up the document, and the formula's all go to pot

I put the start date of the year that the user wants, and then just select
another cell and say "= B4 + 7 "

but it keeps coming up with

=SUM('View Kitchen'.KY16)

which is sheet that should be getting the information from this area..

and now i went in to alter the format of the cell
ie Date details "NNNND MMMM YYYY" giving me " Monday 6 October 2014"

but now want to shorten the date down to "mon 6 oct 2014", but its now
telling me options for jewish?? ie " [~jewish]NNNND MMMM YYYY" i know i can
alter the details, but does anyone have any ideas as to why my cells change
from what they should be? or why i now have jewish in there as well??

cheers for any help.

Phil

#2

Hi Tom

i forgot to add, the first time i saw the corruption was on OSX 10.6.8
running LO 3.X (cant remember), but that was only opening the file, not
saving, so i decided not to use that one again...

do you save locally or Dropbox or somthing else?

cheers
Phil

#3

Phil,

Yeah. I sure do know this problem, too. For many months.

I can't see the pattern. I can't seem to reduce the matter to a simple demonstration so I can file a bug report. I've simply given up for now. I just fix things and keep on sailing.

Whatever it is is pervasive, highly corrupting, AND most people never see it, so it never gets fixed. I deal with it multiple times a day, day after day, week after week....

Tom

#4

UPDATE: So sorry. I stupidly forgot to include info. about my operating environment - it's Kubuntu Linux 14.04 and I'm running LO Version: 4.3.0.2
Build ID: 14ed55896fdfcb93ff437b85c4f3e1923d2b1409. We are, of course, talking about Calc.

t.

#5

... and now i went in to alter the format of the cell ie Date details "NNNND MMMM YYYY" giving me "Monday 6 October 2014" but now want to shorten the date down to "mon 6 oct 2014", but its now telling me options for jewish?? ie " [~jewish]NNNND MMMM YYYY" i know i can alter the details, but does anyone have any ideas as to why my cells change from what they should be? or why i now have jewish in there as well?

Yes and no. There are a few things worth knowing.

o The definition of ODF says that the format code is "a sequence of characters with an implementation-defined meaning", so clearly it can be different in different standards-respecting applications. So formats such as "NNNND MMMM YYYY" are not saved as such in ODF document files. Instead, it seems that three things are saved: the date in ISO standard form (2014-10-06), the actual text as displayed (Monday 6 October 2014), and a description in different terms of your chosen format - such things as:

<number:day-of-week number:style="long" />
<number:text />
<number:day />
<number:text />
<number:month number:style="long" number:textual="true" />
<number:text />
<number:year number:style="long" />

When you reopen a document, the necessary formats must be reconstituted from this information in the file.

o Dates in particular are reconstituted with reference to the current locale. If, for example, I enter today's date (6 July) in my UK locale, it is displayed naturally as 06/07/14. If I save that in a document and reopen it in a US locale, the format is automatically reconstituted differently, with the same cell being displayed instead as 07/06/14.

o It seems that some formats that have been used or appeared automatically but perhaps are no longer needed are nevertheless saved in the document.

So I think some of this could be explained by this document having been opened and resaved on a system with locale set to Hebrew.

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker

#6

I save to my Dropbox. Don't think that's relevant, though. Can't figure how
it would be.

Tom

#7

Hi Brian

I have just opened the file in question on my Imac at home 10.6.8 running LO 4.2.4.2.
The default User interface is English USA, Local Setting is UK, and default currency is GBP, ill check the laptop & works imac tomorrow for specifics etc

The alterations i did earlier after i sent the first email are still intact :slight_smile:

I understand that the NNNDDD etc are not stored with in the format, but just wondered where the jewish annotations came into effect? ive never used them in the past, my laptop is setup for UK english, and it was all working fine last time i looked at that particular area? And there definatly was no jewish annotation in there?

the top reference in the list of pre-set annotations mentioned above is
[~jewish]NNNND MMMM YYYY, and in the format box it is "Friday 22 Tevet 5760" and in the preview box it is "Monday 9 Tammuz 5774", i dont even know if thats correct? or if the jewish calendar works on a different format?? If there are any jewish memebers out there reading this, let me know please :slight_smile:
There appears to be 10 with in the list, that appeared, and the one that i defined manually "NN D" appears after them?

ill check with my works mac in a bit, i know i opened the file there, its running ver 3, ill double check its set for UK etc, but i normally make a point of changing the locale to UK, saying that it was a long time ago Ver 3 came out, and i cant remote log in to check etc.
I do know that was not the cause of the corruption, as i emailed the file over to a collegue to review the work, and he said the formula made no sense, so i loaded it on the Ver 3 at work, and saw the corruption etc.

I have also as a test just copied the cell into a new spreadsheet, and it took over the jewish annotation?
i then created a new spreadsheet, and just entered a date, and changed its format, and there was no jewish annotation?

but ive never used any other computer apart from the laptop to open the file, ive copied/emailed to others or opened from dropbox, but not saved it, apart from the one time mentioned above, when the corruption had already occured.

I was just looking for insights as to whether anyone else has had the problem? i just dont want to go much further, and loose the lot, thinking about it, ill see how many revisions i can go back on dropbox, and see when it happened...

Sorry guys if some doesnt make sense, my eyes are hurting, and its late, and i was a tad annoyed earlier when my boss said i want those sheets and im like ARRRRGGGHHHHHH

cheers
Phil

#8

... and now i went in to alter the format of the cell ie Date details "NNNND MMMM YYYY" giving me "Monday 6 October 2014" but now want to shorten the date down to "mon 6 oct 2014", but its now telling me options for jewish?? ie " [~jewish]NNNND MMMM YYYY" i know i can alter the details, but does anyone have any ideas as to why my cells change from what they should be? or why i now have jewish in there as well?

Yes and no. There are a few things worth knowing.

o The definition of ODF says that the format code is "a sequence of characters with an implementation-defined meaning", so clearly it can be different in different standards-respecting applications. So formats such as "NNNND MMMM YYYY" are not saved as such in ODF document files. Instead, it seems that three things are saved: the date in ISO standard form (2014-10-06), the actual text as displayed (Monday 6 October 2014), and a description in different terms of your chosen format - such things as:

<number:day-of-week number:style="long" />
<number:text />
<number:day />
<number:text />
<number:month number:style="long" number:textual="true" />
<number:text />
<number:year number:style="long" />

When you reopen a document, the necessary formats must be reconstituted from this information in the file.

o Dates in particular are reconstituted with reference to the current locale. If, for example, I enter today's date (6 July) in my UK locale, it is displayed naturally as 06/07/14. If I save that in a document and reopen it in a US locale, the format is automatically reconstituted differently, with the same cell being displayed instead as 07/06/14.

o It seems that some formats that have been used or appeared automatically but perhaps are no longer needed are nevertheless saved in the document.

So I think some of this could be explained by this document having been opened and resaved on a system with locale set to Hebrew.

I understand that the NNNDDD etc are not stored with in the format, but just wondered where the jewish annotations came into effect?

If I understand you correctly, these are just appearing as possible formats in the Format Cells dialogue. If so, I don't think you should be too worried about them. I don't claim to understand all the aspects of locale settings, which exist separately for operating systems (including individual user settings) as well as for applications, such as LibreOffice. If Calc thinks you might be helped by these offerings but you don't need them, there is no problem I can see

the top reference in the list of pre-set annotations mentioned above is [~jewish]NNNND MMMM YYYY, and in the format box it is "Friday 22 Tevet 5760" ...

That corresponds to Gregorian 31 December 1999, which is the date used for all format examples in the Format Cells dialogue.

... and in the preview box it is "Monday 9 Tammuz 5774", i don't even know if that's correct?

That's Monday 7 July 2014 in the Gregorian calendar, i.e. today.

... or if the Jewish calendar works on a different format?

Well, yes: it has a different origin, of course - a point in 3761 BC by the Gregorian calendar - as well as different month names, which don't correspond with Gregorian months since they are generally shorter and need additional "intercalary" months every two or three years to keep the calendar in step with the solar year.

I have also as a test just copied the cell into a new spreadsheet, and it took over the jewish annotation?

By default, pasting carries over formats as well as values. You can suppress this using Paste Special... .

I was just looking for insights as to whether anyone else has had the problem? i just don't want to go much further, and lose the lot, ...

The question of available formats doesn't affect your use of the spreadsheet, does it? I suspect it is a red herring and may have no connection with the other corruption you mentioned (about which I have no comment).

Brian Barker

#9

Hi Brian

Thanks for your help, our studies on other cultures at school was very vague, and as of yet, never needed to understand another calendar..

It could possibly be a red herring like you say, i just put 2 and 2 together, and came up with 5, maybe i should have used a spreadsheet :smiley:

Im running LO 3.4.4 on my works imac, and checking its a USA interface, UK Locale & Currency setting...

Just loaded up the document, and just checking the first sheet, the formulas seem to have been saved, and work ok, ill just keep an eye on it, and see what else happens.

Thanks again,

Phil

#10

Hi :slight_smile:
If you want pointers to find out about settings and configs for other
languages and/or countries then you might find the international
translators mailing list quite useful
L10n@Global.LibreOffice.Org

Sounds like Brian has helped you fix it already though :slight_smile: Congrats! :slight_smile:
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile: